Fossil2k2 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I knew you'd show up soon, still stalking Rao? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'm just enjoying the entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'm just enjoying the entertainment. What's your current brake setup GT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Hawk HPS pads feel okay. I burned thru the OEM pads pretty damn quickly thanks to some auto events at the track. I tried Bobcats and they were okay, like the HPS pads a bit better from both a cold/rain stopping perspective and quality perspective. Don't like them enough to go with them again, will probably try something else next time. -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyMUN2k6 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 People have been sniffing the hawk dust too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBad Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I've had hawk pads on the rear only on stock rotors for a while now. I would say they perform about the same as OEM maybe slightly better. They do create alot more dust... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 If you're unable to engage ABS with your brakes, I'd say there's something else wrong and wouldn't be so quick to blame your brake pads. Even the shittiest of brake pads that meet OEM standards at minimum should be able to trigger ABS under the conditions you're describing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimblaz Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 so with all this anti Hawk going on what pads are people switching to?? Im about to get new pads and rotors. Its a DD but im rather aggressive at times on open back roads. help me out?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 If you're unable to engage ABS with your brakes, I'd say there's something else wrong and wouldn't be so quick to blame your brake pads. Even the shittiest of brake pads that meet OEM standards at minimum should be able to trigger ABS under the conditions you're describing. I doubt it: I followed the bed-in procedure. Pads still sucked. Couldn't even get the ABS to kick in no matter how hard I braked. Had the fluid flushed since it was old anyways. It helped by a noticeable amount as far as pedal feel, but the pads still feel like they're blocks of wood.So, the pads sucked from the get-go. I gave them a chance to settle, seeing no significant progress, I had the brake fluid flushed. Having said, that, it's time to start making some calls. First order of business, I'm going to have the shop re-check the fluid. And then it's on to Hawk. Trust me when I say I'm trying to not be "quick" to anything. But all evidence so far undoubtedly point to the pads, plain and simple. The thread I opened on the Mini boards have already collected a significant amount of "mine too" stories. Where the hell were these people when I was deciding what pads to go with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Well let me ask you this: what's your suspension set up? And what tires are you running? Do you have any heavy weight in your car? Do you weigh 500 lbs? Are the roads you're driving on perfectly smooth asphalt? I suppose it's possible that your brakes are unable to overcome the limits of adhesion due to your particular setup.... but I doubt that. My car's suspension is stock, and I'm running on Yokohama Avid W4S ultra high performance all seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I agree Hawk is overrated, but there aren't a lot of options if you stick with the stock calipers. -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 iNVAR, bone stock everything, Bridgestone AS 400 tires with barely 6K miles on them. Same story on the Legacy, bone stock everything, Eagle F1 A/S with 10K miles on them. And this morning on the way to work I tested them cold. They suck, plain and simple. I never paid close enough attention until now. I don't have anything heavy in the car and I weigh right around 165lb. I have green eyes and enjoy long walks on the beach. Wife needs the car today but tomorrow I'm going to have it checked out by the shop and then I'm calling Hawk since waiting for an e-mail reply seems to be fruitless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil2k2 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 ^ Has anyone who's driven your car/cars commented on the quality of the brakes? Like the folks doing the work on them? Do they test them and say they suck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Wife's first comment was "what is this shit". No complaints yet on the Subaru besides my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 My OEM pads blew chunks almost literally. Maybe that just made me blow chunks. After repeatedly leaving material on the rotors requiring turning, uneven performance at different temperatures under NORMAL driving conditions with an OEM car led me to Hawk HPS. At 200whp on OEM all weather tires HPS felt like a major upgrade (8 out of 10) At 260whp on OEM size 300+ treadwear summer tires I had no real complains (7 out of 10) At 300whp on roasted tires, the tires were the major issue. ?/10 At 360whp with full suspension on super sticky KDW2 245/35/18 with 'spensive fluid, SS lines and DBA4000 rotors they do not do the job anymore. (I managed to overheat my HPS going UP a mountain). (5 out of 10, they function okay but are a weak point in my car) Starting to wonder if I should have listened to LegacyMUN from the start and gone with ProjectMu. (In my case a BBK is probably called for) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 iNVAR, bone stock everything, Bridgestone AS 400 tires with barely 6K miles on them. Same story on the Legacy, bone stock everything, Eagle F1 A/S with 10K miles on them. And this morning on the way to work I tested them cold. They suck, plain and simple. I never paid close enough attention until now. I don't have anything heavy in the car and I weigh right around 165lb. I have green eyes and enjoy long walks on the beach. Wife needs the car today but tomorrow I'm going to have it checked out by the shop and then I'm calling Hawk since waiting for an e-mail reply seems to be fruitless.Never had a problem with them cold. The car stops when I want it to, how I want it to, and I find modulating the brakes very easy. I'm also one of those people that don't like hyper-sensitive brakes that throw you through the windshield when you so much as touch them. Again, if you're doing 60 and you stand on the brake pedal and are unable to engage ABS, I'd have to say that it's unlikely it's your pads. Even the OEM pads can engage the ABS like that, and I'm 100% sure the Hawk HPS pads are significantly better than OEM. Your pads aren't overheating causing fade? Stuck pistons perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busabusa Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I'm at 75k miles and about to change out the stock rotors. Going to try my 2nd set of set of Hawk pads when I put the new centric rotors on and don't expect any issues. Adventures in Turbomachinery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 Again, if you're doing 60 and you stand on the brake pedal and are unable to engage ABS, I'd have to say that it's unlikely it's your pads. Even the OEM pads can engage the ABS like that, and I'm 100% sure the Hawk HPS pads are significantly better than OEM. Disclaimer, this is not the Legacy I am talking about. It's the Mini. The Legacy works fine, I can engage the ABS but the pads feel mediocre at best. The Mini? The pads absolutely suck when cold, when they warm up they get better, I can stand on the pedal and I can get it on the threshold of ABS engaging nowadays. I'll continue to drive it, maybe they're still getting better which after 3 serious bed-in procedures sounds ridiculous to me. We can look for excuses all day. It's the pads. They just plain suck. Hawk is overrated. Everything worked great until I had them installed. But as I said, just to humor myself I still plan on having the system checked. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher0117 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Again, if you're doing 60 and you stand on the brake pedal and are unable to engage ABS, I'd have to say that it's unlikely it's your pads. Even the OEM pads can engage the ABS like that, and I'm 100% sure the Hawk HPS pads are significantly better than OEM. I always though the tires mattered more than the pads themselves. At least I've had the same set of pads that have seen OEM tires, struts and shocks, that now see Michelin pilot sports, eibach springs with koni's. Now the ABS rarely, if ever activates, and it did at the drop of a hat with my oem setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 If the tires are grippy it is more likely to get the ABS to chatter, right? The tires are practically brand new on the Mini and they are great. Ditching the runflats was the best decision I have ever made. Those things felt like riding on bags of sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher0117 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 If the tires are grippy it is more likely to get the ABS to chatter, right? The tires are practically brand new on the Mini and they are great. Ditching the runflats was the best decision I have ever made. Those things felt like riding on bags of sand. Think the opposite way. If you have a grippier tire the tire will have higher static friction and allow the pads to actually do what they are supposed to - stop the car. If you have tires that aren't grippy, it will be easier to overcome the static friction between the tires and road. This will be a state of sliding friction, which is less than static friction, and will cause your ABS to kick on because your tires are sliding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 I seriously doubt the AS400s are better than the F1s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher0117 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I definitely agree with you on the F1s being better than the AS400s. From what you have said I would agree that, in your situation, the problem points to the Hawks. My first post was actually disagreeing with what iNVAR said, but I wasn't pointing judgement onto the HAWKs as I don't have any experience with them. Sometimes pads and rotors just don't work well with each other and there isn't anything you can do about it except find a combo that does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 I am sure that's the issue, a simple thing as the rotors not playing well with them Hawks. They shouldn't sell them then. Everyone is being quiet about it now. Hawk won't respond, neither the vendor I bought them from. Curious to see if they stand behind their product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Fish, No commentary on the hawks here, but something is wrong. Hawks are good pads in terms of their ability to brake once heated up - they might dust, they might wear quickly, etc. but they CAN offer decent braking power with a bit of heat in them. All brake pads, whether it be hawks or el-cheapo chinese brand, can engage ABS. The braking system should ALWAYS be able to engage the ABS system when on a flat and decent surface, short of running crappy pads and r-comps. Makes me wonder if something else is going on here. FYI, I'm running the cheapest of the cheap pads - eBay $25 pads shipped to my house for the front. And on good michelin pilot exalto a/s tires (225/45/17) I can readily engage ABS with room to spare in terms of force put on the brake pedal. They'll leave shit-tons of deposits - but they are quiet, relatively low dust, and can engage ABS...and they actually feel pretty good in terms of pedal effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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