mbcracken Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 goneskiian: You're in a tough spot there...Free oil changes from a questionable dealership. Let's just hope their tech's are better then the sales reps. Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006Specb122 Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Get a fumoto oil valve and a 5 quart jug. Now my oil changes cost me about $15. I do them myself in about 20 minutes and I know someoen who cares is pouring and draining properly. My dealership does by four oil filters get one free so the price on those isn't terrible either. I'd rather do it myself then pay any dealership to do it, especially a shady one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneskiian Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 goneskiian: You're in a tough spot there...Free oil changes from a questionable dealership. Let's just hope their tech's are better then the sales reps. Cheers, Mike Yeah, I know I'm flirting with catastrophe! :lol: So far their service has been acceptable. The only issue was with the cooling fan relay. I was one of the first to notice this problem and they kept trying to tell me it was working properly when it was constantly running. I didn't get it fixed until just before the TSB was announced. Just last week I took it in for a messed up 3rd gear synchro and they were really great. I was a bit shocked at how accomodating they were. They didn't even ask what had been done to it. I even got to drive an '07 Tribeca with 50 miles on it as my loaner. Very pleasant experience. Their sales staff was OK too as I went in with an IMBA membership. No dealing needed to be done. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. specb122 - As soon as they want to start charging me I'll be all over that fumoto valve and 5 quart jug. Cheers! -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo427 Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Synthetics are far better for the internal parts of your engine, example every NASCAR, F1 and most other race teams use synthetic. A jet engine turns some where around 100,000 rpm they are required to use synthetic, besides the higher lubrication of synthetic it also has no carbon, so there is no sludge, when I was in aviation school we did two test to prove synthetic oil superior qualities, one was take a Mazda rx7 and fill it with oil drive it for 3 month then changed oil put 1 quart of oil for filter and 1 for pan did not even show on dip stick then drove the car from Miami to Fort Lauderdale on I95 at 60mph and back. When we got back to the shop we tore down the engine and checked the main bearings, no observed damage with naked eye. Then we toke regular Quaker State oil pored it into a frying pan, (stove was set on high do not remember exact temperature) within 10 minutes the oil started to crystallize which is the beginning stag of sludge after 30min you could scrape the oil off with spatula. I had a Forester XT before my Legacy GT it had 35000 miles on it all the but the first 3000 where with synthetic and the reason I waited till 3000 is break in the superior lubrication can effect break in of rings, they need to seat. I have a Motor Oil spec PDF. It list just about every oil out there it 176 pages but if you read it you will see that Amsoil, is the best Red Line is next and then Valvoline. If anyone would like the report please send pm, it would be nice if some could put it out there on the web. It’s about 1.5meg file. Any lose in oil it probable from to low viscosity, the hot the temp the high you want 15w-40 summer and 10w30 winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006Specb122 Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Ummm... Because of turbo427 posts... I am thinking of switching to synthetic now...more money on the car.... awesome 1.5 years old.... 30k miles.... redline is looking good although not available everywhere which upsets me... frying pan analogy scares me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006Specb122 Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Yeah, I know I'm flirting with catastrophe! :lol: So far their service has been acceptable. The only issue was with the cooling fan relay. I was one of the first to notice this problem and they kept trying to tell me it was working properly when it was constantly running. I didn't get it fixed until just before the TSB was announced. Just last week I took it in for a messed up 3rd gear synchro and they were really great. I was a bit shocked at how accomodating they were. They didn't even ask what had been done to it. I even got to drive an '07 Tribeca with 50 miles on it as my loaner. Very pleasant experience. Their sales staff was OK too as I went in with an IMBA membership. No dealing needed to be done. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. specb122 - As soon as they want to start charging me I'll be all over that fumoto valve and 5 quart jug. Cheers! -Ian What happened to 3rd gear synchro? When did it happen? Why? what mileage? fixed under warranty? how long did it take? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo427 Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Forgot finish if you put synthetics in a frying pan it never gets hard so it never sludges give it a try with a old frying pan on the grill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Synthetics are far better for the internal parts of your engine, example every NASCAR, F1 and most other race teams use synthetic. A jet engine turns some where around 100,000 rpm they are required to use synthetic, besides the higher lubrication of synthetic it also has no carbon, so there is no sludge, when I was in aviation school we did two test to prove synthetic oil superior qualities, one was take a Mazda rx7 and fill it with oil drive it for 3 month then changed oil put 1 quart of oil for filter and 1 for pan did not even show on dip stick then drove the car from Miami to Fort Lauderdale on I95 at 60mph and back. When we got back to the shop we tore down the engine and checked the main bearings, no observed damage with naked eye. Then we toke regular Quaker State oil pored it into a frying pan, (stove was set on high do not remember exact temperature) within 10 minutes the oil started to crystallize which is the beginning stag of sludge after 30min you could scrape the oil off with spatula. I had a Forester XT before my Legacy GT it had 35000 miles on it all the but the first 3000 where with synthetic and the reason I waited till 3000 is break in the superior lubrication can effect break in of rings, they need to seat. I have a Motor Oil spec PDF. It list just about every oil out there it 176 pages but if you read it you will see that Amsoil, is the best Red Line is next and then Valvoline. If anyone would like the report please send pm, it would be nice if some could put it out there on the web. It’s about 1.5meg file. Any lose in oil it probable from to low viscosity, the hot the temp the high you want 15w-40 summer and 10w30 winter Wow, where to begin. Seems you may have nailed just about every myth about motor oil in one paragraph. You might want to spend some time on the the BITOG forums to get some more accurate information. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ There is no question that overall synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil in it's ability to lubricate under a variety of temps and conditions. The question often comes down to; is is cost effective to use synthetic and will it add significant life to the engine to justify the added cost? Just because F1 and NASCAR use a product does not mean I should use it in my daily driver that NEVER gets driven hard. Whoever told you that synthetic oil has no carbon in it should get their head examined. Read this for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil Synthetic oil will not eliminate sludge, just make it less likely because most synthtic oils will resist sludging better than conventional oils, it has nothing to do with their being no carbon. Heating oil in a pan sure makes for nice commercials, but will tell you little about the quality of an oil. Oil is circulated through an engine going through heating and cooling down continuously, it almost never is exposed to a situation like a frying pan, unless it sits in a very hot turbo after shutdown, but even a synthetic can sludge under those circumstances. Also, oil companies are constantly changing their formulations, the most notorious being when Mobil1 switched from group IV to group III base stocks. So you can't go by one rating system forever. Plus every engine and application is different, what may be the perfect oil for one car may be terrible for another, it all depends. Oil loss is not always about viscocity, it has more to do with the condition of the engine than anything, and you can't just go by the engine oil grade to know viscocity as their is alot of variability in viscocity for each grade. For example German Castrol 0w-30 is similar in viscocity to Mobil1 0w-40 when at operating temperature. Also, if you are looking at main bearings with the naked eye after only a few hundred miles and using that as a gauge to engine wear, you are have been clearly misinformed. BTW, one disadvantage to synthetic oils are that under stressful conditions the friction modifiers can break down and cause the oil to shear down to a lower viscocity over time. This is very common in Mobil1, which regardless is still a quality oil, if somewhat overpriced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Ummm... Because of turbo427 posts... I am thinking of switching to synthetic now...more money on the car.... awesome 1.5 years old.... 30k miles.... redline is looking good although not available everywhere which upsets me... frying pan analogy scares me... If you have a turbo then yes you should switch. But it should not be based on his post which amounts to mostly misinformation, albeit somewhat accurate. Seriously, check out the BITOG forums, they are truely the best source on the net for unbiased truly informed content about oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo427 Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Do not know what you mean about myth I did the test with 20 other guys in class at George T Baker Avation School. I read the Wikipedia the only disadvantages are cost and chemical reaction to some older seals, even Wikipedia talks about the older lifter not liking synthetic this was because of the high lubrication lifter's need to spin on the cam shaft of say a V8 chevy if it does spin then any wear would be from hitting the same spot. As for the sludge sorry if it made it sound like it was impossible for an engine to sludge, no just a lot harder if you would like to read the spec sheet on the oil just let me know where to send it is about 3 years old but it shows Four Ball Wear test, Noack, Flash Point and all spec on the oil that have to be provided to the goverment to ment SP stardards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006Specb122 Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 This is what I've been using since day 2 CASTROL GTX HAS PATENTED ANTI-SLUDGE TECHNOLOGY THAT PROVIDES SUPERIOR PROTECTION AGAINST SLUDGE BUILD-UP*. Key Benefits <LI type=disc>Castrol GTX exceeds demanding U.S. high shear and stay-in-grade requirements for viscosity breakdown protection. <LI type=disc>Far exceeds the demanding U.S. requirements for viscosity breakdown in every grade! <LI type=disc>Engineered to provide maximum protection against viscosity and thermal breakdown! <LI type=disc>Anti-oxidants, detergents and dispersants provide unsurpassed protection against thermal breakdown. <LI type=disc>Exceeds passenger car and gasoline light truck requirements for the protection of gasoline and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ or SH is recommended. Formulated to exceed engine protection requirements of Ford ESE-M2C153-G and F, GM 6085M, Chrysler Corporation MS-6395H. What do you guys think? What about their syn-blend? http://www.castrol.com/castrol/multipleproductsection.do?categoryId=9003273&contentId=7006594 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Castrol GTX is an excellent dino oil and you may never have problems with it. However, if you have a turbo I would stick with a synthetic. Don't believe the marketing hype from any company. Only a UOA will tell you if an oil is protecting your engine. The BITOG forums are an excellent source of info like UOAs from similar cars etc... What we think is irrelivant, you may have sludge you may not, we can't see inside your engine. All I know is from my experience with turbos (VW Passat 1.8T), I would never use anything but a quality synthetic in a turbo charged car. I know it may sound harsh but 75% of the posts in this thread are complete bullshit because they are based on hearsay, butt-dynos, spurious "experiments" and "research", marketing hype, etc... I have been through all of this before and trust me, you can't go by any of this crap. Read what the EXPERTS have to say on BITOG and other forums and do an UOA if you go over 3k miles on ANY oil in a turbo charged engine. turbo427: It doesn't matter how many people witnessed your "test", I am questioning whether this test tells you anything about the quality of the oil other than synthetic oil doesn't sludge in a frying pan. I seem to remember an oil company featuring ads that showed the same "experiment." That fact alone leads me to take these tests with a huge grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natheya Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Synthetic oil is fine if you are checking it everytime you fill up your gas tank. Other than that your not doing yourself any favors if you dont check your levels several times between oil changes. It is true and I am sure many have said the oil is extremely thin. I went through synthetic like water in my last car. I dont see any purpose in putting it into my LGT. Its likely to cause more harm than good for normal semi spirited driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Synthetic oil is fine if you are checking it everytime you fill up your gas tank. Other than that your not doing yourself any favors if you dont check your levels several times between oil changes. It is true and I am sure many have said the oil is extremely thin. I went through synthetic like water in my last car. I dont see any purpose in putting it into my LGT. Its likely to cause more harm than good for normal semi spirited driving. You are right about checking oil, everyone should do this regularly with any car. I'm interested in how you have determined synthetic will cause more harm than good? Remember your last car is not the same as this car and you may not have any consumption issues. You can always use a thicker synthetic oil to help alleviate any consumption issues. I don't think many of you realize just how hard a turbo is on oil even when not driven hard. Ask the hundreds of VW 1.8T owners that had their engines ruined with sludge from not using synthetic oil. You may never have problems using dino oil with your car or may not even keep it long enough to care. But I would get a UOA before I made any assumptions, which is about all I have heard on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 I've been using dino for 55K miles and haven't seen any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Power Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 I run amsoil 0w-30 and have no consumption issues. So, I believe that was your car, not all and that blanket statement is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 I've been using dino for 55K miles and haven't seen any issues. This is also a classic. How do you know for SURE that you aren't having issues? The answer, you don't. Hundreds of VW and Toyota owners had the same experience, until their oil pressure light went on and by then it was too late. Actually if you stick to the Subaru recomendation of 3750 mile changes in the turbos, you should be fine with any SM rated oil, dino or otherwise. If it were me, I would switch to synthetic, get a UOA and push my OCI to 5k or more if it looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one69chev Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Except on the Subaru's the oil light doesn't come on to warn the driver the pressure is below a safe measure. If you don't frequently check your oil level you will just drive the car into the ground until it sounds like a rattle can and dies leaving you stranded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo427 Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 ShinerMonkey Don't understand your stand I read some of the forums on BITOG I saw nothing that says synthetic doesn't sludge less, doesn't reduce heat, doesn't have a higher flash point or anything that says dino oil is better, the closest thing I saw was that if you change your oil on regular basis you'll be ok. You, have even stated here to use it if you have a turbo which sounds like you think its better. My opinion and most experts including some people on BITOG is that synthetic is better over all. I do have 20+ years as a mechanic have maintained 600+ vehicles for a major Airline this by no means makes me an expert but I did see lots F150 with sludge build up in the pan and head area even with oil changes every 3 months. I feel it’s considerably better and worth the extra cost even if just for insurance. To each his own, everyone has there own opinion, hope there’s no ill feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneskiian Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 What happened to 3rd gear synchro? When did it happen? Why? what mileage? fixed under warranty? how long did it take? thanks Sorry for the OT but... The 3rd gear synchro got munched because I let someone who didn't know how to properly drive a stick get lost in my car for nearly 8 hours. This was about a month ago and my car had about 40K miles on it at the time. Yes, it was fixed under the 5 year, 60K mile powertrain warranty. They didn't ask how it happened so I didn't offer the information. It took about a week to get fixed as they didn't have all the parts in stock they needed. OK, now back to your regular oil programming... I'll check BITOG forums as well but what is the opinion here about switching to synthetic at nearly 45K miles? Thanks! -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo427 Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 The earlier you change the better, but I had a Tahoe I switch at 48K had no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo427 Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Except on the Subaru's the oil light doesn't come on to warn the driver the pressure is below a safe measure. If you don't frequently check your oil level you will just drive the car into the ground until it sounds like a rattle can and dies leaving you stranded. When oil light comes on it's to late most oil pressure switches are set at 5 to 10lb. At 5lbs the oil will not support the crack shaft and will start to weld its self to the bearings or spin the bearing blocking the oil hole causing more problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_T Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 ...shortened... BTW, one disadvantage to synthetic oils are that under stressful conditions the friction modifiers can break down and cause the oil to shear down to a lower viscocity over time. This is very common in Mobil1, which regardless is still a quality oil, if somewhat overpriced. This happens with all oils. Synths are generally more resistant to shearing. Over on BITOG, its been reported that some of the popular 5w-30's shear to ~20w in less than 2,000 miles in N/A engines....turbo's must murder those oils. The lower the spread between the low and high #'s on the oil, generally the more shear-stable the oil is. When there is a large spread, the polymers used to create that spread break down, = shearing. When I had my LGT I never used a 5w-anything, and always used 10w-30 synthetics. They flow so much better in the cold and won't coke and choke in the heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 ShinerMonkey Don't understand your stand I read some of the forums on BITOG I saw nothing that says synthetic doesn't sludge less, doesn't reduce heat, doesn't have a higher flash point or anything that says dino oil is better, the closest thing I saw was that if you change your oil on regular basis you'll be ok. You, have even stated here to use it if you have a turbo which sounds like you think its better. My opinion and most experts including some people on BITOG is that synthetic is better over all. I do have 20+ years as a mechanic have maintained 600+ vehicles for a major Airline this by no means makes me an expert but I did see lots F150 with sludge build up in the pan and head area even with oil changes every 3 months. I feel it’s considerably better and worth the extra cost even if just for insurance. To each his own, everyone has there own opinion, hope there’s no ill feeling. I wasn't arguing with you, I agree that synthetic is better. I was just disagreeing with the "facts" you were using to justify your opinion. Such as heating oil in a pan, synth oil not having carbon, synth oil not ever sludging, etc... No ill feelings, never was. I just get a little testy about these oil discussions sometimes because I have been down this road before and have heard all of the these myths and lots of people talking out of their ass and get a little tired of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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