The official 2020 Legacy thread

[Notorious]

Personally, I think the odds of the future Legacy platform having an electric drivetrain partnered with Tesla is higher than the odds of Subaru listening to any of the wants and desires mentioned in this thread.

 

I'd be all for it. Sticker prices will be high but California is basically paying people to buy electric cars now. If I had one it would lessen the guilt I experience thinking about my carbon footprint in my catless LGT zipping around the backroads and going through a full tank of gas in less than a week. No regrets either way though.

[thefultonhow]

We don't get that much snow, but when we do it's usually pretty nasty. Mainly road wise which don't always get plowed well, even in the city.

 

It's just hard to justify snow tires for the 3-4 snow falls a years here. Especially since we have 30-40*F degree swings in a days span. You guys might get more snow, heck it might get so packed down that it's actually easier to drive on, but you might not have a 60F day after it's been snowing all day.

 

All this means is, it's hard to justify snow tires PLUS they will wear out real quickly in the temp swings that we get. I personally got tired of getting stuck in the snow/sleet/ice in my 2wd cars. Plus not everyone has storage for spare tires, thus AWD makes it be good enough.

 

You're in VA. Where? I'm in Baltimore. Climate is not that much different from yours. Snow tires are worth it. I'd rather spend less on a 2WD vehicle and pay for another set of wheels and tires. The premium for the AWD Stinger was something like $2000. For under $1000, I have a set of wheels and tires that are going to outperform an AWD Stinger with all-seasons (to say nothing of the standard MPS4 summers) in any kind of winter weather. I drove in the snow today and my high-power RWD car was a rockstar on hilly uncleared roads.

 

BTW, even with temp swings, I've never had to replace snow tires due to low tread. I've replaced two sets because I ran them for six seasons each and you should run tires that are that old due to rubber deterioration, and one because of a blowout (and I ended up just putting the summer tires on after the blowout and selling that car a few months later anyway). It's unlikely that you're going to have to replace winter tires for low tread reasons unless you run them year-round.

 

The only way I can see anyone not having the space to store winter tires is if they live in a condo or apartment. Even most townhomes have a bit of storage in the basement, and if they don't, Rubbermaid sheds are on clearance at Lowes right now.

 

The catch here is that a full time AWD system is inherently stable and you have to push it quite a bit before it's misbehaving while a FWD or RWD system isn't and even simple actions like letting off the throttle can throw you into an unplanned direction.

 

You're talking about lift-throttle oversteer, which I have personally had happen on two AWD Subarus. Luckily, on one it was on an autocross course, so it didn't matter when I spun out (and BTW, that was on my 1990 2.2 wagon with 98 whp), and on the other, stability control kept it in line. AWD doesn't protect against that kind of thing.

 

Most of my accidents occurred in company cars where your given no choice in tyres or when you can change them.

 

"Most of my accidents"? How many accidents are we talking here?

 

I've had five accidents. Two of them were low-speed fender benders. Three of them (including one of the low-speed ones) were in the first year of driving, when I had zero talent and zero sense. None of them were because of the tires or the drive system. All of them were due to poor judgement or other negligence on my part.

 

I'm with Penguin here. I think you need to own your poor judgement and/or driving skills, and not blame the tires or the drive system.

 

Also, *you're

[covertrussian]

You're in VA. Where? I'm in Baltimore. Climate is not that much different from yours. Snow tires are worth it. I'd rather spend less on a 2WD vehicle and pay for another set of wheels and tires. The premium for the AWD Stinger was something like $2000. For under $1000, I have a set of wheels and tires that are going to outperform an AWD Stinger with all-seasons (to say nothing of the standard MPS4 summers) in any kind of winter weather. I drove in the snow today and my high-power RWD car was a rockstar on hilly uncleared roads.

 

I'm right by West VA, in the valley but still at 1300ft. I've never been to Baltimore so can't speak of it's climate compared to us. We do have a ton of hills around here, it really hones your stick driving skills .

 

I would gladly pay a $5k premium for an AWD version of the car and that's not even for snow related reasons. The dry traction of my Legacy, on all seasons, is superior then the dry traction of my FWD G20 on even half street half racing AD08's, on public roads. Legacy puts down 300whp so effortlessly, and you don't have to fight to keep the car from loosing control. While the FWD car is a freaking beast to handle even at 250whp, and it has "superior" multi-link front suspension too. I basically don't let the wife or anyone inexperienced borrow the G20, while I've lent the Legacy to a few regular people (rear non experienced drivers) and they loved it but said they would get arrested with such a fast car .

 

Another reason I prefer AWD is, more consistent tire wear in high power application. The G20 chews through tires like crazy. My last set of Cooper summer tires lasted me 6k miles total...

 

BTW, even with temp swings, I've never had to replace snow tires due to low tread. I've replaced two sets because I ran them for six seasons each and you should run tires that are that old due to rubber deterioration, and one because of a blowout (and I ended up just putting the summer tires on after the blowout and selling that car a few months later anyway). It's unlikely that you're going to have to replace winter tires for low tread reasons unless you run them year-round.

 

Doing a quick google search, I'm still returning plenty of results that warn against using snow tire on dry warm pavement. From accelerated wear to poor braking performance. Case and point, today we got snow and frozen rain, tomorrow it's forecasting high of 57F.

 

Speaking of today's weather: My Outback, with all seasons, with some wheel spin made up my 10* slopped driveway, and with enough speed did make it up a 15* driveway too. Now a friend with A/T tires kept his Xterra in RWD and made it up my driveway with even less effort. Thus I can see myself getting a set of A/T tires, which I can keep them on year round and can go deep into the woods off-roading/camping then too.

 

Now to you other point, I tend to drive less then 10k miles per year per car. That's actually another reason I try to keep the tire count down to, dry rot.

 

The only way I can see anyone not having the space to store winter tires is if they live in a condo or apartment. Even most townhomes have a bit of storage in the basement, and if they don't, Rubbermaid sheds are on clearance at Lowes right now.

 

Even with space being super cheap down here, people have different priorities, or space requirements. I know people that ended up getting rid of their half worn summer tires when winter came and after they installed all seasons. They simply didn't care to have tires taking up room in their garages.

 

I personally already have 8 spare tires taking up room in my garage and basement and that's for my autocross car alone (can't store my AD08's below 25f). Now if I get winter tires for both of my daily Subaru's, I would now have to find space for 8 more tires/wheels.

 

Even though I do have the space, I honestly I dread the thought of having to swap out tires on two more cars every fall/spring.

[Tronic]

Accidents happen a couple were not even my fault and unavoidable. Most occurred way back when I didn't have the road experience coupled with the fact that cars made in the 1980's were really not that great.

 

One of the big improvements was ABS braking and at least 3 of my accidents could have been avoided with a car equipped with this and decent tyres in the wet.

 

I think anyone would agree, handling of my Subaru is simply out of sight in comparison to FWD cars of the 1980's. I had a 1984 Ford and an old Toyota KE70 wagon, the handling is laughable and if I jumped into one of those now I would probably kill myself at the first corner.

 

Statistics will prove that accident rates have gone down, well they have until recently until people started to think they could text and drive at the same time. We are starting to see some pretty nasty nose to tail accidents on perfectly dry roads with blue skys.

 

Kind of leads on to why we are getting driver aids that keep you in your lane and start braking for you, many people are no longer have their attention on the road and are staring at cellphone screens.

 

6 months ago I saw a BMW coming onto the motorway in the other direction and then for no reason it hit a wall and the left hand front of the car vaporized and I thought the front wheel with half the suspension still attached was going to come over the median barrier at me. Conditions were dry road not another car in sight.

 

These days I spend more time than I used to looking at the rear view mirror for clowns that are not looking at the road. If you see one its a good idea to change lanes.

[dgoodhue]

Accidents happen a couple were not even my fault and unavoidable. Most occurred way back when I didn't have the road experience coupled with the fact that cars made in the 1980's were really not that great.

 

One of the big improvements was ABS braking and at least 3 of my accidents could have been avoided with a car equipped with this and decent tyres in the wet.

 

I think anyone would agree, handling of my Subaru is simply out of sight in comparison to FWD cars of the 1980's. I had a 1984 Ford and an old Toyota KE70 wagon, the handling is laughable and if I jumped into one of those now I would probably kill myself at the first corner.

 

Really? Your going to blame ABS for your accidents. I grew up in similar era of vehicles. I didn't have your issues and I drove like an asshat. I shared a 1983 Toyota Tercel with sibling and my 1st car was a hand me down 1984 4x4 Toyota truck. The 80's were light year ahead of 50, 60 and 70 cars in terms of handling and braking. The 80's also had some engine that would be consider underpowered by todays standards. Did your corolla wagon even have 80hp? It takes some really 'skill' to get those cars up to speed. You should not be taking any corners in your Legacy on the roads at that exceeds the handling limits of an 80's car. You're driving to fast for the conditions and/or roads.

 

Kind of leads on to why we are getting driver aids that keep you in your lane and start braking for you, many people are no longer have their attention on the road and are staring at cellphone screens.

 

These days I spend more time than I used to looking at the rear view mirror for clowns that are not looking at the road. If you see one its a good idea to change lanes.

 

Manufacturers make the drivers aids for drivers like you, you're just too stubborn to realize it. You really should be driving a 2.5i CVT eyesight stability controlled Legacy. Given your accident history you really should be paying attention to road ahead of you not spending all your time in the rear view mirror.

[Tronic]

No thanks mate, my next car will be a Porsche GT3 when the MR2 finally dies. Its pretty much the only sports car made with a manual transmission.

 

CVT is complete rubbish, I hope Subaru phases it out when they finally give up on trying to make it reliable, it cannot handle the Torque.

 

Some of you haters on here are hilarious, keep up the good work.

[lsxjunkie]

Came here to talk about the 2020 Legacy. Left disappointed.

[StoplightAssassin]

saw pictures and specs of the 2020 legacy. Left disappointed.

 

fify

[dgoodhue]

my next car will be a Porsche GT3

 

So why are you here in this thread? You have repeated like a broken record your disdain of a CVT. If you follow Subaru press clippings, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out 7th Gen Subaru Legacy was going to be CVT. If your looking for a MT in a Subaru, the only cars that one can expect to see them in are the WRX and BRZ. (It is only a matter of time before they drop Impreza and Crosstrek MT offerings as well.)

[LegGTLT]

Catching up here...

UMMM This is the 2020 Legacy thread right? Just ckn..

Nope... this is the 2020 IWISHITWASALGTSTI Thread.

Still waiting for B4 to pop in...

 

waiting...

 

waiting...

 

or did he get a job with another manufacturer? lmao

He is now employed by Toyota. He was an undercover troll pushing for people to stick with Subaru just long enough to swear off the brand FOREVER and buy a Camry.

YES!

Came here to talk about the 2020 Legacy. Left disappointed.

 

fify

Correct. Not sure what you thought you'd find in a thread about a mid-size sedan that has all the details and excitement of a paper towel that you couldn't read in one press release.

[ammcinnis]

OK, guys ... Knock off the offensive language and personal insults! First and last warning.

[LegGTLT]

I think it's cute that the mods thank each other's clean up posts!

[StoplightAssassin]

I think it's cute that in a country where SUVs and crossovers dominate, so many people are surprised Subaru continues to offer a midsize car that very minimally appeals to enthusiasts.

[THE RZA]

Toyota is jealous that Subaru is getting better at making Toyotas than them.

[thefultonhow]

Toyota is jealous that Subaru is getting better at making Toyotas than them.

Are you kidding? Toyota is still way better at making Toyotas (boring reliable appliances) than Subaru. Unfortunately, Subaru is no longer good at making Subarus (quirky fun-to-drive cars).

[THE RZA]

I stand corrected, Subaru is making better looking Toyotas than Toyota

[Scottydunno]

Are you kidding? Toyota is still way better at making Toyotas (boring reliable appliances) than Subaru. Unfortunately, Subaru is no longer good at making Subarus (quirky fun-to-drive cars).

This is perhaps one of the most accurate statements of what's going in Subaru land! They traded quirkiness and fun for mundane and boring...

 

Not gonna lie, I'll more than likely test drive a turbo car. I'm not a fan of CVTs at all, however I'll give a shot. FWIW, you gotta admit it is a nice looking and still a better alternative to the others.

 

Scotty

05 OBP LGT. Minor stuff done..

[Stuff]

There is no choice but a CVT in the US but what about the rest of the world? I don't want one but there are enough "enthusiasts" out there so Subaru could import some. Or would this steal sales from the WRX?

[TwoTone]

There is no choice but a CVT in the US but what about the rest of the world? I don't want one but there are enough "enthusiasts" out there so Subaru could import some. Or would this steal sales from the WRX?

 

 

It's not that simple, my understanding is you can't just crash test a CVT version and say see all good then sell a manual version. It would have to under go all the testing as well.

 

 

 

That isn't worth the cost for a few sales.

[ehsnils]

Only CVT around here too.

 

 

But it's not as bad as some people says - I prefer it over a stepped auto. But I don't like the fake shiftings.

[thefultonhow]

I stand corrected, Subaru is making better looking Toyotas than Toyota

 

Counterexample: fifth gen

[THE RZA]

that was a time when Subaru was confused, lots of experimentation

[dgoodhue]

There is no choice but a CVT in the US but what about the rest of the world? I don't want one but there are enough "enthusiasts" out there so Subaru could import some. Or would this steal sales from the WRX?

 

Rest of the world are getting CVT too. I looked through the Japanese Subaru website. The only car that is available with a 6MT are the STI and BRZ. The JDM WRX even has a CVT. The only non CVT automatic is in the BRZ. The US has more MT option than the JDM cars.

 

Just as a side note. I often forget that Subaru is available elsewhere in the world with FWD. I wonder if that is a factor in why Subaru uses FWD biases with CVT's AWD. I am sure cost something to do with VTD only being available with the WRX's HTCVT. The only other car I have seen with the VTD on HTCVT is the Levorg 2.0 DIT.

[ehsnils]

The 5th gen had some design quirks, the worst as I see it is that you have to go in through the wheel house to replace headlight bulbs.

[DugsSin]

Can be done through the engine compartment with air box or battery removal which is my preferred route. Not really too bad once you've done it and know the process.