s2baru Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Well there goes that idea then, caR pushes enough as it is at autoX. If anything I want the rear to come around more. Suggestions?? Just go balanced rates all around then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I would. To each his own alignment, anti-sway bars, and tires...which all play a part in it. 400# F/R would be ideal for street and some track use. 350# is great on the street. Why don't you just get tein springs for the rear? Call them and check with their tech to find out the range of springs that can be run on their street basis. You may be able to bump the rear up by 50# and leave the front alone without going to a different coilover. And, alignment, alignment, alignment. If you don't run enough negative camber in the front along with enough pressure, the tire will just roll over. I was running my fronts at -2 and rears at -1.5 with 42#/40# F/R tire pressures(that is hot tire pressure). 26mm front and 23mm rear anti-sway bar. Also, my car was 45/55 F/R biased. Yours is 50/50. With those exact settings as mine, you will be fine. For auto-x, since it takes some time for the tires to get hot, you may want to start at 40#/38# F/R while waiting your turn. Check your tire temps and pressures right after your run. "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Well there goes that idea then, caR pushes enough as it is at autoX. If anything I want the rear to come around more. Suggestions?? Just go balanced rates all around then? what tires are you running for autox? that will be the difference between push and turn. FWIW, if you are understeering, you never want to decrease rear grip to fix it. you always want to increase front grip. Just because your spring rates are balanced, does not mean the car is balanced. odds are you have too much forward weight transfer still, which if dealt with poorly, will overwhelm the front tires. 80% of this is how you drive the car. Also if you are going on throttle too early, the car will just understeer anyways. the solution to all this is.. 1. change your driving style to suit the amount of front grip you have. Have patience with the throttle and brake enough for corner entry. 2. get better tires. If you arent on Bridgestone RE-71R, BFg Rivals S, Dunlop Z2 StarSpec, or similar, then really this needs to be #1 3. increase front grip. the front needs more roll resistance, so a bigger bar will help spread the load of the tires, and even a front spring force increase will help as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) And autox is going to be a rather different setup than track. I autox'ed my car with my current setup (springs, shocks, tires, sway bars) in March 2014 and it pushed BAD at that venue. At Sears Point (same setup and alignment as the autox) it only pushed in Turn 11, the hairpin, on exit, otherwise it was nicely balanced everywhere else on track. Before Laguna Seca last month I added 0.5 degree of negative camber in front and it didn't push at all, even in the slow speed tight corners. One of the dynamics you want to think about is that front McPherson strut geometry tends to lose camber on suspension compression. Our rear multi-link geometry tends to increase camber on suspension compression. Edited July 1, 2015 by GTEASER GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) what tires are you running for autox? that will be the difference between push and turn. the solution to all this is.. 1. change your driving style to suit the amount of front grip you have. Have patience with the throttle and brake enough for corner entry. 2. get better tires. If you arent on Bridgestone RE-71R, BFg Rivals S, Dunlop Z2 StarSpec, or similar, then really this needs to be #1 This. The legacy takes a bit longer to settle. The heavy front with stuff hanging over it doesn't help. Smooth brake. Smooth throttle. Not slow...just smooth. Yes, tire compound/width can change balance. This happened to me recently with my wrx. I went from 235/45 to 275/40 and ended up with a bit more understeer. Granted, I was pushing the car harder through the same turn which affected body roll which affected **** which affected ****. **** = I don't know enough about the suspension to fill in the blanks, but you get the idea. Edited July 1, 2015 by GTEASER "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) ^well, were you faster? odds are you were had you compared both tire setups on the same day back to back. remember, these car will always understeer on tarmac when the limit is reach on corner entry. push /= bad, but rather a change of driving style is needed. these cars need a point/shoot driving style with hard and late straight line braking into a turn with maybe a little trail braking. trying to carve, or apply power before the apex or corner exit wont work, especially since there are no LSDs to help put power down. and tire compound trumps tire width EVERY TIME. Edited July 1, 2015 by whitetiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 ^^ This is exactly what I was doing at Laguna Seca, late hard braking while staying in a relatively straight line, late turn-in with a little trail braking and then power down hard from before the apex, and my lap times got better. No push at all, just a little 4 wheel drift, or wiggling while trail braking at the edge of tire adhesion, but nicely balanced and predictable. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2baru Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Whitetiger. I never purchased a 'specfic' autoX tire for compounds since I do it maybe 2-5times a summer. I have bfg g_force comp2 right now, wayyyy more responsive to steering input than all-seasons I have on normally. Whenever someone rides with me they always say I drive pretty smooth and it doesn't "feel fast" but my tines are right there, or slightly better than comparable cars. Maybe Im braking too hard before turning in and that's causing me to understeer. Any changes I should make to my sways? I have both front and rear adjustable 24f 22r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Brake more before you turn in. you are carrying too much speed in to the turn. So either slow down more(brake earlier), or get a tire that can handle your corner entry speed you wish to drive at. playing with bars or spring rates will just slow you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Managing grip levels and cornering forces is where driving skill comes in to play. when you know where the grip is and at what speed you can turn the wheel X amount, you will put down faster times and the tire is what determines maximum grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2baru Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Makes total sense. We shall see how things go if I can make it to our next event on the 11th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 here some reading for you to get in the right mindset. http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets3.html http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets3_5.html http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets4.html http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets12.html http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets7.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2baru Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Gracias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTMKE Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 New LGT owner and looking to upgrade the suspension to compliment a cobb AP and downpipe I plan to get this year. This forum has a lot of information but the majority of it seems to be specific advice for individual goals/situations. After reading about 30 pages trying to find what I was looking for I figured I'd just ask instead. I drive my car in Wisconsin so snow and salt are an annual occurrance. I use my car as a daily driver, take it on a few road trips a year and don't plan to race/autox it anytime soon. Given how and where I use it, I'm looking for basic mods to make it less of a boat when cornering but still need the ground clearance for snow and plush ride for road trips / daily driving. What mods should I look into? RSB, FSB, struts, springs?? Something along the lines of 'best bang for your buck' is what I'm looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityGear Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 New LGT owner and looking to upgrade the suspension to compliment a cobb AP and downpipe I plan to get this year. This forum has a lot of information but the majority of it seems to be specific advice for individual goals/situations. After reading about 30 pages trying to find what I was looking for I figured I'd just ask instead. I drive my car in Wisconsin so snow and salt are an annual occurrance. I use my car as a daily driver, take it on a few road trips a year and don't plan to race/autox it anytime soon. Given how and where I use it, I'm looking for basic mods to make it less of a boat when cornering but still need the ground clearance for snow and plush ride for road trips / daily driving. What mods should I look into? RSB, FSB, struts, springs?? Something along the lines of 'best bang for your buck' is what I'm looking for. RCE Springs and RCE Bilsteins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee199969 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 whiteline 22mm RSB or 20mm 2015 WRX RSB work just fine. how much of a drop do you want? The RCE blacks give an initial 0.75"ish drop and settles to about 1". H&R springs are also popular and give about a 1.2"ish drop I'd say the koni struts are more cost efficient vs the Bilsteins now that racecomp has raised the price on the bilsteins. The benefit of the bilsteins is you dont have to modify a strut housing. The benefit of the Konis is that you can adjust the dampening to your liking, and if you do autox/track it, you can adjust the dampening then. My "Build" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon.mol Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 If you want to maintain ground clearance, swap your springs for 2014 Legacy springs (which are a lot firmer feeling), and get some Koni inserts. I'm running 2014 springs and Bilsteins and happy with it, but the Bilsteins are harsher than the konis, more expensive (currently) and not adjustable. Ground clearance was important to me too, so I swapped out my RCE black springs for the 2014 springs and don't regret it for a minute. They ride much better and it corners just as well in the driving I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTMKE Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 If you want to maintain ground clearance, swap your springs for 2014 Legacy springs (which are a lot firmer feeling), and get some Koni inserts. Ground clearance was important to me too, so I swapped out my RCE black springs for the 2014 springs and don't regret it for a minute. They ride much better and it corners just as well in the driving I do. Seems like if I grab some stock springs from the 2014 LGT with Koni inserts combined with a rear sway bar from a 2015 WRX - put these three mods on my '11 LGT and BAM! .... much better ride/cornering and still the same ride height? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee199969 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 If you decide to go with koni inserts, if you havent already this is a good read: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/koni-shock-strut-epic-engineering-spring-install-145744.html I had GTEASER do mine since he had fabbed some front struts before and had all the tools necessary to do the job. The rears are a simple dis-assembly of the OEM rears and re-assembly. My "Build" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTMKE Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Man that seems like a lot of work for a first mod haha. After reading around a bit more I think I'll throw on a new rear sway bar for starters and see how I like it. Simple, straightforward and doesn't compromise clearance or ride plushness. Should I hunt down a stock '15 WRX RSB or look for an aftermarket one that fits that model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee199969 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) I personally have the 20mm 2015 WRX RSB and it feels pretty nice, the rear is more flat in turns. There are alotta members running the whiteline 22mm adjustable RSB, and they enjoy that as well Edited July 7, 2015 by Zee199969 My "Build" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripstik Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 There are alotta members running the whiteline 22 adjustable RSB, and they enjoy that as well i love mine. it makes the car oversteer when coming out of a really hard turn on the power rather than understeer which i feel is much more controllable... and useful especially in an awd car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTMKE Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 My thought was 22 might be a little overkill for my needs, I think 20 is a happy medium. If I go with the 20mm, should I go with a whiteline or '15 WRX bar? I heard the kartboy endlinks only fit in the stiffest setting for the whiteline bar, thus making the 'adjustable' feature useless. Any experience or has anyone heard about this problem? Also, with the WRX RSB, are kartboy endlinks still the way to go? (pic isn't mine, found it somewhere on these forums) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee199969 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The kartboy endlinks are definitely beefy. I'm running my stock endlinks with 20mm RSB with no issues, though I don't track nor autox my car. My "Build" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cww516 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Same here, albeit on otherwise stock suspension. Also, inb4 GTEASER says to get Moog endlinks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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