rapture Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 i dont know whats funnier this entire thread or turbodogs location stating the ignore posse ...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWSPECB Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I wish somebody could actually figure out where he is from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapture Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 and for the record i would NEVER cut my springs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated broknindarkagain Posted July 13, 2012 I Donated Share Posted July 13, 2012 You sir......you're a fking idiot. Wanted to lower the front of the Spec.B very slightly. See this thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/lowering-front-end-bit-without-losing-suspension-traveli-181505.html So, I ended up doing this last night. First, attempted with struts on the car - I've had other cars with enough space to unseat the spring with spring compressors. No dice, not even close to possible. Pulled the struts and went at it with spring compressors and impact wrench. These springs have a huge amount of preload when mounted and it is a fairly short travel strut, so very tricky to work with. Scuffed up the struts a bit getting them off. Looked at the springs. There seems to be about 3/4 of a coil at the bottom that has a bit of a flatter angle to it to seat on the strut. This is all fully compressed and then some when mounted. I measured 6" around the outside, this was a 1/4 coil, cut this off with a large cuttoff wheel, and rounded smooth. Applied black paint. It was quite difficult getting the springs back on with two normal spring compressors. When you catch two coils, the compressors interfere with the either the top perches or lower perches. Springs took about 3" of compression and several tries to get mounted and the top hats on straight. Still need to do an alignment this afternoon but I drove it a bit and let it settle. The difference is extremely subtle, about 1/4", maybe 3/8" lower. Wheel gaps are closer to even F/R. No noticeable change in ride. Works for me! I just get a kick out of how frowned upon this is in the subaru community, with virtually no basis in reality. BUT I DID IT. Do any of you guys actually know anything about spring theory? I know more about the design and modification of springs than everyone in this thread, combined. Period. Feel free to go off and understand the theory, do the math (or run some senarios through a spring calculator), then tell me how cutting 6" (in material aka "wire" length) off a strut spring does anything else than result in a less than 5% increase in spring rate and 1/4"ish drop. I dare you. No, the truth is that the vast majority of people in car modification communities simply repeat what other people tell them, without having any sort of true understanding. The "cut springs bad" myth started in the 90's, from what I recall. People were massively cutting springs or torching them to acheive a ~3" drop. Obviously this is not going to work well, and people identified cut springs as entirely wrong, which is far from the reality. Truth is, if the spring will still sit properly when cut, it is very easy to calculate the new length, spring rate and drop for a certain cut. Cutting a 1/4 coil is a very minor and virtually unnoticeable change. Fail out of engineering school much? Did you learn about springs.....? So, get out your textbox, measure a subaru strut spring, and figure out what cutting a 1/4 coil off the bottom is going to do. I dare you. Great questions. - I just cut it off. There is roughtly a 3/4 coil of semi dead spring at the bottom when free. Plently to cut and still have it sit fine. - I had to compress the spring 3" with spring compressors and a impact wrench to get the hats back on. So, yes. At full droop there is nearly a full coil seated, and it seats cleanly. - Entirely unnoticeable, it's less than a 5% change in rate, tough to say exactly because it's basicly dead spring being cut off. So call it 0% to 5% change. If you have "dead coils" (coils that are fully compressed when on car and weighted) to cut on a progressive spring, you will not be changing the main spring rate. In this case, it is a seemingly dead coil I am shortening, so that there is really no effective change in rate, but I can't say that conclusively. If you were to shorten a fully active coil by a 1/4 coil, you would increase the rate by about 5%. Hence the estimate. BTW, most percieved increases in spring rate from "proper lowering springs" are from the car being on the bump stops. -broknindarkagain My Current Project - Click Here COME AND TAKE IT "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Subscribed for the derp. sorry i'm late. I could suck start a snow blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted July 13, 2012 Mega Users Share Posted July 13, 2012 So turbodog = rapture? Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapture Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 seabass=follower/douche/troll makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodog Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 You sir......you're a fking idiot. Actually, I'm not. But those are some very impressive quoting skills you have there. The car and the springs are great and I didn't waste $200+ on some lowering springs so I could blow struts or ride on bump stops. One of the best mods $$$ wise I've ever done to a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowsports Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If springs were meant to be cut, they would come with marks and a statement from a manufacturer that this type of mod was ok. We all know you won't get this, and this has nothing to do with the 1990's. Regardless of your success this is not a recommended way to change the height or handling characteristics of your car. The stock spec B suspension is already wonderful. This is one of those can't take it back mods that affects wheel clearance and camber. Great today with unknown results and/or compromised personal safety down the road. I won't question your expertise, but I disagree 100% with your choice to do this. With all due respect, an aftermarket spring would have been the way to go in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted July 13, 2012 I Donated Share Posted July 13, 2012 If springs were meant to be cut, they would come with marks and a statement from a manufacturer that this type of mod was ok. We all know you won't get this, and this has nothing to do with the 1990's. Regardless of your success this is not a recommended way to change the height or handling characteristics of your car. The stock spec B suspension is already wonderful. This is one of those can't take it back mods that affects wheel clearance and camber. Great today with unknown results and/or compromised personal safety down the road. I won't question your expertise, but I disagree 100% with your choice to do this. With all due respect, an aftermarket spring would have been the way to go in this case. Don't try to reason with him. He is convinced he is right and nothing you say will change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 You sir......you're a fking idiot. Careful... he's a report-happy idiot! You don't want to make his made-up publicized ignore list--do you?!? Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 He's Swedish. Suddenly it all makes sense. http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/member.php?u=9625 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted July 13, 2012 Mega Users Share Posted July 13, 2012 seabass=follower/douche/troll makes sense I am most certainly not a follower, turbodog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrw Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Careful... he's a report-happy idiot! You don't want to make his made-up publicized ignore list--do you?!? Wait, I thought he just had a 6th sense that would alert him when ignored post are getting harsh?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Wait, I thought he just had a 6th sense that would alert him when ignored post are getting harsh?? That's giving him far too much credit--he can't even comprehend information typed into a computer and delivered directly into his eyeballs. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodog Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 If springs were meant to be cut, they would come with marks and a statement from a manufacturer that this type of mod was ok. We all know you won't get this, and this has nothing to do with the 1990's. Regardless of your success this is not a recommended way to change the height or handling characteristics of your car. The stock spec B suspension is already wonderful. This is one of those can't take it back mods that affects wheel clearance and camber. Great today with unknown results and/or compromised personal safety down the road. I won't question your expertise, but I disagree 100% with your choice to do this. With all due respect, an aftermarket spring would have been the way to go in this case. Wow, you sound like an expert! Can you let me know where the statement about reflashing ecu's is? Do you understand that aftermarket springs are a FAR more drastic and potentially damaging change? I must say though - this is the first time I've ever heard of the stock suspension on ANY subaru being described as "wonderful". WOW!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrw Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 That's giving him far too much credit--he can't even comprehend information typed into a computer and delivered directly into his eyeballs. But... Turbodog knows all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelwatts Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I dont think you started this thread to show a mod you made. I think that you made this thread to start an argument. By the title you gave it, you knew that it was going to ause some drama. If in knowing that, why make a thread unless it was your intent? Call me crazy but this thread and all of your comments have been useless in actually giving real information about a modification. In no way has this thread been or ever will be a useful resource tool for future reference. The only benefit of it still being on here is to provide a place for people to show newbs what not to do. In my experience, if everyone says something stinks, it does. Let's forget the fact that you went cheap on what is a very desirable car that many others would have purchased and modified correctly; you started this thread with the sole purpose of arguing and trying to show off your overwhelming knowledge of spring steel and it's applications. As far as I'm concerned, you have failed to convince me that cutting springs is a legitimate alternative to aftermarket options. And judging by all of your other rediculously post, I say that you have nothing intelligent to add to the community. I move for any an all of your post that have not been closed to be done so in a swift manner and a permanent ban place on your account. These other people may like to argue in a childish manner from time to time, but you sir, incite these post riots and cause nothin but trouble. Best of luck ruining what was a great car and I will no longer contribute to your idiotic ramblings. I'm a native of South Carolina. I am a dying breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapture Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh3iGmlIDflu6FGZzD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 ...but... what about spring theory? Dismissing fact and logic? Wisdom in the form of selected excerpts from Wikipedia? Do these things mean nothing to you? Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodog Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I dont think you started this thread to show a mod you made. I think that you made this thread to start an argument. By the title you gave it, you knew that it was going to ause some drama. If in knowing that, why make a thread unless it was your intent? Call me crazy but this thread and all of your comments have been useless in actually giving real information about a modification. In no way has this thread been or ever will be a useful resource tool for future reference. The only benefit of it still being on here is to provide a place for people to show newbs what not to do. In my experience, if everyone says something stinks, it does. Let's forget the fact that you went cheap on what is a very desirable car that many others would have purchased and modified correctly; you started this thread with the sole purpose of arguing and trying to show off your overwhelming knowledge of spring steel and it's applications. As far as I'm concerned, you have failed to convince me that cutting springs is a legitimate alternative to aftermarket options. And judging by all of your other rediculously post, I say that you have nothing intelligent to add to the community. I move for any an all of your post that have not been closed to be done so in a swift manner and a permanent ban place on your account. These other people may like to argue in a childish manner from time to time, but you sir, incite these post riots and cause nothin but trouble. Best of luck ruining what was a great car and I will no longer contribute to your idiotic ramblings. Thank you for you pontification. If you actually read my posts with an open mind, you'll see that I describe the mod in detail, difficulties encountered, and the benefits. At the end of the day, people are just mad that I basicly called them fools for installing lowering springs, which IMHO are one of the worst mods you can do to a car. Paying $200+ for springs that put you on the bump stops and/or blow your struts is not a good mod IMHO. It's like questioning their religion or something.......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWSPECB Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If you actually read my posts with an open mind, you'll see that I describe the mod in detail, difficulties encountered, and the benefits. why would we do that? You have already proven to be a complete idiot with juuuuuust about every single thing you post. Plus cutting springs is well known to be one of the stupidest things you could ever do to any car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-lo Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 so if putting lowering springs on a car is one of the worst things in the world you can do to your car, then why is it that all of these credible car shops do it? are you saying they are intentially destroying their customers cars? 258k miles - Stock engine/minor suspension upgrades/original shocks/rear struts replaced at 222k/4 passenger side wheel bearings/3 clutches/1 radiator/3 turbos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted July 13, 2012 I Donated Share Posted July 13, 2012 so if putting lowering springs on a car is one of the worst things in the world you can do to your car, then why is it that all of these credible car shops do it? are you saying they are intentially destroying their customers cars? Also, why DON'T they cut springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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