The official 2020 Legacy thread

[aac0036]

It’s hard to justify something that represents 1% of sales. Unless you as the customer would bore the Premium.

 

sales is king... they already have 2(3 if you think the wrx and sti are different) performance vehicles with MTs. there is no incentive to revisit the 4th/5th gen LGT formula. the WRX has too much overlap at this point.

 

I agree with both of you. However, given the success Mazda has had with the MX-5 it goes to show a relatively smallish company can build a great enthusiast vehicle that from a manufacturing standpoint has little to do with any other model. This is why I was saying earlier that Subaru can keep building the mass market stuff all they want AND continue to support the enthusiast in some way. As whitetiger mentioned, they have 3 different enthusiast cars. As good as it is nobody asked for the BRZ. If Subaru curtails their efforts by focusing on the WRX, they can make both camps happy. Will they though? No. I've already come to accept there will never be a true Legacy GT replacement, but if they start messing with the WRX too... vape nation will start throwing tables.

 

The 3rd gen legacy outsold the 4th gen by a lot despite the 4th gen being a more refined, and offering a turbo model. I think the main reason does simply come down price point, the 3rd gen's price hit the sweet spot while the 4th gen did not.

 

Total sales

First-generation Legacy- 824,612

Second-generation Legacy- 961,825

Third-generation Legacy- 902,071

Fourth-generation Legacy- 311,492

 

Yikes... shocking, thanks for sharing.

 

Good discussion, but let's try to keep the thread on 2020 Legacy and Outback news and specs.

[THE RZA]

The 3rd gen legacy outsold the 4th gen by a lot despite the 4th gen being a more refined, and offering a turbo model. I think the main reason does simply come down price point, the 3rd gen's price hit the sweet spot while the 4th gen did not.

 

 

Total sales

First-generation Legacy- 824,612

Second-generation Legacy- 961,825

Third-generation Legacy- 902,071

Fourth-generation Legacy- 311,492

 

 

 

Subaru did almost no marketing from 2004-2009 of the Legacy remember that. During that time frame (and before that with 3rd gen) the Outback was their most popular car, the Forrester was gaining popularity and they just launched the WRX in 02 and the STI in 04. The 4th gen LGT was pretty much an afterthought in their line up. I remember seeing a picture in 2002 of the proposed 05 LGT in fast-cars.net ...it was a sharp car, had that Euro-luxury sedan look from that time frame. During that time frame you basically had to know what a Legacy or LGT was to want one....or you went to the dealer with the intention to buy a WRX, saw the LGT on the showroom floor and bought that instead.

[RustyRuu]

 

sorry if someone already posted this but... some action shots

[LegGTLT]

It was actually on the market for four years.

 

It was even worse in 06, when instead of suede seats and a 6-speed,it had red seats and a 5-speed, and they produced 1500, yet it still was $35k. They finally learned their lesson by 09, when they only built like 200 units.

 

 

 

500. It was 500. Get it right you SS crashing Stinger driving nutjob. 500. Only 500.

[SubieDriver]

The 3rd gen legacy outsold the 4th gen by a lot despite the 4th gen being a more refined, and offering a turbo model. I think the main reason does simply come down price point, the 3rd gen's price hit the sweet spot while the 4th gen did not.

 

 

Total sales

First-generation Legacy- 824,612

Second-generation Legacy- 961,825

Third-generation Legacy- 902,071

Fourth-generation Legacy- 311,492

 

Fourth-gen was when they started carpet-bombing the airwaves with Crocodile Dundee Outback ads. Everybody forgot Subaru made anything but Outbacks and started thinking it was an Australian brand,...

 

...except for the WRX fans who were enthralled with the world rally successes and ecstatic that the WRX finally came here in 2002, and bought it in droves.

 

The Legacy got lost in the dust.

[StoplightAssassin]

Fourth-gen was when they started carpet-bombing the airwaves with Crocodile Dundee Outback ads. Everybody forgot Subaru made anything but Outbacks and started thinking it was an Australian brand,...

 

...except for the WRX fans who were enthralled with the world rally successes and ecstatic that the WRX finally came here in 2002, and bought it in droves.

 

The Legacy got lost in the dust.

 

The first Paul Hogan ads came out in 99...6 years before the 4th gen Legacy.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z9qohzqq9g]Crocodile Dundee and Ogre Subaru Outback Commercial - YouTube[/ame]

[dgoodhue]

The 3rd gen legacy outsold the 4th gen by a lot despite the 4th gen being a more refined, and offering a turbo model. I think the main reason does simply come down price point, the 3rd gen's price hit the sweet spot while the 4th gen did not.

 

 

Total sales

First-generation Legacy- 824,612

Second-generation Legacy- 961,825

Third-generation Legacy- 902,071

Fourth-generation Legacy- 311,492

 

I know this is off the original subject. Those numbers do not accurately portrait the sales and it apples oranges comparison. The 3rd Gen did out sell the 4th Gen but not by those margins. I am guess the 4th Gen numbers may not include the outback while the 3rd gen did or perhaps the 4th Gen sales are US while the rest of the sale are worldwide.

 

Here are US Legacy sales.

 

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/subaru/subaru-legacy/

[THE RZA]

during 2nd and 3rd gen timeframe, look how low impreza sales were. During the 90’s the legacy was their go to car to sell if you didn’t want to look like a lesbian in an outback. Mid to late 2000’s impreza sales dominated....cost of a Legacy also went up too. I remember when I bought my 09 2.5i a brand new one sold for 24k, brand new impreza was 18k

[fishbone]

The point being noone died in a Subaru due to the inflators malfunctioning, but there were deaths in Honda vehicles, Subaru must be doing something better to not have had any deaths from using the same inflators used in Hondas.

 

Yeah but Subaru owners died from spun bearings and ring land failures. Died on the inside.

[fishbone]

Or... Subaru can f**k us over the other way and introduce a CVT only WRX...

 

 

I wouldn’t mind owning another Subaru, I kinda dig the Ascent, but I have some bad news for you. I think you’re dead from the waist down if you can’t tell Subaru has been ******* you for a long time now. I still can’t get over the introduction of the CVT in a WRX and that the STi is at the same power level since forever.

 

I get it. It’s a cliche at this point for 4th gen owners moving on to other cars and shitting on Subaru, but I basically sacrificed 4 mpg going from 280-ish hp 2.5 liter to 414 hp 6.2 liter in a four thousand pound car that can give an STi a run for its money on a track. That simply should not happen in my opinion, but I’m open to being wrong.

 

I also think the 4th gen Legacy GT is the Subaru master race. Long gone though. Or maybe I’m just rambling on a late Friday afternoon exhausted after work.

[Homedepotmade]

The heated and cooling steering wheel sounds like a nice feature but auto only?

[SubOperator]

No wagon, so does not matter to me.

 

 

 

I'll wait until Outback is introduced. 2.4DIT is a good start, we'll see whether Canada gets 6MT as an options.

 

 

 

While I do like how the new headunit looks, it's unique design means owners are forever locked out of aftermarket stereos.

[thefultonhow]

I still can’t get over the introduction of the CVT in a WRX and that the STi is at the same power level since forever.

 

The engine in the STI is for all intents and purposes 16 years old now. There are only minor differences between it, and the EJ257 that came out in the STI in Spring 2003.

 

That's f*cking retarded. That's some Ford-level shit right there. That's like not changing the design of the Crown Vic and Town Car from 1997 until 2013, because hey, customers like the platform!

 

Amazing.

 

The heated and cooling steering wheel sounds like a nice feature but auto only?

 

Why the hell would anyone want cold hands?

[Penguin]

The 2020 Subaru Legacy is a pathetic turd. In the early winter of 2004 I bought a 2005 Legacy GT, it had a turbocharged H4 that made 250hp and 250lb-ft of torque. At that time a Toyota Camry SE V6 made a whopping 225hp, and a V6 Honda Accord made 240hp. Here we are 15 years later and the Legacy is again going to offer a turbocharged H4, making a whopping 260hp, and 277lb-ft of torque. After 15 years.

 

A new Toyota Camry V6 makes 301hp and 269lb-ft of torque, and will invariably be better made.

 

For all of you autistic morons that think AWD is some sort of necessity for driving in winter weather please note that I drive a 2007 Toyota Tundra with a 5.7L V8 all year round. In the Black Hills of South Dakota. It is exceedingly rare that I need to use the 4X4 system on the truck. Only in deep snow, otherwise in rear wheel drive mode it goes where I need it to. We still have a 2006 Scion tC front wheel drive coupe. It has never been stuck, or ended up in the ditch.

 

Most of you live where it either doesn't snow much, or in places that have very good snow removal. We get snow frequently where I live, and the state barely even bothers to clear snow off of rural highways until the snow has stopped. I work on call, and often find myself driving 24 miles to work in the middle of the night busting trail through 6" of fresh snow in the truck, in 4X2.... and still not getting stuck or driving into the ditch. Sometimes I do need 4X4, but only because my employer is not understanding of weather conditions. Most people don't have to drive in that shit, including 99% of the people who will read this post.

 

AWD is overrated, buy good tires and don't drive like a retarded muppet.

[copyboy311]

 

Most of you live where it either doesn't snow much, or in places that have very good snow removal. ... Most people don't have to drive in that shit, including 99% of the people who will read this post.

 

AWD is overrated, buy good tires and don't drive like a retarded muppet.

 

That seems a bit high and mighty of you. How do you know the demographics of owners in this group and their driving needs? I live in Wisconsin and previously lived in Tahoe and have driven AWD cars because it's a lot better than sliding around to get traction from a stop, or getting stuck in deep snow, or chaining up, or swapping out winter tires every season. The snow in Tahoe is about as extreme as it gets at times. For two winters I did studded snows; they were great, but it was overkill.

 

AWD just makes driving more pleasant and easier in crap conditions. I'm sure I'm not the only person here in that situation. In fact, I know there are other owners here from the Upper Midwest, Idaho, Washington, Northeast, etc.

[thefultonhow]

That seems a bit high and mighty of you. How do you know the demographics of owners in this group and their driving needs? I live in Wisconsin and previously lived in Tahoe and have driven AWD cars because it's a lot better than sliding around to get traction from a stop, or getting stuck in deep snow, or chaining up, or swapping out winter tires every season. The snow in Tahoe is about as extreme as it gets at times. For two winters I did studded snows; they were great, but it was overkill.

 

 

 

AWD just makes driving more pleasant and easier in crap conditions. I'm sure I'm not the only person here in that situation. In fact, I know there are other owners here from the Upper Midwest, Idaho, Washington, Northeast, etc.

Or you can get a FWD car and snow tires. Or a RWD car and snow tires.

 

All cars have all-wheel handling and all-wheel braking. AWD only helps with traction. Why not spend your money on a better car, and get tires that will help not just traction, but also handling and braking?

 

My wife's FWD Veloster Turbo can make it up a snowy hill with a 20-30 degree slope with snow tires on it. Unless you literally live on the side of a mountain, you're unlikely to encounter a steeper hill. Oh, and BTW, there is a sharp curve at the bottom (so you can't use momentum to get up the hill), and it's steeper at the top than at the bottom, so a lot of people make it up the not as steep part and get stuck halfway up.

[StoplightAssassin]

I live in the Northeast and have/had 2 RWD cars with winter tires and both were much better in snow than my LGT that had all seasons in the winter.

[Tronic]

Cannot beat AWD when you start going up in power. The Subaru feels so planted on the road in the wet and you don't worry when you hit the gravel either. Basically AWD makes a safer car and gets the power down to the road.

 

Personally I would never buy another front wheel drive car, I don't care what it is.

 

Learn't to drive in a FWD, moved to a RWD sports car years later and now just love the AWD. The AWD is almost at the top of the must have list.

[Scottydunno]

For me.. its nice to see a boosted drivetrain in a family sedan. Granted it's not meant in a purpose that us gear heads want, but nonetheless it's there. I've come to the conclusion that a MT Legacy will more than likely, never return. As for the car itself, its definitely a contender in the world as it is now, but we enthusiasts.... we all know the 4th gen is where it's at. Well, more like where it was..

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[thefultonhow]

Cannot beat AWD when you start going up in power.

 

Depends on how high you go. Plenty of 400-500 hp cars that do just fine with RWD. The Stinger GT, with 365 hp, is faster in RWD than in AWD, because the extra traction AWD provides off the line can't overcome the lower drive train loss of RWD.

 

In on road conditions where a modern RWD car with stability control can't keep up with an AWD car, you better be pussyfooting it anyway. And if you don't, there are plenty of soccer moms in SUVs with AWD and no-season tires that end up in a ditch or median.

 

Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed in this forum that people see RWD as vastly inferior to AWD. I can see people disliking FWD, but I think it's pretty clear that this forum is no longer an enthusiast forum. It's a bunch of people who would buy Toyotas, if only the Camry was available with AWD.

[thefultonhow]

For me.. its nice to see a boosted drivetrain in a family sedan.

 

At this point, I'd rather buy an Accord or a Sonata, both of which offer the same thing in a more appealing package. And the Accord even offers it with a manual!

[Tronic]

Yes where traction is not a problem a RWD is fine but sorry throw in a bit of gravel or a wet road or road with poor traction and thats where the AWD comes into its own.

 

I used to race 1/8 scale gas 4WD cars on the track so no even offroad and you knew the instant you had a front wheel drive problem, the car was quicker with 4WD, so much so 2WD was a separate class.These are approaching 1:1 power to weight ratio so I guess if you want a 1000Hp rear wheel drive road car without the downforce from aerodynamics of an F1 to keep it on the road...

 

Even worse, the track is not the road, our roads are shit. Uneven surface, gravel, pot holes, variable surface types from chip to dead smooth tarseal and thats before it gets wet. AWD rocks in these conditions.

[fishbone]

The LGT was an animal in the snow with good tires on it. Nebraska doesn’t give AF about snow removal, there’s been many, many occasions with snow up to the door sills and the only issue was accumulation in the front of the car. I have some fond memories waking my ass up at 5AM in a snow blizzard to give my wife a ride to work because her Mini didn’t stand a chance. When I bought the Legacy I ended up going to the DMV to get it registered on a day when work was closed due to weather. That car didn’t give AF. The 4th gen interior IMO from a design and fit and finish standpoint has held up well, better than newer Subarus that are cheap hard scratchy plastic everywhere.

 

I find the reintroduction of the turbo Legacy rather surprising but it probably plays into SOA long term plans whatever they may be.

[thefultonhow]

Yes where traction is not a problem a RWD is fine but sorry throw in a bit of gravel or a wet road or road with poor traction and thats where the AWD comes into its own.

 

I used to race 1/8 scale gas 4WD cars on the track so no even offroad and you knew the instant you had a front wheel drive problem, the car was quicker with 4WD, so much so 2WD was a separate class.These are approaching 1:1 power to weight ratio so I guess if you want a 1000Hp rear wheel drive road car without the downforce from aerodynamics of an F1 to keep it on the road...

 

Even worse, the track is not the road, our roads are shit. Uneven surface, gravel, pot holes, variable surface types from chip to dead smooth tarseal and thats before it gets wet. AWD rocks in these conditions.

 

Ah, so your experience racing mini RC cars is applicable to roadgoing cars. I see. [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]

 

If you live in an area with lots of gravel roads, that's... interesting. And RWD does just fine in the wet. As I said, if you're in a situation where traction is low enough, you shouldn't be flooring a 350 hp car, whether it's AWD or RWD or a Reliant Robin style 3-wheeler.

[thefultonhow]

I find the reintroduction of the turbo Legacy rather surprising but it probably plays into SOA long term plans whatever they may be.

 

I mean, it makes sense. Everyone else is going to turbo 4s instead of V6es, and Subaru has a ton of turbo 4 experience.

 

I really think their decision to push the 3.6R was boneheaded. They bet the farm on 6-cylinders right when everyone else started going to turbo 4s. It worked out okay for them, because they finally started properly marketing their cars and producing stuff that appealed more to mainstream buyers, but one wonders if they wouldn't have done even better with an FA20DIT on the Legacy and Outback in 2013.