cww516 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I've been considering picking up a set of donors to put together dedicated summer (Koni+???) and winter (stock) sets as well, so the last chunk of posts have been pretty relevant to my interests. My main concern has been winter ride height as well (in addition to bottoming out on bumps, but I understand that stiffer springs and better damping should counter the drop and prevent that). Just gotta dig up GTEASER's wheel/tire specs (I'm leaning toward H&R springs, the extra drop will counter my 3/8" lift from the taller tires) and see what he has/needed to keep camber in check, then all that's left is a good dose of self-enabling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) ^just return them outright. FA's are junk. there are better options out there. Not according to a WRX guy who has them on his DD and his track car (not autocross but open track days). There is at least one person on here who has them and says they work just fine. This is first hand information. I can't return them as they were custom built, but FA is at least willing to work with me. If I went with anything else, it would be the factory setup. It is great out of the box. Edited July 8, 2015 by fredrik94087 "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Not according to some WRX guys who have them on their DD and their track car (not autocross but open track days). There is at least one person on here who has them and says they work just fine. I'm willing to wager that none of these people have run higher quality CO's to compare them to. This site is full of people who buy off the shelf systesm, live with them and say they are fine, even though they arent if they were to compare them to a truly good damper system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee199969 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'm willing to wager that none of these people have run higher quality CO's to compare them to. This site is full of people who buy off the shelf systesm, live with them and say they are fine, even though they arent if they were to compare them to a truly good damper system. I'll vouch for fredrik and say that he does a decent amount of research into suspension components and holds their performance in high regard My "Build" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 well "a bunch of people say its good" does not mean it is good when it comes to shocks. there is alot of misleading info on the webs regarding shocks. i see it everyday. I just dont like seeing people being misled with inaccurate information, even if it's sang by a chorus. I come from the world of national level competitive autox, and fortune auto is not even on the radar as a quality brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) well "a bunch of people say its good" does not mean it is good when it comes to shocks. there is alot of misleading info on the webs regarding shocks. i see it everyday. I just dont like seeing people being misled with inaccurate information, even if it's sang by a chorus. I come from the world of national level competitive autox, and fortune auto is not even on the radar as a quality brand. You win ...not. BTW, my car is off the shelf and will get mostly off the shelf components. I have never used Fortune Auto coilovers, but having read a 5th gen members opinion of his own set and having spoken to someone who runs a set on his DD and on his track car (not autocross), I am willing to give it a go. I have not yet read or spoken with someone who has actually used them and has warned me not to. Here is first hand information. KW v1 or RCE tarmac zeros will sweat at 20,000 miles (7 track days in there). Konis are quite durable as DD and the original set I built are on their third 5th gen. What first hand information would you like to share with the rest of us from your world of national competitive level autox? Edited July 8, 2015 by fredrik94087 "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Not trying to be condescending nor am I trying to "win" anything. Ive been through the world of aftermarket coilovers, and have installed and ridden in many of them, from krappy k-sports all the way up to $8k penskes. Some off the shelf parts are perfectly fine. Shocks like koni and bilstein will almost always be quality parts. But when you start looking at these small companies that make cheap coilover kits closely, you see things that you don't want to have on your car. the tolerances and parts/materials required to make a performance shock have a minimum cost to them. So when you see a CO system selling for $1200(probably costs 800 or less to actually make) which includes springs and mounting hardware, how much of the cost went in to shock valving tech? The answer is not a lot. In fact that off the shelf koni/bilstein probably has more invested in valving then that cheap CO system. In fact if you were to dyno those cheap CO's, they would be all over the place. Koni and bilstein are large enough companies to make consistent parts affordable, otherwise you have to spend more from a small company like the ones i listed to get quality parts. Read this and this in particular All the guys i directly compete with, including national champions, run those brands, along with Moton, MCS and JRZ, on their street driven cars because the car is balanced due to equal shock forces from quality parts. I personally have had Tein flex on my LGT(which as i learned, turned out to be crap) and then AST4100's, which had nearly 50% stiffer spring rates , but felt more comfortable on the street due to proper damping forces. Edited July 9, 2015 by whitetiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'm being a aggressive at asserting my opinion here because most people only have a limited understanding of shocks. Sure, most here will never even drive the car on the limit let alone see a track or autox, but the things that make a good shock for racing are the same that make it good for the street. Hell, most people dont even realize that konis are rebound-only adjustable and that playing with the setting wont change how hard the initial compression hits when going over bumps, or even that the adjustment is not linear across the range towards the extremes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cww516 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4409422&postcount=68 Granted, that's just one second-hand data point, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) on this page, 1st hand data pont in the koni section dyno plot through the adjutment. That being said, the ubiquitous Koni Yellow is actually a decent shock for the price. The off-the-shelf valving is usually pretty good, the knob is rebound-only... backed up by a real dyno plot. the amount of crosstalk to compression is so small, its not even worth talking about. Edited July 8, 2015 by whitetiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cww516 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Huh, good to know, thanks. Kinda curious as to where fahr_side got his info from now. I'd have to assume that a Koni yellow is a Koni yellow in that regard, as opposed to some models having "sliding scale" sdjustment and some being rebound-only, wouldn't make much sense for them to change the guts that much across such a wide product line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) ^exactly. now you know what im talking about when i say there is a lot of incorrect info/understanding out there regarding shocks. Koni yellow are the same mechanism, though some are body twist adjust, and some are knob adjust, just different valving forces for different applications. Edited July 8, 2015 by whitetiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCrash Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 You know I was happy enough with the fact that I had researched the springs I want and now all this info comes out which only makes me keep thinking. This site not only enables my need for wanting more toys, it backorders and rainchecks my ideas so my wallet stays empty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityGear Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 whitetiger spits hot fire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon.mol Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Read this and this in particular I found this article very informative. Thanks for sharing this. This is definitely helpful info for our Koni-clad brethren: I'm willing to apply a little common sense here: nonlinearity at the extremes of the adjuster is OK as long as there is SOME portion of the range that is linear. Konis usually pass this, with the caveat that the last half-turn before full hard is usually VERY nonlinear (with very small adjustments making very large force changes) and the last half-to-full turn before full soft usually doesn't do very much. Edited July 8, 2015 by brandon.mol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Again, exactly why i keep asserting my position. Im glad to have passed on the info. read that whole site. its worth the time taken. I just want to get people informed so they understand what they are buying when it comes to shocks and crappy discount coilovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrD123 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 so do you have to add water to the struts that have good dampening properties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 hardy har har Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrD123 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 damping force, not dampening force. (you aren't making things moist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 yes, i realized that. saying it improperly over the years has forced me to type it improperly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Thanks for the link on shocks. Please check this page and let me know if you still think fortunes are crap. http://www.fortune-auto.com/shockdynobasics.htm I will be changing my set for wrx coilovers. If you still feel they are useless, I can sell the wrx set easier than the legacy set. Thoughts on the ohlins road and track coilovers? "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstik Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 fred that link is great. i feel like i just learned a whole bunch about shocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the link on shocks. Please check this page and let me know if you still think fortunes are crap. http://www.fortune-auto.com/shockdynobasics.htm I will be changing my set for wrx coilovers. If you still feel they are useless, I can sell the wrx set easier than the legacy set. Thoughts on the ohlins road and track coilovers? I am familiar with fortue-auto. the 500 series is no better than your average BC or ISC unit, which indeed are crap. you just arent going to get a good CO set for $1200, and they certainly wont send you matched pairs for that price. once you remove the cost of the body hardware and springs and mounts, you are left with shocks that cost less than Koni yellows. the 510 series is better, but their dreadnought pro series 2/3 way shows some promise. Ohlins is a way better choice, but there are some other options as well for you 5th gen guys who want somthing good since it seems you can use wrx stuff. AST4100s - http://usa.ast-suspension.com/webshop/shock-absorbers-by-make/subaru/subaru-impreza-ge-gh-gr-gv-non-sti/ast-1-way-4100-subaru-impreza-ge-gh-gr-gv-non-sti-detail JRZ makes a bunch of diferent models for the wrx - http://www.jrzsuspension.com/vehicle-applications/142-subaru-wrx-sti-n15.html MCS 1-way non-remotes - http://www.motioncontrolsuspension.com/products/prices.html Edited July 9, 2015 by whitetiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 BTW any company with a dyno can make 1 shock that looks good on a chart. the trick is to make a set of shocks the same on that dyno. how good are a set of shocks if both on 6 clicks produce wildly different forces. not good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstik Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 BTW any company with a dyno can make 1 shock that looks good on a chart. the trick is to make a set of shocks the same on that dyno. they said for an extra $100 they will test your shocks before they send them to you I assume that means they will test a set to make sure they are all within spec. the question is how tight their tolerances are for the specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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