What did you do to your Outback today? V3

[KZJonny]

Could be possible to prove out rings being okay, with a leakdown test?

If you're getting 110psi, that's not great, clearly, but it should be enough pressure to have a listen and see if the air is escaping mainly via the exhaust or into the crankcase?

Assuming all other seals are good, you should be able to hear if there is hissing noise coming from the oil fill/dipstick or exhaust. Mechanics stethescope could be handy here.

Still might need that new block, but as @xt2005bonbon says above, you may not be at the point where you have to condemn that one. (On the other hand, how much is a rebuilt 253?? I know at least around me, complete scrapyard engines are common and cheap, so you'd be paying for rings/seals/gaskets + labour? Might not be so bad to get a practically new engine...)

[Febreze Mee]

Since re-adjustment yesterday, it has not been present. I'm sure it will come back in the next couple hundred miles. It was becoming worse when the engine was fully warmed up vs cold (still there though). Idle was horrible. Intermittent while putting around town/freeways.

What do you think?

[xt2005bonbon]

From my experience, if it gets worse when warmed up, then there is a higher probability that it is in fact a valve (or valve clearance) issue. When the engine is fully warmed up, the exhaust valve stem slightly elongates due to heat, thereby decreasing valve clearance. So if there was no or very little clearance to begin with, then once the engine warms up the valve would not be able to fully seat. Result: poor seal = poor compression = misfire.

For piston rings, it is usually the opposite: rings expand when the engine is hot, thereby providing a better seal. So, if you had a ring issue, then it would usually be more prominent when the engine is cold (poor seal/compression = misfire).

Edited February 7, 2023 by xt2005bonbon

[Febreze Mee]

But compression was taken cold.

 

7 hours ago, KZJonny said:

Could be possible to prove out rings being okay, with a leakdown test?

If you're getting 110psi, that's not great, clearly, but it should be enough pressure to have a listen and see if the air is escaping mainly via the exhaust or into the crankcase?

Assuming all other seals are good, you should be able to hear if there is hissing noise coming from the oil fill/dipstick or exhaust. Mechanics stethescope could be handy here.

Still might need that new block, but as @xt2005bonbon says above, you may not be at the point where you have to condemn that one. (On the other hand, how much is a rebuilt 253?? I know at least around me, complete scrapyard engines are common and cheap, so you'd be paying for rings/seals/gaskets + labour? Might not be so bad to get a practically new engine...)

Remember it's just Cyl #3 with low compression. 
 

Rebuilt long blocks can be had be had between $3500-$4500. I've found one at Sunwest for $3000 + $500 core charge. But instead of a naked long block it has a new oil pump, water pump, and timing belt.

Used long blocks (even low mileage) can be had for $1200-$2000. New head gaskets ($60) would need to be applied, all other gaskets would need to be resealed, heads machined ($500), new timing belt/water pump ($300) before I even felt comfortable putting it in the car. And even then, the short block will still have 45K - 70K miles on the internals. I rather pay the extra couple hundred up front for fresh-everything. 

[KZJonny]

4 minutes ago, Febreze Mee said:

Remember it's just Cyl #3 with low compression. 

Yup. Leakdown test is performed one cylinder at a time, or at least it is with the inexpensive OTC gauge set that I have. It would still give you a better idea where it is leaking from (and how badly/quickly) without speculating based on how things feel.

And I definitely see what you mean about the cost of paying up front... Price on a block in the yards around me is ~$350 CAD for just the long block and $475 CAD for a loaded long block, and they can be found with not so many kms. on them, but you may have to do some looking. That is a lot less money than $1200 USD. So yeah, not comparing apples to apples.

If it was my NA, I would probably go the route of slapping on new parts, +turbo head gaskets etc..  but having a rebuilt engine would increase my confidence. I'm not hard on mine tho since it's the daily commuter and trailer hauler, it doesn't have to work all that hard.

[xt2005bonbon]

Febreze, what was the actual valve clearance on #3 before you adjusted it? And how long has the car been acting up?

Edited February 7, 2023 by xt2005bonbon

[Febreze Mee]

I'll take a look into a leakdown test. I really would like a definitive answer for complete closure at this point. I am NOT nice to my car  I give so much to it, and I ask that much of it in return.  It is also my daily, but it would be nice to enjoy some of the HPDE I want to with it when I want as well, so a new motor with select modifications in the name of preservation are worth the investment. Either way, y'all will be the first to know

[Febreze Mee]

1 hour ago, xt2005bonbon said:

Febreze, what was the actual valve clearance on #3 before you adjusted it? And how long has the car been acting up?

I didn't get a hard number. It was over .294mm which is the maximum clearance the FSM allows. We tested the gap with the next size up feeler gauge (.30mm) and it slid in with ease). 

[xt2005bonbon]

So, 0.294mm was the clearance BEFORE you adjusted anything? If yes,  then your clearance was never tight then. 

I just checked the FSM and, as you said, the exhaust valve clearance spec for your engine should be 0.25mm +/- 0.04 mm.

 

On both of my cars, I had a couple of exhaust valves with literally 0mm of clearance! Luckily, I caught it early and was able to rectify the issue without having a burned valve. Symptom was misfires at warm idle (although one car also did it at cold idle ).

[Febreze Mee]

I've adjusted them twice now. The very first time I adjusted, there was 0mm of play, and I adjusted to 0.254. I then drove 375mi, and re-checked the adjustment, where I then found the valve lash to be greater than .294, and I re-adjusted for the second, and final, time then (at which point it didn't really matter that I did).

I had been driving around on the misfire for up to 1,000mi before adjusting the valve lash. I suppose it could be very possible that I burnt an exhaust valve?

[xt2005bonbon]

Ah OK. So you initially did have zero mm of clearance.

I said I caught mine 'early' but I know I did drive with the misfire issue for way more than 1000 miles. How is your car behaving now? Do you use BtSsm to keep an eye on things? If yes, how is the misfire count at idle on that cylinder?

[jonnyt88]

I bought my OBXT back a week ago...  The hatch struts do absolutely nothing,  the ebrake hopefully either needs adjustment and/or some PB/WD40 from road salt. It either has an exhaust leak or I'm spoiled driving an A8.  Dash is scratched with some chunks missing. 

But the important stuff seems solid.  has a newer <100k mi engine from a WRX though not the VF52,  which was also resealed and TB done.   no rusting/rot which is abnormal for 180k miles in Central NY

She should be a good tow pig / hardware store trips, heavy shitty snow, camping, biking, adventure vehicle. 

Its your standard looking silver 08 so I won't bother with pictures for now. 

 

[rebourne]

How long was it out of your possession?  And how did it come back to you?  If you don't mind sharing.

[jonnyt88]

12 hours ago, rebourne said:

How long was it out of your possession?  And how did it come back to you?  If you don't mind sharing.

19-ish months?   I think May would have been 2-years.  It happened to be for sale locally for a good price.  I've been on the look out for a utility vehicle but also didn't want something utterly boring.  I do miss driving Subarus in the winter so I've been eyeballing them,  and the outback came up for sale,  still kinda local.  I checked it out and said why not.  

When I owned it the steering rack went back and I had it replaced with an STi rack, I still have the GT Spec steering wheel in the garage,  I like the suspension setup I had put on it,  I did all the calipers around 140k miles and I know the guy that did the engine replacement.   I'm mediocre mechanically savvy so it helps I am quite familiar with the car. 

It compliments my fleet of vehicles. 

 

 

[kzr750r1]

Transmission work done. Transgo kit installed. TCU learning.

Logs sent to tuner for stumble/hesitation just as boost is just starting to build. Tuner is OOO till the 15th.

[kzr750r1]

New map received on the 14th. Will let it run for a bit before commenting more on that front.

TransGo seems will always have a 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 hard shift. All others are settling.

Get on the pipe and man it shifts hard.

Will be ordering an new drive shaft this year I feel.

[xt2005bonbon]

23 minutes ago, kzr750r1 said:

New map received on the 14th. Will let it run for a bit before commenting more on that front.

TransGo seems will always have a 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 hard shift. All others are settling.

Get on the pipe and man it shifts hard.

Will be ordering an new drive shaft this year I feel.

Why new drive shaft? You have some nasty vibrations on acceleration?

[kzr750r1]

No. Just be my luck to need one after 257K and upgrading everything else.

[kzr750r1]

Had a chance to drive the car a few hundred miles yesterday.

On the way back from the foothills was able to manage 24mpg through the valley.

Transmission is settling nicely. There is and probably always will be a hard 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 shift from time to time.

Dropped into the shop to check with the tuner on a drive check. We didn't have much time to mess around. Could not find any miss or stumble this time. Yet it's still there. Just before boost starts to build it's hesitating/not smooth.

Potential is I need some new injectors, yet no misfires logged. He didn't see any issues with the throttle body position sensor, all looked normal.

Need to take the car over to the Trans shop for their 500 mile checkup and warranty sign off.

 

[jonnyt88]

I drove mine and hauled away some garbage after spending a week out of town

I got a bit of a humming noise..  I don't think its the Sumitomo Ice Edges unless they are worn really funky nor the wheel bearings.  It hums regardless on/off/steady throttle, and even when in N at 45 mph+   It kinda drones which is hard to tell where its coming from.  Hope its not the rear diff.   

I also found out I have an unexpected intercooler sprayer.   The windshield washer hose from the drivers side to the middle is missing so it just shoots a stream of cleaner at the IC.   Gotta figure out what size hose that is. 

[kzr750r1]

Ordered a Turkylord T from Company23 and pondering a early STI FPR as documented here by covertrussian as options to help with the stumble. One thing at a time.

Will talk to the tuner about the AVCS timing. See what he has set in there. I can't see it since the tune is pass code protected.

Need it to stop raining before I get under the hood.

[rebourne]

KZR:
I have the stumble/hesitation between 2-3k on light throttle.  I just drive around it and pretend it's not there ("LA-LA-LA I can't hear you!")  Probably easier with a manual than with an auto.  I'll be curious if the STI FPR helps.

jonnyt88:
Swapping to another set of tires, if possible, would at least eliminate the snow tires being the source of the hum.

I took mine out hunting puddles in the torrential down pours we had last Friday.  I know a couple streets with terrible drainage.  I got a couple good whoppers where the water came over both sides of the fenders and completely blinded me.  Completely juvenile fun.  Please-don't-hydro-lock-please-don't-hydro-lock. 

But on the downside, my dash is developing a bad case of the sticky dash.  My windshield sun shade was stuck to the dash at the bottom.

[kzr750r1]

I'm having a hard time ignoring it. Will try things one at a time.

First get this vac line routed. See how that affects things.

Next try another pass with the tuner at ACVS timing. I want to get him in the car on the freeway so I can replicate it more than just a 10 min drive around the block.

If no go on either then go for FPR and another pass at AVCS.

[kzr750r1]

Did the VAC route last night with a spare blue T. No luck there. Did a ECUReset and waiting to see how the Learning View looks after the monitors are all clear. Daughter took it to school last night so there were more miles placed on it than my initial test post change. After the trans shop had it and new map installed all of the learning view were pegged as -7.10 for A, B and C.

I was not very happy seeing how they connected the IC clamp to the TB hose. Just a wee bit outside.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by kzr750r1

[jonnyt88]

Rebourne - that was my plan.  One of my buddies said I can toss on his summer WRX setup for a test run.

I tossed in the amazon hatch pistons.   They work good for <$40. I don't recommend waiting until both are shot to replace these.   It was a PITA to tackle this myself. 

I fixed my washer sprayers, so I'm no longer spraying fluid at the intercooler.   That can't be sanitary for the car!

I got to hoon her around in some snow,  it was a nice joyous feeling.   Especially since my daily's tires hit the first stage wear markers for deep snow effectiveness.  

Next up is the ebrake. It seems to barely do anything so hopefully a shower of PBBlaster with some WD40, and some adjusting and it will be all good.