Pilot1226 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 The reason I asked about your Pilot's year, current gen has active torque vectoring, which is superior to brake based torque vectoring of Subarus. But if it's still unstable I was curious if it's tire related or the car it self. I personally can't justify snow tires in Virginia, even though I'm in mountains. We do get occasional snow and ice (followed by 60F the next day). Thus I only use All Seasons myself too. The '12 Outback is actually pretty darn good in the snow, within reason, better then even then the '05 LGT. The electronic stability control is the reason why, thus I would expect any newer Legacy to be on par too. Now that I think about it, even though Subaru has inferior brake based torque vectoring, that's only useful for getting the car moving, perhaps Subaru's stability control logic is superior? Oh right, I forgot those that they require special batteries too. I can't say I've ever seen those for sale myself in stores, probably specialty shop/dealer only? Whoops forgot to answer that. We have a 2016 EX-L. It does not have the Sensing package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Sounds like he's a ***** who should have gotten the 1.5T. And shouldn’t ASR stop the wheels from spinning? I assume ASR is traction control. His real gripe is that its slow off the line and at low speeds. The tires spin which active the traction control, which cuts power. I am guess 1.5T wouldn't cure the slow off the line complaint my friend has. My point wasn't to bag on Honda, it was just to indirectly point out they may have traction issues that one may not be use to with AWD vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Other than an absolute want for AWD or some misplaced brand loyalty, I don't know why anybody would pick this over the new Accord. Have to agree for about 15 years I have said many times, if Honda made a car like this, they'd put Subaru out of business. Kind of like the style of the 2020, its the wheels I'm not loving. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 https://jalopnik.com/can-subaru-make-the-outback-cool-again-1832475741/amp All garbage. I swear, I am going to take another break from imports and just drive a Chrysler 300 Hemi - AWD or hund down another old Caddilac with the Northstar V8. My last domestic / probably Canadian Car was Dodge Magnum RT. It was RWD, 5.7 Hemi V8 and I didn’t die driving it in New England with all season tires in winter. This is just my personal epinion: Subaru is just playing it safe (again) with their boring ass cars and engines... They are sticking to their selling points: Boring, Naturally Aspirated Imprezas, Fozzy, Legacy and Outback for the Tofu moms and hipster dads. I love my outback but I can wait to get away from it due to its boringly design, crappy stereo and lack of features vs. other cars of the same year and class. I can see that a 2019 3.6R limited with one option will run around $40k est. (give or take) so I can not see myself forking over anything near that for another boring wagon, just because it has a turbo in it. I will wait to see the price points... it hey they take regular gas. This is 1000% correct. They are a for profit company that makes for profit cars that deliver their profit based on these boring for profit selling points. They don't give a **** what we think. We just complain and ask for more features, power, and OMNOMNOM at lower prices. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I assume ASR is traction control. His real gripe is that its slow off the line and at low speeds. The tires spin which active the traction control, which cuts power. I am guess 1.5T wouldn't cure the slow off the line complaint my friend has. My point wasn't to bag on Honda, it was just to indirectly point out they may have traction issues that one may not be use to with AWD vehicles. A torquey car with commuter spec tires has traction issues? How odd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aac0036 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) I swear, I am going to take another break from imports and just drive a Chrysler 300 Hemi - AWD or hund down another old Caddilac with the Northstar V8. I'm eyeing a DTS myself. Or a Volvo S80 V8. Then eventually find a smaller manual car (I'm still <30 ) Edited February 12, 2019 by aac0036 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Yes, ASR is a component of traction control that senses wheel spin and cuts power to the wheels when detected. Acceleration Slip Reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 I'm eyeing a DTS myself. Or a Volvo S80 V8. Then eventually find a smaller manual car (I'm still <30 ) Volvo FTW. You won't like the Honda-esque torque steer but they're great. If you're willing to go all the way back to the S80 V8 days I'd highly recco the T6 with a Polestar in just about any P3 platform. Just saying coming from someone with a '14 XC-70 P*. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wankey Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 A torquey car with commuter spec tires has traction issues? How odd! If 273ftlb is torquey on 2 wheels, then how does 277ftlbs on 4 wheels? Doesn't that mean the new legacy is super torquey WRX family sedan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadrick20 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Damn. I was sure they would make a 6speed manual version. Welp, time to part the car out and get something with an in-line 6. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 6-speed might come later, if we all go down to our dealers and request it. They could just transplant the WRX 6-speed (since it's highly unlikely that they'll do what they did for the Spec.B). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted February 13, 2019 I Donated Share Posted February 13, 2019 6-speed might come later, if we all go down to our dealers and request it. They could just transplant the WRX 6-speed (since it's highly unlikely that they'll do what they did for the Spec.B).No it won't. [emoji38] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 No it won't. [emoji38] Don't burst our bubble. If we will it to come, it will come (or at least we can dream it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted February 13, 2019 I Donated Share Posted February 13, 2019 Don't burst our bubble. If we will it to come, it will come (or at least we can dream it)Literally everything new that Subaru has done over the past 10 years has been disappointing to enthusiasts. 2009: no more manual for Forester XT 2010: ugly Legacy 2010: no more Outback XT or other high powered manual Outback 2012: ugly-ass Impreza with weak FB20 2013: no more LGT 2015: no more manual Legacy/Outback 2015: CVT 3.6R 2015: no more WRX/STI hatch 2018: senior engineer says manuals will be phased out of all lines 2019: no more Forester XT Why would you think 2020, or the future, would be any different? Especially because all of these disappointing decisions have been immensely profitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot1226 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 It’s hard to justify something that represents 1% of sales. Unless you as the customer would bore the Premium. People balked at the 60k STI Type RA after dealer markup. Would you pay 50k or more for a Legacy GT? Not many would. The time it takes them to shift capacity in production from a booming trim like Outback or Ascent and make your enthusiast car they would have lost money. And sold many more of the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 If 273ftlb is torquey on 2 wheels, then how does 277ftlbs on 4 wheels? Doesn't that mean the new legacy is super torquey WRX family sedan? I read this 5 times and still have no idea what point you are trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2009: no more manual for Forester XT 2010: no more Outback XT or other high powered manual Outback 2013: no more LGT 2015: no more manual Legacy/Outback 2018: senior engineer says manuals will be phased out of all lines Why would you think 2020, or the future, would be any different? Especially because all of these disappointing decisions have been immensely profitable? You can add the 07 Legacy Wagon/ Wagon GT, Spec.B to your list as well. The biggest problem is that consumer did not buy those examples. Subaru can't justify make car that are selling couple hundred units a year. Most of your examples aren't profitable and the example of the WRX Hatch, Subaru went form making ~15k Hatch and Sedans to making 30K WRX sedan's. Both their factory's are running near maximum capacity, add body style and additional options take up manufacturing capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 6-speed might come later, if we all go down to our dealers and request it. They could just transplant the WRX 6-speed (since it's highly unlikely that they'll do what they did for the Spec.B). Don't burst our bubble. If we will it to come, it will come (or at least we can dream it) I'll burst your bubble right now: Legacy STI. LOUD I read this 5 times and still have no idea what point you are trying to make. What he's saying is: If you take equal torque distributed among 2 wheels or 4 wheels it results in the same EXACT PRECISE traction characteristics no matter... wait... wut... WTF??? Is he really saying that? Huh? Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted February 13, 2019 I Donated Share Posted February 13, 2019 It’s hard to justify something that represents 1% of sales. Unless you as the customer would bore the Premium. People balked at the 60k STI Type RA after dealer markup. Would you pay 50k or more for a Legacy GT? Not many would. The time it takes them to shift capacity in production from a booming trim like Outback or Ascent and make your enthusiast car they would have lost money. And sold many more of the others. You can add the 07 Legacy Wagon/ Wagon GT, Spec.B to your list as well. The biggest problem is that consumer did not buy those examples. Subaru can't justify make car that are selling couple hundred units a year. Most of your examples aren't profitable and the example of the WRX Hatch, Subaru went form making ~15k Hatch and Sedans to making 30K WRX sedan's. Both their factory's are running near maximum capacity, add body style and additional options take up manufacturing capacity. Oh, I absolutely 100% agree with all of this. They had a heck of a time selling $35k Legacy Spec.Bs in 06-09 too. I'm just saying that Subaru doesn't give a shit about enthusiasts. Their strategy is obviously working from a business standpoint. But people should stop expecting/hoping that they will make exciting cars. They just. don't. care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mehmed_ii Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Literally everything new that Subaru has done over the past 10 years has been disappointing to enthusiasts. 2009: no more manual for Forester XT 2010: ugly Legacy 2010: no more Outback XT or other high powered manual Outback 2012: ugly-ass Impreza with weak FB20 2013: no more LGT 2015: no more manual Legacy/Outback 2015: CVT 3.6R 2015: no more WRX/STI hatch 2018: senior engineer says manuals will be phased out of all lines 2019: no more Forester XT Why would you think 2020, or the future, would be any different? Especially because all of these disappointing decisions have been immensely profitable? That being said, the new WRX is highly likely to adopt the 2.4 turbo as well, which means they may introduce a manual transmission that we can easily swap with the legacy xt. Or... Subaru can f**k us over the other way and introduce a CVT only WRX... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted February 13, 2019 I Donated Share Posted February 13, 2019 That being said, the new WRX is highly likely to adopt the 2.4 turbo as well, which means they may introduce a manual transmission that we can easily swap with the legacy xt. Or... Subaru can f**k us over the other way and introduce a CVT only WRX... Oh, that's cute. You think it will be possible to swap the ECU, TCU, BIU, and a bunch of other modules from the WRX to the Legacy. [emoji38] Subarus haven't had Lego powertrains for 15 years now. The introduction of the 4th gen LGT was the end of the line for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Until someone figures out how to make a TCU emulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mehmed_ii Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Oh, that's cute. You think it will be possible to swap the ECU, TCU, BIU, and a bunch of other modules from the WRX to the Legacy. [emoji38] Subarus haven't had Lego powertrains for 15 years now. The introduction of the 4th gen LGT was the end of the line for that. Well would the TNGA common platform and having a common engine make it easier? The 3.6 never came in a manual so it was very difficult to swap it. (one guy on YouTube had to use a custom ECU) I think this will be as easy as manual swapping a CVT Impreza. Although it would be a lot easier to save the money it takes to just buy a manual Audi A4 with Quattro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Until someone figures out how to make a TCU emulator. I think we're still trying to disassemble the '05 TCM, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I think this will be as easy as manual swapping a CVT Impreza. Which isn't actually easy. It is also far harder to swap a combination that does not exist in production. New cars communicate to each module through a bus system with addresses. Once you change ECM you have to try to figure how get those systems (Legacy) to communicate with WRX ECM and their is a chance those system may not be compatible. For instance the Instrument cluster of the Legacy and WRX ECM will need to be reprogramed so the addresses match so that they will be able communicate with each other. Potentially how is the Legacy cluster going to work when its been sent information that a WRX cluster may have but does exist in the Legacy cluster. What happens if that information is in center display? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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