ibr_adam09 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I had my engine rebuilt after I cracked a cylinder 4 a few months ago. I think I spend just under $4.3 grand with the shop. And another $600 on other miscellaneous stuff. But the motor itself got forged pistons, Manley rods, nitrated crank, new nitrated valves, oil pump, hone/bore/labor. Those are just some of the major things. Personally, a new block is just a $1800 setback and still at "square one", but I'm not stock and if you plan to stay stock then this is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Having had 3 different Subaru dealers rebuild my OEM engines over the years, I would NEVER trust them to build one if I were paying for it. ($89/hr is also very cheap for an hourly rate). -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" What kind of problems were you encountering down the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 What kind of problems were you encountering down the road? Let's see. My 05LGT developed a ringland issue at 50k miles. 60k they replaced the pistons and rebuilt the motor. At 85k it again developed low compression and oil consumption. They put a short block in and in the process ruined my rad and flywheel. This was all done under my warranty so I didn't pay to have it done and they replaced the rad and flywheel before giving me the car back. On my 2011 STi at 20k miles it also developed a ringland and main bearing issue. New short block under warranty. Had to return to the dealer several times to get it fixed, most notable they didn't tighten the turbo inlet down and it blew off when I was a few 100 miles from the dealer. Mind you my cars were bone stock in terms of the motor setup, so it wasn't an issue of mods causing the issues. On the lgt I only knew there was an issue because of increased oil consumption. On the STi my Blackstone lab tests showed an increase in brass which tipped us off to the main bearing issue. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 ^ let me guess, in both cases you got problems on #4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 ^ let me guess, in both cases you got problems on #4? All 3x it was number 4 cylinder ringland failure. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Just like me then . I have an issue in #4 though my issue may be valve related. I don't want to threadjack and start a debate here, but I mean it can't be the piston's fault in #4 since the piston and rings must be built to the exact same specs as the other 3. So the issue must come from either fuel delivery, ignition, or timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Just like me then . I have an issue in #4 though my issue may be valve related. I don't want to threadjack and start a debate here, but I mean it can't be the piston's fault in #4 since the piston and rings must be built to the exact same specs as the other 3. So the issue must come from either fuel delivery, ignition, or timing. Is your compression zero or is it lower than the others? Zero is usually a sign of a valve issue, low is usually a sign of ring land. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Is your compression zero or is it lower than the others? Zero is usually a sign of a valve issue, low is usually a sign of ring land. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" 10% leak through rings, read 30 psi less than #2. no 'puff puff' through oil filler, and no real sign of excessive oil being burnt. Both mechanics bets are on valve clearance (they're not Subaru gurus though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 10% leak through rings, read 30 psi less than #2. no 'puff puff' through oil filler, and no real sign of excessive oil being burnt. Both mechanics bets are on valve clearance (they're not Subaru gurus though). My money is on ring lands beginning to fail. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I told that to the mechanics but they said no ways due to no puffing through oil filler . Teardown should begin next week. Any other test you'd think of to help pinpoint rings or valves? Cause the mechanic is planning indeed to mostly work on the valves and leave the block alone. I posted an LV from last saturday here--> http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/compression-leak-down-question-187371p5.html?t=187371&page=5 sorry Byron for threadjacking . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06silvarubiLGT Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I don't mean to contribute to threadjacking, but aren't these reasons, why the EJ20 guys run fuel rails and lines? I think it was cyl #3 back then, correct me if Im wrong, that would lean out with higher than factory boost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 sorry Byron for threadjacking . That's ok, I've been checking out the current post. Just haven't felt the urge to say anything. Other than, Honda's have the same fuel starvation problem with #3 cylinder when you boost them. The air misses the #3 intake runner and you get detination, most Tuners know how to fix that. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
careercadaver Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Good info here! Thanks for the link Max! If you were doing this again would you have gone with a built block after hearing all this? Not for power goals but for peace of mind... Getting ready to swap a shortblock myself...second guessing going new though...I always assumed that built blocks were more likely to fail but if this is a constant issue I fell I may be kidding myself to even bother with an OEM block... Edited March 13, 2013 by careercadaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) I will say the thought does cross my mind now and then. But the other thought is, It's all in the tune. I trust my Tuner, time will tell. Since my day's of high HP Honda day's, buddies with over 1100whp, the saying is the same, "it's all in the tune". I figure with his knowledge and background, I have a much better shot then staying on the OEM MAP. Hey my orginal engine ran fine being tuned for all those years, just used oil. The cylinder walls looked good if not great. I know I abused it early on so that's why I figured the rings were the issue, not that one broke, just scuffed the walls. See #2 cylinder in the pictures. Edited March 13, 2013 by Max Capacity 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutbackXT05 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Just to chime in. My oem motor cracked #2 & #4 ringlands at 84.5k miles. Put a 2012 ej257 in thinking sweet good for 350whp here i come. 3900 miles later at stg2 protuned cylinder 4 is toast again. This time i did forged pistons new bearings a bunch of other small things. For the same price as the oem block with me doing the labor. Oviously gonna be more pricey with a shop doing it but the bare basics are: New block ~$1800 Basic built block (bearings, forged pistons with machine work) ~900-1200. Its a different story when your paying someone else but of course gotta pay to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Just to chime in. My oem motor cracked #2 & #4 ringlands at 84.5k miles. Put a 2012 ej257 in thinking sweet good for 350whp here i come. 3900 miles later at stg2 protuned cylinder 4 is toast again. This time i did forged pistons new bearings a bunch of other small things. For the same price as the oem block with me doing the labor. Oviously gonna be more pricey with a shop doing it but the bare basics are: New block ~$1800 Basic built block (bearings, forged pistons with machine work) ~900-1200. Its a different story when your paying someone else but of course gotta pay to play. Even paying someone else to do it just going with forged pistons over stock will not put you in the poorhouse and you'll have a better base even if you don't mod it at all in my opinion. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibr_adam09 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Since we got this thread going again. How much should I be concerned if I decide to run a larger turbo with 25+ psi and e85 on 100mm pistons/ bore. Would you be concerned of cracking a cylinder wall ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellShadow70 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 max capacity, how can i contact you tuner? send pm. im in the bronx and im braking in my engine 130 miles, i have an ots map from cobb. I'll post my experience with my engine soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 http://legacygt.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/tuning-alliance-121.html tuningalliance@gmail.com Mike will get back to you. just tell him I sent you. Good Luck with your engine. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I know you have mentioned in other posts about this, but I searched and couldn't find them! When you installed your turbo to the uppipe you used bolts. Which specific bolt did you use and do you remember the thread pitch and diameter? I think it is the bolt the attaches the turbo bracket to the block but I can't remember. Thank you for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shello007 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 All 3x it was number 4 cylinder ringland failure. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Just like me then . I have an issue in #4 though my issue may be valve related. I don't want to threadjack and start a debate here, but I mean it can't be the piston's fault in #4 since the piston and rings must be built to the exact same specs as the other 3. So the issue must come from either fuel delivery, ignition, or timing. Now y'all have me worried. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/feeler-sorta-211057.html?p=4507845 .Now I'm really leaning towards starting anew. Can't be driving afraid for Mr. Piston #4 to rear its ugly head. Good info here! Thanks for the link Max! If you were doing this again would you have gone with a built block after hearing all this? Not for power goals but for peace of mind... Getting ready to swap a shortblock myself...second guessing going new though...I always assumed that built blocks were more likely to fail but if this is a constant issue I fell I may be kidding myself to even bother with an OEM block... Pretty much same predicament I was faced with...and felt like the forged pistons, though more reliable and giving peace of mind, would require a lot more maintenance and monitoring. Also, sorry to thread jack/ resurrect old thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Since we got this thread going again. How much should I be concerned if I decide to run a larger turbo with 25+ psi and e85 on 100mm pistons/ bore. Would you be concerned of cracking a cylinder wall ? Assuming all your supporting mods are reliable: 100% yes or 100% no or anything inbetween, depending ENTIRELY on the tune. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibr_adam09 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Good to know. When the time comes, I know a good tuner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted July 18, 2013 Moderators Share Posted July 18, 2013 Read this entire thread today. And paid for a short block with a spun bearing "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 I think I've said here before...it's all in the tune. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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