MrTris Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 That is good to know. And makes complete sense to me.But is that line good with an 18g? I would think it would be for an upgraded turbo? Depends on if 18G is journal or BB/RB. If journal, yes. If BB, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooTBeeR Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 I noticed the banjo bolt holes are different sizes, and the OEM feed line actually has quite a restrictive hole as well "Build" Thread <--Link (OLD) '05 EJ255 now a '13 EJ257 Bottom End w/D25 heads (NEW) Forever Slow [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenster Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Depends on if 18G is journal or BB/RB. If journal, yes. If BB, no. I'm guessing the BNR is journal. Bryan requires the line for the warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxman Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Even with the stock bolt, it's too much flow. I'm having a hard time understanding why. Explain it like I'm 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I'm guessing the BNR is journal. Bryan requires the line for the warranty. I cannot say for sure, but, if I had to hazard a guess, the line is required for warranty because the majority of BNR purchases are the result of a failed OEM turbo, which, as we all know, causes oil contamination, and, if not properly remedied after initial failure, (ie oil flush, etc) we see time and again, replacement turbo failure within 3k miles or so; the aftermarket feed lines have the external filters, which will at least somewhat prevent debris from entering the new, replacement turbo, causing failure. Otherwise, he'd spend all day warrantying failures that could have been easily prevented, such as with the aftermarket filtered line. I'm having a hard time understanding why. Explain it like I'm 5. Ehhh, hard to explain it in layman's terms, other than talking about the size of holes. BB turbos require less oil than journal, as, too much oil will cause the bearings to float, as JmP said above. The size of the holes in the banjos, as well as the lines feeding them, tend to dictate the pressure and flow to those bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Too much oil pressure and too much volume can cause the journal bearing to seize for a split second and then begin to turn again. When this happens, it allows a flat spot to form and that wears both on the inside against the shaft and the outside against the bearing support housing. As it continues, the bearing wears more and more and eventually causes too much sideplay inside and outside of the journal bearing. The journal bearing is made out of bronze and the shaft is steel and the housing is cast iron, so the journal bearing loses and so does the owner of the turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxman Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 The volume is regulated by the size of the orifice, where does the extra pressure come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Whenever you force an amount of liquid through a hole smaller than the source, it always speeds up and increases pressure relative to increase in speed. In the case of the oiling system inside of a turbo and the way it is routed, it will increase pressure downward on the journal bearings because the oiling weep hole is directly on the top of the bearing. It forces itself into the bearing pocket and as it pushes harder, it can actually stop the rotation of the journal bearing inside the housing for a split second as the oiling holes move past and that split second allows a slight flat spot to form and then it turns again. It continues to do this and not too far down the road, it then has worn a lot of flat spots but in several places it's hit on the same place again and again, and then the turbo is all done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxman Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If I use the stock banjo then the size of the orifice didn't change. The system pressure didn't change. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooTBeeR Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Vf 52 should be ok I think. "Build" Thread <--Link (OLD) '05 EJ255 now a '13 EJ257 Bottom End w/D25 heads (NEW) Forever Slow [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If I use the stock banjo then the size of the orifice didn't change. The system pressure didn't change. What am I missing? Didn't miss anything except that extra size in the oil feed tube is unnecessary and if you use the IPT kit which is larger with the banjo bolt supplied, you can float the bearings. If it's unnecessary for the size of the journal bearings, why spend the money is basically the gist of this. The IPT kit is designed for the Td05/06 based turbos and larger like Holesets and Garret. Some of those have enormous journal bearings and housings and can easily utilize the larger feed lines and banjo bolts. Mike's kit is an excellent idea for these turbos but just too large for the smaller VF40/46/Td04 turbos in that it's just not necessary so why spend the money? He will even recommend that you don't use it on these turbos. This tells you about the different sizes of journal bearings and shaft sizes of the common turbos that we use. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/most-reliable-turbo-236420p2.html The photo shows you turbine/shaft assemblies for a VF40, a VF39/52, a Td05, a Holeset and a larger Holeset. You can tell that the two on the right side can DEFINITELY use the larger oil feed but there is such a difference in the rest, that the IPT feed kit really becomes useful on the 9mm shaft (VF39/43/48/52, Td05/06) and larger units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Cornfused and will read through this again since Mike told me to use the supplied larger orifice bolt with my V1 on the g16. My G16 is not a BNR compressor housing but the modified VF40 version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxman Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 hmm, I thought that the purpose was to filter the oil going into the turbo as it's at the tail end of the oil circuit before return to the pan and thus catches all of the crud washed through the system...and that it may just save the turbo in the event of other oiling issues in the engine, a la spun bearing. So, I'm back to a very specific question, forget about cost, forget about need. If I use the IP&T filter and hose with the stock turbo oil feed banjo bolt will there be an issue with over pressuring the journals of a VF40 or not? I really appreciate all of the detailed information, however, I'm asking a simple yes or no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 No. boxman, you can stop reading now, the rest is for everyone else. The stock orifice in the banjo bolt at the turbo will only allow that amount of flow. You may have a slight pressure increase but it wouldn't be enough to worry about. I have removed both banjo filters and run the stock oil feed line. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Cornfused and will read through this again since Mike told me to use the supplied larger orifice bolt with my V1 on the g16. My G16 is not a BNR compressor housing but the modified VF40 version.. BNR 16G, 18G, 20G is a hybrid that mounts a VF40 compressor housing onto a Td05 center housing. He also modifies the stock VF40 exhaust housing to fit the larger Td05 turbine. He has stopped modifying the IHI compressor housings (hence the reason why he no longer asks for the VF40 cores) since he has had his own castings made with the BNR logo, but essentially, it's still the same design. He has a ring that snaps onto the Td05 machined housing with the standard sized snap ring and then that assembly fits into the standard compressor housing after the center inlet diameter and shape has been machined out to fit the larger wheel by size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Ok, thanks for the confirmation. When I purchased he offered one without his casting mainly because of visual BS in California. I wanted to look stock as possible. BNR label exactly the same as IHI. One of these days I still want to send you my old VF40. First I need to get my act together and get this motor done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Ok, on with ReaRButT rebuild thread. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooTBeeR Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 Haven't Updated in a bit. 4/29/2015 Got my JMP rebuilt turbo back w/ a new Inconel Turbine wheel and shaft, and Billet Compressor wheel. Also got TMIC Studs and Head/Chassis Ground Straps Thanks again to Mr. JMP, awesome service and product! http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/29/11f681ee2df98a91ca07f0818fced943.jpg Also got more parts. Subaru Blue Oil Filters Power Steering, Alternator, and A/C belts Oil Cooler Coolant Hose Elbow http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/29/cfeba48e2ef5625b54c76a5c3fe4d359.jpg "Build" Thread <--Link (OLD) '05 EJ255 now a '13 EJ257 Bottom End w/D25 heads (NEW) Forever Slow [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooTBeeR Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 05/03/2015 Went to radio shack. Got my "catted to catless uppipe temp sender CEL delete" resistor. Lucky for me they're going out of business do everything is 40% off. $0.65 for 5! Haha http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/03/b71fc7bc459e18ae983fa093381401d3.jpg "Build" Thread <--Link (OLD) '05 EJ255 now a '13 EJ257 Bottom End w/D25 heads (NEW) Forever Slow [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex0856 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 The resistor mod isn't necessary if you're getting it tuned (which I assume you are). They can disable the CEL within the tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haight 05LGT Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 05/03/2015 Went to radio shack. Got my "catted to catless uppipe temp sender CEL delete" resistor. Lucky for me they're going out of business do everything is 40% off. $0.65 for 5! Haha http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/03/b71fc7bc459e18ae983fa093381401d3.jpg cheapest "car parts" ever! Any chance of a group buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haight 05LGT Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 The resistor mod isn't necessary if you're getting it tuned (which I assume you are). They can disable the CEL within the tune. Or just get a tactrix cable, laptop, and romraider ecu editor and do it yourself. Piece of cake. Takes 2 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex0856 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Or just get a tactrix cable, laptop, and romraider ecu editor and do it yourself. Piece of cake. Takes 2 minutes. Right, which most of us with open source tunes already have. I just had mine disabled with the tune since I was already in the data logging stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooTBeeR Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 The resistor mod isn't necessary if you're getting it tuned (which I assume you are). They can disable the CEL within the tune. I do eventually, but I cant put my catless uppipe in and pass smog or drive it on the stock tune with out the resistor...and it was only $0.65. I will be tuned later, with an ECUTEK though cheapest "car parts" ever! Any chance of a group buy? lol actually they only had one more (5) pack left. place was pretty empty. Honestly, if someone did want them, I send it to them, no problem. I only need one. Or just get a tactrix cable, laptop, and romraider ecu editor and do it yourself. Piece of cake. Takes 2 minutes. I did just see an update on this thread... http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/vag-com-cables-chipsets-ft232rl-ch340-214994p4.html I may just get that cable for now, and then get my ecutek tune later "Build" Thread <--Link (OLD) '05 EJ255 now a '13 EJ257 Bottom End w/D25 heads (NEW) Forever Slow [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Sub'd because my next 1.5 years of Saturdays aren't spoken for yet. Is there a thread about how to tell your wife YNANSB? My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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