Max Capacity Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 IMO you have something else wrong in your brake system. I have had Hawk HPS pads and the slotted rotors that came off my 05 GT on the 09 Spec for 2 or 3000 miles now. They feel great. No dust build up like I used to have with OEM and Bendix Ceramic pads on the same slotted rotors. I remember my civic had some issues with braking and new pads, I ended up cutting off the wear indicators and the problem went away. Seemed like those things were hanging up in the spring clips. May be try removing them. After all, if you keep a eye on brake wear you don't need them. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 If it were a problem on just one car I'd tend to agree and that's why I never said anything about them on the LGT although I've had them for at least 2 years now. Where I was OK before, they just pissed me off on the Mini and fired up the forums to bitch and moan Speaking of wear indicators, I ought to check them and see how worn they are on the LGT. I definitely don't want to wait until I hear grinding. And the funny thing is, I had them changed when my Good Year Eagle F1 tires were making strange noises, only to find out they were cupped and there was a silent recall on them. So I have had all sorts of good luck with shitty products. If you value quiet tires, stay the hell away from F1s. I can't wait until it's time to swap them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 FWIW, I believe I have swapped my rear brake pads from the inside to the outside if they are wearing uneven. Not sure if the fronts will do that. Like most of us, I can't understand why you have spongy brakes. I also now have my slotted rotors cut down, re-surfaced on a flywheel cutter. It puts a better surface on them. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotokan1509 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 For those who dislike the hawks... have you found a better street pad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 And the funny thing is, I had them changed when my Good Year Eagle F1 tires were making strange noises, only to find out they were cupped and there was a silent recall on them. So I have had all sorts of good luck with shitty products. If you value quiet tires, stay the hell away from F1s. I can't wait until it's time to swap them. You have the Asymmetric or the old GS-D3? Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 I have the All Season tires. http://www.goodyeartires.com/tire/eaglef1-allseason/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 *phew* Thanks! Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 Taking this a bit off-topic, but hey! I sent them an e-mail in the off-chance they will help me out. I have 16K miles on them and they are howling. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Well, after about 1000 miles of brake in, my HPS are doing much better now. Took a little bit longer to find their groove. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Well, I decided that a change of pads alone probably wasn't going to do it, so.... http://i.imgur.com/hgQb8.jpg http://i.imgur.com/t3dvB.jpg http://i.imgur.com/DWNTy.jpg CP5200 calipers, APF404 pads and 330x28 disks. Would have preferred plain disks but couldn't get them. Still have the HPS in the back though. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martymcfly Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Nice. Was it close in order to clear your wheels? I Weighed an 04 STi Brembo caliper vs an FHI 4-pot and the Brembo was significantly lighter. How did your new calipers fare out against the OEM sliders in terms of weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Sorry for the OT excursion guys. I'll try to make up for it with a report on the pads when they bed in. I think there is a sticky BBK FAQ thread that has the weight info. Subjectively, the APs feel like polystyrene models compared to the stockers. Of course some of that saving is offset with the bigger disks, and disk mass was a big part of my decision to upgrade. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Don't have time to read the whole thread. Bought R1 concepts rotors + Hawk HPS pads. Had previously replaced OEM pads with Hawk HPS pads, keeping OEM rotors. For whatever reason, R1 rotors + HPS pads were horrible. Seems to only be gripping outer 1/2 inch of the rotor on the front. Had a mechanic install it who's supposed to be ok for general stuff, and brakes are pretty generic. Sold those that rotor/pad combo (front only) to someone off the board here with LOTS of disclaimers for $50. He seems happy. Replaced it with liteswap.com blanks, Carbotech Bobcat pads all around (OEM rears were worn out at that point). Been happier - that first "panic" stop in commute traffic is MUCH less scary. With the Hawk, I feared for my life sometimes. It's true - once warmed up after 1-3 longer stops, they're ok/good. That FIRST application was brutal and scary. Cruise for 15+ minutes, all of a sudden have to hit the brakes hard, and your heart goes to your throat.. I'm about 75% happy now (just added the Grimmspeed MBC bracket). However, after extended stop-and-go traffic (braking 50+ times in 30-40 minutes, including some hard stops), the car will pull somewhat to the right. At first thought it was a caliper (others have reported calipers going around 80K-100K miles), had them replaced with OEM rebuilts. Same symptoms, although not as bad. Lines need replacing? Or pads/rotors getting heat soaked? I guess a BBK is next, although no idea if the wife will go for it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 For those who dislike the hawks... have you found a better street pad? I've been happier with Carbotech Bobcats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 My suspicion, assuming that your brakes are properly bled and installed, is that your pulling to the right is not brake related. I would suspect tires, alignment, suspension, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 ^Not sure who you're addressing to. Everything checked out on my car. All issues went away upon going back to OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 My suspicion, assuming that your brakes are properly bled and installed, is that your pulling to the right is not brake related. I would suspect tires, alignment, suspension, etc. Suspension is currently (a wagon): stock springs, Koni shocks. Cobb sways front and rear on soft settings. But it only happens after 20-30 brake applications in a short period of time, and overall braking capability is somewhat reduced when it does happen (i.e. feels like fade, just uneven). It doesn't happen most days - most days I have great braking. It only happens when I've really had to hit the brakes a lot during the (sometimes brutal) commute home - 45-50 minutes to go 20 miles. With little sprints at 60-70 mph, quick slowdowns to 20 mph, etc. If it happens, it's ONLY during the last 3-4 miles. NEVER at the start. And next morning - good as new. The following work was done (rough order) over the last 8-10 months. Feb (IIRC) - replace original calipers with "rebuilt" after one day when it was REALLY bad on the theory that it was a sticking caliper. Result: better, but not 100% gone, still felt it at times. This included new fluid. May: new Michelin Pilot AS+ tires all around (it was time for a new set). Still happens occasionally. Aug: alignment inspected by (from what I can tell) a very reputable racing-based alignment shop. They were aligning race cars, Porsches, Cobra replicas, etc left and right. One of the few shops in the area to do tire shaving, they mentioned they do a lot of Subarus, etc. Had Whiteline steering rack bushings for the Legacy in stock, ordered Whiteline LCA bushings. Installed both, did front wheel alignment. Apparently rear did not need alignment (according to them). Also installed (used) Avo and Kartboy endlinks to replaced OEM endlinks. Still get fade occasionally. Never on the first 5-10 applications, just after a bunch of repeated stop-and-go. Sep: was involved in a 5-car pileup. I stopped in time (with full control, no fading - near the beginning of the commute). Car 2 behind me did not, pushed car in between into me, me into car in front, etc.. $5K damage. Car repaired. Suspension supposedly not affected. Car drives great, corners great, etc. Aug/Sep: installed Grimmspeed MCA bracket. Better overall feel. I think I was just starting to feel it last week after my 45 minute commute in traffic as I got to my exit and pulled off. The car corners great, takes on/off ramps well with no unexpected movement, generally tracks the road quite well. Just after a bunch of braking, I get what I guess I would call fade, but noticeably unevenly. Note: when replacing calipers in Feb, re-used existing rotors/pads (by visual inspection, appear fine). I swapped pads/rotors myself just over 2 years ago - fronts are probably due for another replacements of pads next summer (I usually do new rotors at that point). So, I'm trying to figure out if I should go with another Bobcat/OEM style blank combo, or consider upgrading to a BBK for better heat dissipation? Overall, I do drive somewhat aggressively on my commute (otherwise, people cut in front of me left and right). When it was really bad in Feb (before placing calipers), it felt like I lost almost 50% of my braking capability. It hasn't been that bad since replacing the calipers, but I still worry that it will come back at some point and when I really need the brakes, they won't be there. Could I have glazed the pads, but it only shows up when they're really hot? Am I over-heating the pads and getting fade? Am I just braking too often for a street setup? I really like the initial bite of the Bobcats at low temps. Just wish they'd hold up for a full drive home..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 HPS w/stock rotors - brake torque is higher than stock, slightly better modulation under high pressure. It's still no M3, but they work better. The factory brakes in this car are shit, the only thing about them that's good is the rotor sizes are relatively large. I don't see getting huge improvements without replacing everything from the vacuum booster all the way do to the rotors. -edit- oh and the stupid ABS/EBD controller to. EBD works like crap in this car as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 There's no way you're overheating those pads on a commute. That's why I was suspicious of other causes. You could indeed be glazing them by braking hard to a stop and then staying stopped for a period, you can build up deposits very quickly under the pad there. The things I've done on(to) Bobcats without even a hint of heat fade kind of kills the idea that you're over heating them. They also have a VERY distinct smell -- if you get near heat fade, you'll know it quick, it'll stink to high hell just like it should have when you bedded them in. My guess is you're actually getting deposits as you drive, and that caliper clamps a bit better than the rest, so you're just trapping hot gas/etc under the pad, and then getting stopped in traffic, and getting a pad deposit. Do you ever notice visible "pad marks" on the rotors after a particularly bad commute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 There's no way you're overheating those pads on a commute. That's why I was suspicious of other causes. You could indeed be glazing them by braking hard to a stop and then staying stopped for a period, you can build up deposits very quickly under the pad there. The things I've done on(to) Bobcats without even a hint of heat fade kind of kills the idea that you're over heating them. They also have a VERY distinct smell -- if you get near heat fade, you'll know it quick, it'll stink to high hell just like it should have when you bedded them in. My guess is you're actually getting deposits as you drive, and that caliper clamps a bit better than the rest, so you're just trapping hot gas/etc under the pad, and then getting stopped in traffic, and getting a pad deposit. Do you ever notice visible "pad marks" on the rotors after a particularly bad commute? Don't underestimate hard stops from 75+ and then waiting with pressure on the brakes at a red light.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogos Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 had hawks on previous car for the street and EBC yellow stuff for the track days. Not even in the same league IMHO. ANything from build quality, fitment, even stupid things like paint overspray - EBC where MUCH better. They were stopping very heavy car with shitty stock calipers and ATE blue fluid with almost no faid on 20min runs with very agressive braking ( consecutive 80-90mph braking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 had hawks on previous car for the street and EBC yellow stuff for the track days. Not even in the same league IMHO. ANything from build quality, fitment, even stupid things like paint overspray - EBC where MUCH better. They were stopping very heavy car with shitty stock calipers and ATE blue fluid with almost no faid on 20min runs with very agressive braking ( consecutive 80-90mph braking). Are you comparing Hawk HPS or Hawk HP+ to the EBC? -mike http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://upload.pbase.com/image/137566671.jpg Call directly for your best Whiteline Price! | We also carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyscoodle Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I really like the EBC yellowstuff FAR better than hawk HPS. I had HPS on stock brakes then switched to the yellows and it was a huge difference. I'm currently on a full brembo swap with HPS (not by choice, picked up brembos off a member with HPS) and while it obviously outcompetes the stock/HPS setup it still lacks the initial bite and predictability the yellows had. I will definitely run the yellows in the brembos once the HPS are done. I used the yellows on the street and track with no issues aside from dust as expected. Very quiet on the street and hardly required any warmup. (I hardly drive in temps below 20F) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher0117 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I will be needing some new front pads within the next couple of months. Scoobyscoodle what rotors do you use your ebc yellowstuff on? Those pads seem very attractive for 98% street and 2% track use that I would likely do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyscoodle Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I just used them on my oem rotors that were turned. They may cause slightly more rotor wear than HPS, but I liked them because the dust is similar to HPS but they were quieter in my experience and the performance was definitely better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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