Anyone seriously not happy with their Hawk pads?

[iNVAR]

It doesn't take warming up to perform well. It just performs better after it's warmed up. At least IMHO. I'm not saying my HPS are the greatest in the world, but they do work well even when cold.

[fishbone]

Congrats on post 1000

In my experience they took warming up to perform, in my opinion, safely. Before that point they were unreliable at best. If I could fit a set of BMW pads on my LGT, I would.

One small small difference I noticed between the OEMs and Hawks is that the OEMs do not have a slit in the middle of them like the Hawks do, they are a solid piece, for whatever that is worth.

You and I share a similar experience on the Legacy I believe. I don't have nearly as many complaints about them, just that they are not as good as one would expect.

[jagcars26]

I had Hawk HPS plus on the front. They were extremely dusty and squeely.

I switched over to Hawk ceramics.No more probs and about the same braking ability IMO.

Keep in mind ,I don't do track or autocross anymore so the ceramics work just fine fr me and my stg 2 grocery getter.

[matt]

Understood, Mike. However, it sounds as if the HPS and other "street" pads from Carbotech, et al, have more cons than pros for a 100% street car.

 

I never mentioned anything about needing to be heated up?

 

The Carbotech Bobcat (compound 1521) worked great for me on my LGT, far better than awful stock pads in every way. No problems with squealing, cold weather, or needing to be warmed up at all. The Bobcat is a pure street compound. They should be bedded when first installed but don't need any special maintenance after that.

[fishbone]

I sincerely do not understand the comments regarding dusty HPS pads. I have zero dust. Can some of you describe what they have been seeing? Is this another evidence of inconsistent quality control? The only dirt I get on my rims is road grime, I've never seen brake dust on them, not by any significant amount.

To give you an idea, the Mini OEM pads I have been dealing with .. the rims go from silver (clean) to a dark charcoal color in about 2 weeks with normal city driving. And from that point on it depends how much dust manages to settle, they may even start looking black.

[iNVAR]

My HPS pads are fairly dust, on the stock rims. Are your rims aftermarket and perhaps darker?

 

What I really don't understand is the guy saying that HPS pads leave more deposits than stock. That's just crazy....

[AZP Installs]

I had Hawk HPS plus on the front. They were extremely dusty and squeely.

I switched over to Hawk ceramics.No more probs and about the same braking ability IMO.

Keep in mind ,I don't do track or autocross anymore so the ceramics work just fine fr me and my stg 2 grocery getter.

 

There are no such pads as HPS Plus. You either have HPS or HP+. If you were running the HP+ I expect dust and noise with them.

 

-mike

 

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AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Dealer

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

[lieutenantcolumbo]

There are no such pads as HPS Plus. You either have HPS or HP+. If you were running the HP+ I expect dust and noise with them.

 

-mike

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg

AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Dealer

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

 

Good work, as long as we're nitpicking "squeely" - an expression of happiness, isn't used properly either:

 

I had Hawk HPS plus on the front. They were extremely dusty and squeely.

[AZP Installs]

Good work, as long as we're nitpicking "squeely" - an expression of happiness, isn't used properly either:

 

I'm not being nitpicky, there are 2 different pads from hawk. HP+ and HPS they are distinctly different pads. So the poster I was referring to needs to clarify if he had HPS or HP+ on his car before going to ceramics.

 

-mike

[lieutenantcolumbo]

Guess I am just assuming 99% chance he meant HP + since he goes to the trouble to type out plus, and they were "squeely."

[jagcars26]

I'm not being nitpicky, there are 2 different pads from hawk. HP+ and HPS they are distinctly different pads. So the poster I was referring to needs to clarify if he had HPS or HP+ on his car before going to ceramics.

 

-mike

 

To clarify

Mine were HP+ ,,squeely and dusty like mike said

[fishbone]

If one were to be looking to do away with some of that inherent mushy pedal feel, what would one have to do? SS lines are debated still, I personally feel like they don't make a noticeable difference.

I am currently looking for a good street pad for my Legacy, with a good initial bite. My rotors look great but I guess if I absolutely have to swap them in order to be able to match up good with a set of aftermarket pads, I'll do it.

[berkshire40]

^look into the Grimmspeed master cylinder brace which is soon to be available

[matt]

I did SS lines on my LGT and couldn't feel the difference. I agree with skipping them.

[AZP Installs]

The "mushy" feeling is mostly due to the dual stage master cylinders. Although a super hard pedal may feel great, it is not any indication of how well the brakes stop your car. I've had super stiff pedals on chevy cobalts that stopped awfully.

 

SS Lines help along with regular brake fluid flushes (required every 3/30k anyway) and adding the grimmspeed brace helps as well. After that it gets a bit costly to get the pedal feel you crave with replacing master cylinders etc.

 

-mike

[rao]

Dual stage master cylinder??? I think you mean dual stage booster.

[AZP Installs]

Dual stage master cylinder??? I think you mean dual stage booster.

 

Yes that. Up too late at the U2 concert.

 

Mike

[fahr_side]

I am hearing a lot of good things about the Performance Friction Z-rated pads. Anyone have input on those (who isn't a vendor)?

[AZP Installs]

I haven't heard anything bad about them, so that's a good thing.

 

Mike

[lieutenantcolumbo]

I am hearing a lot of good things about the Performance Friction Z-rated pads. Anyone have input on those (who isn't a vendor)?

 

Had them on my '81 Camaro (which had Vette disk brakes on the rear).

They're good once warmed up and if you keep using them while you're driving.

This was not a daily driver (roll cage, 5 point seat belts, no rear seat, etc.).

When cold forget about it. You can roll right into or through your first stop sign. Didn't ever have an accident, got my heart pounding too many times. Never again for a car I drive on the street. Iirc I posted the same comment earlier in this thread. YMMV

[fishbone]

I need pads that are excellent in cold, excellent initial bite. I don't care about dust, wear, performance in "performance driving", as in make a compromise as far as cold performance just so they withstand higher temps which I will never realistically reach. I need a set that don't need to be warmed up, kept warm, other nonsense.. I want a pad that gives the best feedback possible and does reasonably well on street driving, nothing too crazy.

Bobcats?

[CL21376]

Did anyone see Car and Driver recently did a article on brake pads? Hawk HPS, HP+ and EBC green stuff and stock, all on a new Miata.

 

http://blog.caranddriver.com/performance-brake-pads-compared-hawk-hps-hawk-hp-plus-ebc-yellowstuff/

 

Re HPS:

 

The Hawk HPS is a street-performance pad meant as an upgrade or replacement for stock units. These pads are very street-friendly, with minimal noise and a relatively steady pedal feel. We found a measurable improvement in stopping distance for the first few cycles. But as the test wore on, the HPS pads were prone to fade. If  long days of pounding around a track are on your agenda, there are better choices.

 

Their "cycles" were:

Our procedure included a five-stop *cycle consisting of one 0.5-g stop and four all-out *panic stops from 100 mph. The cycle was performed nine times to gauge the pads’ fade resistance.

 

The HPS pads didn't do that bad, providing the shortest stopping distance for the first 4 cycles--that is 4 sets of 4 100-0 panic stops. They also measured pedal force and travel.

 

I run HPS brakes on my '10 LGT (OEM rotors) and my '94 Firebird (Brembo blanks). I also ran them on my previous car--a 04 Mazda 6s (again with Brembo blanks). I've never had a problem with them, although they do seem to dust more than OE brakes. I also don't track my cars, and mostly limit them to back road runs and ripping through traffic on occasion.

 

Maybe you guys just got some bum sets of pads

[fahr_side]

They're good once warmed up and if you keep using them while you're driving...

When cold forget about it. You can roll right into or through your first stop sign.

I never see temps below 17*C (63*F). Would that change your mind?

 

I have read a lot of good reports on the OE pads PFC does for Corvettes... too bad they don't seem to offer this compound for other pad shapes.

[lieutenantcolumbo]

Given those circumstances you would probably be ok and not need much to heat them up. My bad memories were definitely when it was substantially colder out than that (20 - 40F). Also in fairness its been 4-5 years since I got rid of the car, so they may in fact have improved them since then. With my present environment however (cold weather, dogs, deer, kids, & asshats) I won't be trying them anytime soon. This is my daily driver and I no longer have a dedicated toy. No complaints about them once they're hot.

[SSpeed]

I went with the Hawk Ceramics over the HPS, figuring the Ceramics may be better for the street, since I don't autocross or the like. I found their bite to be slightly better than the OEM LGT pads, especially when heated for a few seconds. I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to suspension/braking though so I'd have no way of telling if they suck... The only non-OEM comparison I have is to Porterfield R4S back in the day, which were dusty as hell and not all that impressive.