AZP Installs Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 You shouldn't be topping off your fluid. Once the fluid gets low enough for the light to come on, that means it's time for pads. Also you should be flushing 1x every 3 years. (It's part of the 30k mile service). I do my service myself... but I'm anal about the brakes. I even clean out the gunk that builds up in there with q-tips and what not. I had an old chrysler that used to have bad brakes so it's an OCD habit for me. My first set of hawk hps went fast in the rear so after that I don't mind topping it off. I inspect my brakes every 10k anyway... pop the pads out etc. Gotcha, most folks never change their fluid which is BAD. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradlgt21 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 And this was with HPS pads? I find it hard to believe. Maybe with HP+ pads but definitely not with HPS. With my HP+ I would just make a few stops in the lot as soon as I pull out of the spot at 5mph and have never had a problem, even in sub-zero weather. I stand on the brakes and I don't even get thrown against my seat belt. I feel like the car should have stopped by now since I was only going about 35. If you STOOD on the brakes and they didn't grip, there is definitely something wrong and I don't think it is 100% due to your pads. -mike http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Dealer "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" In case I wasn't clear enough with my turn by turn description I never had to apply the brakes. The car is stick shift so for the most part to slow down from 35 to turning speed just takes a down shift into second. The first time I actually had to stop was when it wouldn't. Other then that I didn't tap my brake other then rolling to the stop sign leaving the parking lot. So unless them getting the breeze of 10 degree frigid air warms them up they need to be braked with a couple times before they bite. I was not saying they are complete garbage I was just saying you would be surprised how little you actually brake sometimes after leaving your place of origin. If you live in rural areas you first top might not happen until it's a deer. If you have this in mind when you leave that destination you can still run HPS or HP+ safely. Just drag the brakes a couple seconds when pulling out or give a quick little stab when no traffic is around to heat them up. But first stop tend to not be this pads shinning point, it's the hard hot stop when pushing the car that makes them worth it to some but not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Picked the car up yesterday, pedal feel improved somewhat but nothing groundbreaking. Not sure if it's due to valvoline being better than whatever they used at Meineke, or me having borderline boiled the brake fluid when hitting the brakes like a jackass, either way they will never feel as good as I expected them to be. The tech did comment he was expecting better from the set himself, he is a fan of Hawk, he wasn't sure why I'm not having that much luck on the Mini, he did make sure they were mounted right and all, must be that the compound simply isn't working as good with the OEM rotors? But he did say the car seems to be stopping safely, so ... Since the car does stop, just not as good, I'll leave it up to the wife to decide what she wants me to do. Needless to say it will be the last set I will buy. Oh, and when cold, so at first start-up in the morning, I can still squeeze the pedal all the way and bottom out the brake booster. After driving a while, this goes away or at least it is nowhere near as easy to do it. If the brake pedal is slammed, it is impossible to get it to bottom out. Can someone explain how pads can change the characteristics of the brake pedal travel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 solid rotors? vented? Slotted? I chose slotted with the hawks because I was so leery of gas building up and not stopping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Dude I am not even considering swapping the rotors, not before they are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Ok. I'm just theorizing that maybe hawk hps on solids may not be as good performance wise as hawk hps on slots or dots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieutenantcolumbo Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Ok. I'm just theorizing that maybe hawk hps on solids may not be as good performance wise as hawk hps on slots or dots Wouldn't you need to heat them up for that to be a factor? Kind of sounds like fish has poor performance cold or hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Ok. I'm just theorizing that maybe hawk hps on solids may not be as good performance wise as hawk hps on slots or dots I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 The moral is this. BMW apparently makes perfect cars that cannot be improved upon with aftermarket parts. rao however insists their motors are shitty and keeps swapping them out. Wife said this morning on the way to work they felt better, she likes them better, she has gotten used to them and for now at least she is OK. One aspect I loved about the Mini was the precise brake feel and stopping. That has been diminished now. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 You can bottom out the pedal when you're not moving and you apply the brakes? Hmmm...I wouldn't think pad choice would affect pedal travel when you're not even moving or warmed up, not unless the pad physically compresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 That sounds like a leak in the system to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Not sure exactly how many different times or ways I can reiterate this. There is nothing wrong with the braking system. It has worked perfect before and does so now. Don't overthing or overblow, in your mind, when I say I can bottom the pedal. Like I said it doesn't slap to the floor, it does not sink, but I can actuate enough to touch the bottom. I guess I have Hulk-like force in my legs. I damn well doubt swapping out brakepads suddenly ruins brake boosters, ABS units. My sanity yes. I cannot find the thread, I did not think to bookmark it, Google searches led me to a couple of boards where people reported different pedal feel. One of them later down the road swapped the rotors and went back to stock and the pedal was suddenly fine with no other change. This was not with Hawk pads but same story. OEM vs aftermarket. So I guess it happens on the Mini. I also found reports of inconsistent pedal feel amongst cars of the same year, model, trim etc etc. In other words one feels stiff and precise, another does not. Must be another "British car" quirk, like leaky oil pan gaskets. It ain't a true Brit if it ain't leakin some oil. All I can tell you is my pedal feel changed overnight when all was done was swapping pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Well, interesting thought, because I don't know BMW systems. I believe Subaru brakes are "self adjusting" in exactly that sense. Maybe BMW are not? That wouldn't indicate any malfunction, but still -- what made it different? If there's nothing wrong with the braking system, swap the pads out for OEMs, and solve the whole headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Fish - If this 10 page thread is a long-winded way of saying you need $25 bucks towards a better set of pads, I'm here for you my friend. I'll send you a check. Because otherwise, I have no idea why you've gone through multiple re-checks of the system, a fluid flush, and hours of time researching what can be ascribed to simply a set of brake pads that need to be replaced with something else. The MINI has phenomenal brakes and ruining that is feel is not worth the money - that's not a cheap car to be willing to replace one of its great features with crap on and leave it that way for years. Go with a set of Akebono proacts, cool carbon, whatever...but get the hawks out. P.s. Your MINI is not a BMW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Bbbut ... it says BMW AG all over it. Parts, chassis, booklet, everywhere! I went through all this because believe it or not I can't stand being told I'm wrong when I know I'm right. I went through it to also prove myself beyond doubt it is what I thought it was. But I agree, the pads will come out sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Fishbone's like me, stubborn and OCD and he wants to figure out the answer. Nothing wrong with that.... But that (pad swap) really would give you the answer. You have your crappy feeling brakes in right now and you believe it to be the pads. Simple thing to do: just swap out the HPS, put in OEM pads and go test it out. Do NOTHING else at all. No bleed, no flush, nada. Do not crack open the hydraulic system at all. Or did you do that already? I forget... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 I didn't. I'm not losing sleep over this and I have yet to drive the car myself after the second flush yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Drove the car this AM to work. The pads still suck. I feel that their operating temp is wrong and inadequate for regular street use in anything other than perhaps 90 degree weather. After a couple hard stops they work really well for a while, until they seem to cool down again. Maybe the Subaru, being heavier etc. has an easier time keeping them at the right temp, I don't know. Either way I am going back to stock. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Wish we were closer to each other geographically. Would love to give you a spin the LGT so we could compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 I am running the HPS in the LGT, on stock everything, Valvoline DOT 3/4 synthetic fluid. So basically the same set-up as on the Mini. They feel better on the LGT and always thought their dragging especially when cold was normal. The feeling is much more pronounced on the Mini which made pe reconsider the LGT and realize ... they are not as good as I thought. The best explanation I can give you is they feel as if they slide/slip on the rotors at part braking and do not grab/bite/whatever as good. I am sure the stockers on the Mini fade faster than the Hawks. I am sure the Hawk's temperature handling is better. However, that comes at a price. They do not seem to function as well in lower temps as the stock pads do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I know the dragging feeling you're talking about when the brakes are extremely cold. I only experience that in the winter time when the car's been sitting a day or two outside. But the dragging feeling doesn't appear to affect the braking performance for me in any way other than that I can feel that slide drag/grind through the pedal. It doesn't make me stop any slower. I attribute that to the slight rust corrosion that builds up on the rotors overnight and the pads wearing through it quickly on the first stop. Other than that, I've never had any sort of issues with the brakes having to warm up... Maybe I just have low standards/expectations of my brakes or other people have high standards.... I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieutenantcolumbo Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Fish when you do change back to the stock pads on the mini, please update the thread so that we'll definitively know whether or not it was the pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 I definitely will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Ordered the pads just today so most likely won't install them until next week-end the earliest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Hawk HPS pads are overrated , 5% better than stock , leave mad deposits on rotors giving bad shakes. Stoptech 10-15% better after about 3 months of break in they get much better, still need a lil warming up to get good And hp+ the best but tied with Stoptech pads in dust and warming up, but hp+ have a lil squeak , but best bite. Happy medium , Stoptech pads in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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