eckseleven Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Eckseleven how far are you from CT? You should come visit me and I'll get it straightened out for you and do a street tune. Need to play with more 5th gens! I appreciate the offer but that's a bit of a hike for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Here is a video of me applying pressure to the wastegate actuator. I have an inspection camera tucked up above to see the rod movement. There is a shadow on the dial making the numbers a bit hard to read so know that the first marking is 5 psi. As you can see, around 10 psi the rod begins to move. It continues to move up to maybe 17 psi. Assuming there is some degree of inaccuracy with the pump/gauge, I think this is to be expected. So as far as I can tell, everything is functioning correctly. No mechanical issues. This doesn't come as a surprise to me due to my readjusting of the DP earlier and the fact that the car operated completely normally with the stock DP in all weather conditions. So it seems like there can only be two thing going on now and the cold temperature just exacerbates the problem. 1. The exhaust flows too well. 2. Internal wastegate doesn't flow well enough. So where do I go from here? I'm not porting the IWG and I'm not adding an EWG. Both are just not worth the time/money to me since I don't plan on keeping the car more than a few more years. - I could wait until spring and get the car tuned as is. I imagine it will tune fine in the warmer temps. Come winter I would just need to be careful when it gets below ~40F. Get a boost gauge to monitor what it's doing. Use my right foot as boost control so to speak. This I feel would be a huge pain though. When the car overboosted the one time on the highway, it overboosted within 1000 RPM of me flooring it. That is stupid quick. - Put the stock CBE (or part of it, maybe just mid pipe) back on. This may slow flow down enough that it won't overboost anymore. - Go back to stock DP and be done with this. No stage 2 for me. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I would have another tuner look at your boost control. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I would have another tuner look at your boost control. That, and going back to the stock CBE. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 I would have another tuner look at your boost control.That, and going back to the stock CBE. Please explain how a different tuner is going to solve this. Have I not proven boost control is working correctly? It can't be the tune; it is set to 0 WDGC across the board yet the car still overboosts. And the biggest nail in the coffin is that the car operated perfectly in all temps prior to installing the Nameless DP. I don't see how it could be anything except the two things I pointed out above. I know this sounds argumentative. I mean no offense. I'm just frustrated and disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Just look at Swannee and Fischbach, both have full Nameless TBE and no boost control issues. In fact, Logan started that whole thread about Swannee's tune when he did it and was praising the Nameless DP for great boost control. That was a compketely stock turbo. Have you verified independently in the tune data that you are truly at 0 wgdc and on purely mechanical boost? Edited December 6, 2015 by GTEASER GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCrash Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Are there any comparisons on the airflow restrictions on the avo vs the nameless? My first guess is the nameless would allow more air to pass allowing for creep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Just look at Swannee and Fischbach, both have full Nameless TBE and no boost control issues. In fact, Logan started that whole thread about Swannee's tune when he did it and was praising the Nameless DP for great boost control. That was a compketely stock turbo. Have you verified independently in the tune data that you are truly at 0 wgdc and on purely mechanical boost? I'm curious what the temperature was for them. I believe if I were to get tuned in the spring/summer there would probably be no obvious problem. But when it gets cold no after market DP is going to cure this problem. I thought that this DP being a divorced style would help but that appears to not be the case. Dense air + free flowing exhaust + tiny IWG = Logs do show 0 wgdc. I can post one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojorios Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 That's when my creep showed. Nothing on the dyno. A couple of days later, the temp dropped, creep began. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apexofthevortex Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I'm curious what the temperature was for them. I believe if I were to get tuned in the spring/summer there would probably be no obvious problem. But when it gets cold no after market DP is going to cure this problem. I thought that this DP being a divorced style would help but that appears to not be the case. Dense air + free flowing exhaust + tiny IWG = Logs do show 0 wgdc. I can post one. I haven't over boosted since I got a 3-port put in, they're not crazy expensive so I think it may be worth a try for you. Also you have the just the front nameless dump pipe mated to an avo dp right? Just throwing the idea out there but maybe those two don't play nice together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Need a retune for a EBCS. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Please explain how a different tuner is going to solve this. Have I not proven boost control is working correctly? It can't be the tune; it is set to 0 WDGC across the board yet the car still overboosts. If you're overboosting with WGDC locked at zero you have mechanical issues. Try connecting the actuator directly to the compressor outlet and bypass the BCS altogether. You should hit a max of about 11psi on the stock actuator if all is well. Sent from a device using some software. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haruichi808 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I know on my 05 LGT my tuner suggested to get an ebcs also because I was creeping, he said it would allow him to bring boost on sooner n control it more on the top end, a friend of mine has a 2011 lgt w/catless tbe with ebcs for a bout five months now n said no creep issues but but weather in Hawaii is always warm. Unless u already have an ebcs , good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Also you have the just the front nameless dump pipe mated to an avo dp right? Just throwing the idea out there but maybe those two don't play nice together. Correct. But a 3 inch exhaust is a 3 inch exhaust. Shouldn't be different flow wise to the other options. It has one resonator and straight through mufflers. What was the temperature when you were overboosting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apexofthevortex Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Correct. But a 3 inch exhaust is a 3 inch exhaust. Shouldn't be different flow wise to the other options. It has one resonator and straight through mufflers. What was the temperature when you were overboosting? Yeah I would think it shouldn't be a problem, I'm just trying to think of any variables with your setup. The temps were fairly mild when I was overboosting I'd say about 55-70F, it wasn't that cold when I got tuned. It's starting to get pretty cold now, target is 18 or 19 and it does creep to about 20psi but stays pretty steady there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GotthatGT Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Have you tried the Cobb OTS Stage 2 low waste gate map? It's free and it should only take a few minutes to see if it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 If you're overboosting with WGDC locked at zero you have mechanical issues. Try connecting the actuator directly to the compressor outlet and bypass the BCS altogether. You should hit a max of about 11psi on the stock actuator if all is well. I've hooked a pump to the actuator and verified it works. See a couple posts up with the video. Doesn't that rule out a mechanical problem? Not only that, but I had no problems until the DP was installed. I think it would take a small miracle to develop a mechanical problem in the 500 miles I've had the DP on. Unless the few times it has hit 21psi broke something. It is worth mentioning that I had a smoke test a couple weeks ago and it passed. It's worth a shot to bypass the BCS but I'm not very optimistic. I assume I put the restrictor pill in there in approximately the same spot as it is now? Any idea what size vacuum line I need? I can grab a couple sizes that look about right from the hardware store if not. I appreciate the help, everyone. I really hope to find a solution. This thing just sounds so good and drives great even with my temp tune, I'd hate to revert anything back to stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojorios Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Have you tried the Cobb OTS Stage 2 low waste gate map? It's free and it should only take a few minutes to see if it helps. I believe Cobb never made a Stage 2 OTS map for the 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apexofthevortex Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I believe Cobb never made a Stage 2 OTS map for the 2012. They didn't but they made one for the 2010 and maybe the 2011 as well, I don't see any reason why you couldn't use that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I've hooked a pump to the actuator and verified it works. See a couple posts up with the video. Doesn't that rule out a mechanical problem? Not only that, but I had no problems until the DP was installed. I think it would take a small miracle to develop a mechanical problem in the 500 miles I've had the DP on. Unless the few times it has hit 21psi broke something. It is worth mentioning that I had a smoke test a couple weeks ago and it passed. It's worth a shot to bypass the BCS but I'm not very optimistic. I assume I put the restrictor pill in there in approximately the same spot as it is now? Any idea what size vacuum line I need? I can grab a couple sizes that look about right from the hardware store if not. I appreciate the help, everyone. I really hope to find a solution. This thing just sounds so good and drives great even with my temp tune, I'd hate to revert anything back to stock. Show your appreciation by doing what I suggest and not second-guessing me. A pump test is not the same as actually testing in boost with the BCS connected. You have backpressure in the exhaust to overcome and we aren't sure if your BCS lines are good etc. Take the factory T-hose off, with the pill still in there, and connect a new short length of vacuum hose directly from compressor to actuator. If you see more than about 11psi then you have a problem with either the wastegate flapper still hitting something, the actuator not holding pressure, the BCS being faulty, a line leaking... lots of possibilities. If you do hold a steady 11psi or so we have eliminated the WG flapper, the actuator, the downpipe design, the exhaust system etc. Just get back under the car and do it. It takes less time to actually do this than thinking up arguments and excuses not to. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 I read some Cobb documentation about testing the wastegate and in it they use a pump just as I did. That's what I used to come to the conclusion that I did. Your experience tells you this isn't a sufficient test. That's fine. I'm not second guessing or doubting you so don't take offense. I'm just trying to learn. I'll try what you suggest. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I read some Cobb documentation about testing the wastegate and in it they use a pump just as I did. That's what I used to come to the conclusion that I did. Your experience tells you this isn't a sufficient test. That's fine. I'm not second guessing or doubting you so don't take offense. I'm just trying to learn. I'll try what you suggest. Thanks. Good luck. I hope you make some progress towards a solution! Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GotthatGT Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 So now I stripped the top PITA nut on the DP. Draining antifreeze to pull the thermostat housing off now. Should I just go ahead and replace the thermostat? What temp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojorios Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Well, got mine back from Swaintech (around $90 if anyone is wondering). The White Lightening coating looks great. Not sure if I'm going to paint it and if so what color (black or white). Really depends on if I decide to keep the DP. And of course, in normal fashion, it also looks like something happened to it sometime between leaving Nameless to Swain to me. Small little dent by the tube coming from the turbo to the exhaust. I'm hoping that this is something that won't affect performance or the install. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If you decide to keep the dp?... Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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