Moderators BarManBean Posted August 6, 2013 Moderators Share Posted August 6, 2013 If the ATs are the same size as the 6mts, why would the drive shafts be a different length? (they wouldn't...?) "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 If the ATs are the same size as the 6mts, why would the drive shafts be a different length? (they wouldn't...?) Agreed. That's the point... unless the diff seal is further forward on the R180 diff, which I have no reason to believe is the case. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 You guys are forgetting the differences between the 05 LGT & 05 STi wheel base, IIRC 5". Mike Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I'm just looking for factual evidence. I've got a guy that has sourced several of these swaps telling me I can use an STi main shaft with a different flange, and it'll work. I've questioned him again, and he said it will work, and that he is going to give me what I need. I've got info from NASIOC (for what that's worth) to back that up. 2011 STi drive shaft = x" 05-09 LGT 4EAT drive shaft = y" What is x? What is y? Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Find the wheel base for the 2011 STi. If it's the some as 05-09 LGT the drive shaft will work. 05-09 LGT 4EAT drive shaft = y" = 62.5 total length. My custom drive shaft is 63" total length Quotes that my help you figure thing out. Look at this pic. again, http://www.thrashdriveshaft.com/Imag...ion%202009.JPG Measurement from the rear diff. flange to the center of the carrier bearing bolt ( 36.12" ). Then measure center of the carrier bearing bolt to the end of the tail shaft housing is (24.12") of the 6MT. You want 2" to 3" of the slide yoke inside the tail shaft. 36.12+24.12=60" ,The 60"is from the outside of the rear diff. flange to the outside of the tail shaft housing. The rest of the length of the drive shaft is going into the tail shaft. If your total length is around 63". That means you have 3" of penetration in the tail shaft housing. With out penetration your car goes nowhere & the drive shaft falls to the ground. Mike So mine should be OK then as its like 62.5 Yea I looked at that again before you posted this morning and realized yours was only 60 plus what goes into the transmission. I think the one I got will be fine, unless there is something funky with the Outback XT length. Thanks Guys Mike Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Trying to get apples to apples... and all I have is fruit salad... From NASIOC: The auto (WRX) driveshaft is 45.78" not counting the slip yoke or pinion flange, Sti is 45.59" not counting the slip yoke or pinion flange Another thread... Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCwagon Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 If the ATs are the same size as the 6mts, why would the drive shafts be a different length? (they wouldn't...?) Legacy and Impreza are different as far as length and where the carrier bearing mounts to the sub-frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCwagon Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Trying to get apples to apples... and all I have is fruit salad... From NASIOC: The auto (WRX) driveshaft is 45.78" not counting the slip yoke or pinion flange, Sti is 45.59" not counting the slip yoke or pinion flange Another thread... You are quoting a thread that compares a WRX to an STI. That is the Impreza platform. If you have a Legacy, the driveshafts are different lengths than the Impreza. Again, the carrier bearing support is also in a different spot on the Legacy vs. Impreza. I am not sure why you would not just source a Legacy automatic transmission driveshaft and be done with it. They are $90 on Ebay all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Understood. I get that. It just differs drastically from what I'm getting from my source. I checked eBay yesterday, but didn't find much. Admittedly. I've been too busy lately to nail this down but it's getting to be time. And I don't want to go back to my source for the third time to question him... I do, however, want the right parts the first time. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCwagon Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 http://www.ebay.com/itm/05-06-07-08-09-LEGACY-REAR-DRIVE-SHAFT-230905-/300929028186?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4610c4905a&vxp=mtr#ht_2518wt_998 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 has anyone converted to a one piece driveshaft ? the one on my 79 camaro is 54 inches center to center of the joints. and it weighs substantially less. any semi repar place can mae you a custom driveshaft or even modify yours. i had mine made for 150$ Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxiboy Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 ^ that is a wagon, he needs sedan 2.5i 4EAT http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2009-LEGACY-REAR-DRIVE-SHAFT-/190803567014?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ALegacy&hash=item2c6cc761a6&vxp=mtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Not convinced a one-piece would work. Too much angle and would get in the way of the exhaust. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCwagon Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) ^ that is a wagon, he needs sedan 2.5i 4EAT http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2009-LEGACY-REAR-DRIVE-SHAFT-/190803567014?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ALegacy&hash=item2c6cc761a6&vxp=mtr The wagon drivetrain and the sedan drivetrain are the same length. I say this because I have had a Spec B driveshaft and an automatic driveshaft setting side by side and they are the same length. The carrier bearing is in the right spot too.......... ALSO - I have a wagon with a 6 speed and spec B driveshaft so............THE WHEELBASE IS THE SAME LENGTH. Edited August 7, 2013 by KCwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Thanks guys... going back to the supplier... all I want is all the stuff I need to do this right the first time without extended downtime waiting on parts. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxiboy Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 The wagon drivetrain and the sedan drivetrain are the same length. I say this because I have had a Spec B driveshaft and an automatic driveshaft setting side by side and they are the same length. The carrier bearing is in the right spot too.......... ALSO - I have a wagon with a 6 speed and spec B driveshaft so............THE WHEELBASE IS THE SAME LENGTH. Hmmm didn't know that. I have always thought sedan to sedan, wagon to wagon. Anyway, my ebay search is cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 They're all the same length from the rear engine flange to the R160 differential face, just transmission dependent for length of the driveshaft. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Hmmm didn't know that. I have always thought sedan to sedan, wagon to wagon. Anyway, my ebay search is cheaper And it includes Outback XT I used a 2006 2.5i SEDAN 4eat auto shaft in my outback with a 08 up 6 speed AND R180. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 If going the route of 06+ STi transmission and using an R180 diff, can an R180 diff from the same '06 STi be used or does it have to be an 07-09 spec.b diff? From OP..... There are two main recipes for 6MT swaps. They key difference between them is the rear diff ratio. Both use 3.9:1 front differentials, but the later transmissions have a 1.1:1 ratio on the rear output shaft, which requires a 3.54:1 rear diff. Recipe A - 3.90 rear diff Transmission options: 04/05 STI*, or 08/09 Spec B Rear diff options: 04/05 STI, possibly 07-09 Legacy GT R160** Rear axles: 07-09 Spec B (axles 28421AG03B, axle seals 806732200) Front axles: Regular LGT*** Driveshaft: use a Spec B driveshaft, and replace the differential's input flange with the R160 flange. (The Spec B R180 has an R160 input yoke, but is only available in 3.54:1.) Recipe B - 3.54:1 rear diff Transmission options: 06+ STI (I don't know what the upper bound is, but unclemat used an 08) Rear diff options: 02-05 WRX R160, 07-09 Spec B R180***** Rear axles: Regular LGT with R160, Spec B axles with R180. Front axles: Regular LGT Driveshaft: Spec B**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) I'm just looking for factual evidence. I've got a guy that has sourced several of these swaps telling me I can use an STi main shaft with a different flange, and it'll work. I've questioned him again, and he said it will work, and that he is going to give me what I need. I've got info from NASIOC (for what that's worth) to back that up. 2011 STi drive shaft = x" 05-09 LGT 4EAT drive shaft = y" What is x? What is y? I typically create threads like this after the stuff gets installed, but I'm making an exception in this case because I need a place to take notes while I sort through the information that is sprinkled throughout the "6mt master swap thread" (and others) so that the next person to undertake this swap won't have to go on an easter-egg hunt to learn what they need to know. There are two main recipes for 6MT swaps. They key difference between them is the rear diff ratio. Both use 3.9:1 front differentials, but the later transmissions have a 1.1:1 ratio on the rear output shaft, which requires a 3.54:1 rear diff. Recipe A - 3.90 rear diff Transmission options: 04/05 STI*, or 08/09 Spec B Rear diff options: 04/05 STI, possibly 07-09 Legacy GT R160** Rear axles: 07-09 Spec B (axles 28421AG03B, axle seals 806732200) Front axles: Regular LGT*** Driveshaft: use a Spec B driveshaft, and replace the differential's input flange with the R160 flange. (The Spec B R180 has an R160 input yoke, but is only available in 3.54:1.) Recipe B - 3.54:1 rear diff Transmission options: 06+ STI (I don't know what the upper bound is, but unclemat used an 08) Rear diff options: 02-05 WRX R160, 07-09 Spec B R180***** Rear axles: Regular LGT with R160, Spec B axles with R180. Front axles: Regular LGT Driveshaft: Spec B**** Note that there are two versions of the Spec B 6MT transmission and they have different final drive ratios. * Some 04 STI transmissions need minor changes for LGT front axles - click here for more info. ** I have conflicting information about which Legacy GT R160s have which ratios. *** 04 6MT will need new axle seals to use LGT front axles. (Part numbers here) **** Per Z0rro, an 05-09 4EAT driveshaft can substitute for a Spec B driveshaft. ***** Cars101.com says the 08/09 Spec B uses a 3.9 final drive, however that apparently includes the 1.1 reduction in the transmission. Small parts: (needed for either recipe) Please confirm these part numbers for your particular transmission. Most of these are just what I used for my 05 STI 6MT swap; later years may have differences. Keep your 5MT neutral sensor switch, put it in the 6MT. 6MT shift linkage (Preferably Spec B; the Impreza shift linkage is shorter) (Is this still true for 08+ Impreza?) 6MT clutch fork - 30530AA050 6MT clutch release shaft - 30532AA020 6MT clutch slave cylinder - 30620AA172 - alternate:30620AA173 6MT clutch hose 6MT throw-out bearing 6MT rear transmission mount (same part for Spec B and Impreza) Reverse lockout cable - 35060AG010 Downpipe support bracket - 44021FE030 R180 diff mount from the spec B - 41310AT040 (not strictly necessary, but click here for some info) Clutch fork shaft plug (threaded cap that holds the fork shaft in) - 30550AA000 for 04-07, and 11021AA010 for 08+ Output Shaft Oil Seal (oil seal for the driveshaft interface) - 806735210 - $11.50 Clutch fork spring (spring that connects clutch fork to bell housing) - 30546AA060 - $5.20 Inner shift boot (foam/rubber, mostly for noise insulation, you can reuse the 5MT if you trim it) If you get a DCCD diff, you'll need an aftermarket DCCD controller. Courtesy of ShockerGT: If you have an STI shift linkage, the shift lever will not be centered as the STI shifter rod and shifter stay are shorter than the Legacy parts. So, you'll need these: Spec B Shifter Rod: 35041AG020 Spec B Shifter Stay: 35031AG020 Stick with 04-07 STI shift levers, as the 08+ versions are not compatible. What you DON'T need: Vehicle speed sensor - the LGT speed sensor is not on/in the transmission. 6MT rear transmission crossmember (same part for 5MT, just needs the 6MT mount (the rubber part)) Considerations: (which recipe is right for you?) The Spec B 6MT has a 50/50 torque split, lacks DCCD and has an open front diff, but is less expensive 04/05 STI 6MT has a 35/65 torque split, open center diff, and DCCD 06+ STI 6MT has a 41/59 torque split, helical center diff, and DCCD R180 rear diffs are stronger than R160 rear diffs. The Spec B R180 uses an R160 input yoke. Not sure how much this affects strength. Unclemat opines on differential technology. And so does Homemade WRX. Last but not least, the Spec B 6MT gear ratios are more evenly spaced than the USDM STI 6MT ratios, and they're a bit taller. Rallispec will install them into STI transmissions, and they call it a "high speed" gearing option. I did it mostly for the even spacing. Better mileage would be a nice side-effect if I stayed out of boost, but how likely is that? Reference material: Hammer Down's thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/sti-6-speed-swap-05-gt-61199.html?t=61199 sti_lusts's thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/6-speed-transmission-conversion-my-05-54771.html?t=54771 LegacyGT.com 6MT swap thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/6mt-master-swap-thread-107137.html BDII's NES 6MT swap thread: http://www.newenglandsubarus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13187 NASIOC.com 6MT swap thread: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1201152 An Impreza 6MT swap: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=872902 A thread with some DccdPro info: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2032099 Info about differential types: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423584 Spec B shifter assembly: http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b13/type_12/manipulation/manual_gear_shift_system/ Part sources: Millenium Auto - http://www.y2kimports.com/ (Used Subaru parts, including 6MT transmissions) Silverline Automotive - http://www.silverlineautomotive.com/ (6MT swap packages) Thrash - http://www.thrashdriveshaft.com/ (custom driveshaft, $650ish) Spiider - http://www.dccdpro.com/ (Aftermarket DCCD controller) SGP - http://www.subarugenuineparts.com/ (Axles, seals, clutch fork, etc) Instructional video: Edited August 8, 2013 by Scooby2.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I've read it over several times. Where are the lengths? I'm sure it's all correct, but I've got the guy who has supplied many others with 6MT swap kits giving me conflicting information. I sent him an email yesterday and got nothing back, which pisses me off a bit because I just dropped >$4k on the kit. All I have to go on is "some guys on the internet say it's not going to work." In fact, when I said where I got the info, he told me, essentially, "don't question me, I've done this several times, I'll send you what you need." What I want to respond with is "The LGT shaft is this long. The STi shaft is that long." Asking multiple times doesn't help, so I'll stop--but neither does quoting first-page information that appears multiple times in the thread. Seriously... I've read it. A lot. I get that others use the Spec.B or 4EAT shaft, and sincerely appreciate all the hard work that's been done to research & compile it. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 8, 2013 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2013 Scooby, I read that--and it refers to a spec.b R180 diff. I was asking if a matching STi R180 diff for the matching transmission would be ok. From you requoting the first post I'm guessing your opinion is that "no, it will not work" since the OP says spec.b diff? "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 DNu - here you go. Presume essentially the same "additional length" for the spline shaft and the differential flange. STI Driveshaft is 50.4" Legacy 4EAT and SpecB Driveshaft is 56.02" So almost 6" difference which would be about the same as the wheelbase differences between the two. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 DNu - here you go. Presume essentially the same "additional length" for the spline shaft and the differential flange. STI Driveshaft is 50.4" Legacy 4EAT and SpecB Driveshaft is 56.02" So almost 6" difference which would be about the same as the wheelbase differences between the two. Excellent! I would make the same presumptions. Thanks mang. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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