fishbone Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 I got shafted on the price, my fault for not shopping around, the OEM set I was able to score for $150 shipped WITH the wear sensors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08LGT80 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 i am running my hawks with stock rotors and flushed the brake system w/ new fluid. not impressed at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Hawk HPS pads are overrated , 5% better than stock , leave mad deposits on rotors giving bad shakes. Stoptech 10-15% better after about 3 months of break in they get much better, still need a lil warming up to get good And hp+ the best but tied with Stoptech pads in dust and warming up, but hp+ have a lil squeak , but best bite. Happy medium , Stoptech pads in my book. They have 5% more 15%! What are these percentages representing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil2k2 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 They have 5% more 15%! What are these percentages representing? the drivers best guess at improvement there are a lot of complex math calculations that go into a percentage like that, probably over both our heads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I had slotted rotors put on at the same time as my hawk hps pads... I have had zero problems stopping... only with the rear set wearing out too soon the first time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 the drivers best guess at improvement there are a lot of complex math calculations that go into a percentage like that, probably over both our heads... Improvement of what though? Stopping distance? Friction consistency? Overall friction? Temperature range? Sweet looking paint on the backing plate? Hawk actually does advertise their pads as like "20% better than OEM" or something, and I always wondered what they meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 I don't know what Nissan uses for OEM pads but I drove mom's Rogue yesterday and man ... didn't realize how shitty the Mini stops now. The Nissan's are exactly like what they used to be, very grabby, almost an on/off feeling, not much pedal pressure needed and I also noticed the pedal behaves the same as in the Mini which set my mind at ease. If you're at a stop (and this is easier when the car is cold), you can bottom out the brake booster if you keep squeezing it hard. No such luck on the Legacy. Different builds I guess. I remember I was able to do that on my 3rd gen Altima too and kinda bothered me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Hawk actually does advertise their pads as like "20% better than OEM" or something, and I always wondered what they meant. Probably nothing since it's such a generic statement which seems to cover pads from a Toyota Corolla to a Nissan GTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Hawk hps pads take craps on you rotors, leaving more deposits on rotors than stock with a small increase in bite, with less heating up than stockers. The Stoptech pads take lil more heating up and dustier for sure, and a lil rough for a couple months, but deposit seem to be far less on rotors and seem to get better with time. The more deposits on rotor the more shakes u git. Hp+ have great bite and about 15% better bite but squeak. I found the you can do the rebeed process with Stoptech or hp+ , but hps just leave shit on your rotors, there for not being able get rid of shakes. The pad u pick will eventually determine your brake shake and having to constantly turn or cut rotors. Remember rotors don't warp because there made of Adamantium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalyst Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 <3 my Stoptechs. They are dusty for sure, but if you wash your car on a regular basis who cares. "This is an adventure." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Hawk hps pads take craps on you rotors, leaving more deposits on rotors than stock with a small increase in bite, with less heating up than stockers. The Stoptech pads take lil more heating up and dustier for sure, and a lil rough for a couple months, but deposit seem to be far less on rotors and seem to get better with time. The more deposits on rotor the more shakes u git. Hp+ have great bite and about 15% better bite but squeak. I found the you can do the rebeed process with Stoptech or hp+ , but hps just leave shit on your rotors, there for not being able get rid of shakes. The pad u pick will eventually determine your brake shake and having to constantly turn or cut rotors. Remember rotors don't warp because there made of Adamantium.I drive hard sometimes on my Hawk HPS pads, and I drive in NYC as well and I don't find my HPS pads leaving deposits....Also, no way in hell they leave more (IF ANY) deposits than stock. You're smoking crack if you think Hawk HPS are worse in terms of deposits than the crappy Hitachi brand stockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I drive hard sometimes on my Hawk HPS pads, and I drive in NYC as well and I don't find my HPS pads leaving deposits....Also, no way in hell they leave more (IF ANY) deposits than stock. You're smoking crack if you think Hawk HPS are worse in terms of deposits than the crappy Hitachi brand stockers. I agree. I also have a few 100 clients who would vouch for the same experience here in the NY/NJ region as well. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverspeed Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I'm with the fish on this one. I picked up some hawks and new rotors and installed them last summer after reading many positive reviews on this site. Not only did I feel like they sucked, the fronts are now screaming when I brake. I checked them out yesterday, and they are just about gone. Not to mention they couldn't stop the car in the winter before heating up. I almost drove into traffic twice leaving work while cold. Back to el cheapo pads this week. No big deal, lesson learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I agree my hps pads sucked in my opinion, went thru 2 sets of rotors, stock recut and rb Racing slotted rotors and hps deposits gave me the shakes like crazy, recut rotors then 2 weeks later shakes. Got brembos now with stoptechs n APM racing sti spec c type rotors no shakes , stop good. :-), the hp+ were great just squeaky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 To those of you having HPS chew up the rotors, it sounds like you did some combination of: Not resurfacing the rotors when you switched pad materials Not bedding in the pads Too much low speed stop & go without re-bedding pads "Performance" pads need some maintenance, or you will strip the friction material transferred on the rotor off and then start chewing up the rotor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Sounds like if I'm not doing any auto-x or track days, I'm probably better off going with some "lifetime" pads from Advance Auto or similar? Sheesh, who woulda thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Sounds like if I'm not doing any auto-x or track days, I'm probably better off going with some "lifetime" pads from Advance Auto or similar? Sheesh, who woulda thought? The hps are NOT track or autox. They are street pads and do not need heating up. The hp+ are the ones which need heating up and are autox and track oriented pads. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Agreed. Never felt like I needed the HPS to heat up, and I've been through some cold winters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 To those of you having HPS chew up the rotors, it sounds like you did some combination of: Not resurfacing the rotors when you switched pad materials Not bedding in the pads Too much low speed stop & go without re-bedding pads "Performance" pads need some maintenance, or you will strip the friction material transferred on the rotor off and then start chewing up the rotor. So what you are saying is they should come with a disclaimer and/or not be recommended to those with daily driven cars that spend most of their driving time in city traffic. Do absolutely and without exception all performance pads need periodic maintenance? And by performance I don't mean race, but street. Do Stoptechs need periodic maintenance? These are genuine questions. If the answer is no, then Hawks get another fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Yes, my Carbotechs came with instructions for exactly that, and I know Stoptech's website has similar information. See "Prevention" here: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 The link speaks of proper bed-in, not periodic maintenance, as in, every now and then you have to redo the bed-in procedure. I would seriously hate it if I had to do that with a pad. In other related news, the stock pads for the Mini should be delivered today or tomorrow, once installed I will come back with impressions as I promised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Nah, have to keep reading: Depending upon the friction compound, easy use of the brakes for an extended period may lead to the removal of the transfer layer on the discs by the abrasive action of the pads. When we are going to exercise a car that has seen easy brake use for a while, a partial re-bedding process will prevent uneven pick up. The driver can feel a 0.0004" deposit or TV on the disc. 0.001" is annoying. More than that becomes a real pain. When deposit are present, by having isolated regions that are proud of the surface and running much hotter than their neighbors, cementite inevitably forms and the local wear characteristics change which results in ever increasing TV and roughness. Other than proper break in, as mentioned above, never leave your foot on the brake pedal after you have used the brakes hard. This is not usually a problem on public roads simply because, under normal conditions, the brakes have time to cool before you bring the car to a stop (unless, like me, you live at the bottom of a long steep hill). In any kind of racing, including autocross and "driving days" it is crucial. Regardless of friction material, clamping the pads to a hot stationary disc will result in material transfer and discernible "brake roughness". What is worse, the pad will leave the telltale imprint or outline on the disc and your sin will be visible to all and sundry. The obvious question now is "is there a "cure" for discs with uneven friction material deposits?" The answer is a conditional yes. If the vibration has just started, the chances are that the temperature has never reached the point where cementite begins to form. In this case, simply fitting a set of good "semi-metallic" pads and using them hard (after bedding) may well remove the deposits and restore the system to normal operation but with upgraded pads. If only a small amount of material has been transferred i.e. if the vibration is just starting, vigorous scrubbing with garnet paper may remove the deposit. As many deposits are not visible, scrub the entire friction surfaces thoroughly. Do not use regular sand paper or emery cloth as the aluminum oxide abrasive material will permeate the cast iron surface and make the condition worse. Do not bead blast or sand blast the discs for the same reason. This is specifically addressing "warped rotor" feel, but it applies to braking as well. When the abrasive action of the pad strips the friction material transferred to the disc, it's the same as driving without having bedded the pads in, which will lead to poor braking overall, and ultimately trashing your rotors & pads if you don't address it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedinfaq.shtml This is probably a better article for the specific question here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 The hps are NOT track or autox. They are street pads and do not need heating up. The hp+ are the ones which need heating up and are autox and track oriented pads. Mike Understood, Mike. However, it sounds as if the HPS and other "street" pads from Carbotech, et al, have more cons than pros for a 100% street car. I never mentioned anything about needing to be heated up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 In other related news, the stock pads for the Mini should be delivered today or tomorrow, once installed I will come back with impressions as I promised. Remember, don't do ANYTHING ELSE except swap out the pads. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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