FrozenNorthLGT Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Its not the bolt, its the screen in the bolt. You are right, half leave it out, half put a new one in, and yes leaving it out will let any debris and metal into the turbo that the screen would have caught. The debate is if the screen is clean what would have gotten into the turbo anyways. But if you leave it in, and somthing gets trapped in it, it could choke the oil flow to the turbo. On the other hand if you take it out, and somthing large gets into the turbo cause the screen is gone, it could take out the turbo anyways. Hope that helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB-M3 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Its not the bolt, its the screen in the bolt. You are right, half leave it out, half put a new one in, and yes leaving it out will let any debris and metal into the turbo that the screen would have caught. The debate is if the screen is clean what would have gotten into the turbo anyways. But if you leave it in, and somthing gets trapped in it, it could choke the oil flow to the turbo. On the other hand if you take it out, and somthing large gets into the turbo cause the screen is gone, it could take out the turbo anyways. Hope that helps... Thanks. So it's a lose lose situation. I guess the only preventative measure is to make sure to do the 3000 OCI and check the filter every time. I'm going to attempt this soon. I'll probably buy a new bolt and filter but the damn thing is $11. Do people really replace it with a new one every oil change? I'd expect just an inspection and replace the copper washers only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shik Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I guess the only preventative measure is to make sure to do the 3000 OCI and check the filter every time God bless you if you don't mind checking that screen at every oil change! I took the screen out after I got the car(about 20k ago), change the oil every 3K with synthetic and don't worry about it. What will be, will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005OBXT Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Would it make sense/be possible to change the banjo bolt on the turbo end out for something like the one in the link below that would allow for a pressure sensor. This way you could tell if the pressure dropped in the oil line due to blockage in the filter? http://www.namotorsports.net/detail.cfm/part_cd/NPCON.017/xref/base I am looking to buy a used 2005 OB XT but these forums have me worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted October 12, 2010 Mega Users Share Posted October 12, 2010 @2005OBXT I understand how forums can worry you about a car, but keep in mind that forums concentrate problems. If 10 cars out of 1000 have a problem, most of those ten will be on the forums complaining about their problem, while the other 990 are out driving. When I did my research, the information I got here told me that there are a lot of subaru's with problems, but there is a wealth of info on how to prevent the problems. Change your oil frequently and when you buy your car, if at a dealership, make the banjo filter part of the deal. Tell them what you know about the filter and that without them replacing it and showing you the old one, you won't buy the car. That will give you an idea of how it was maintained. You just need to check carfax for maintenance documents and get a warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derkle13 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 i could not get the *^&$*%@ thing to come out i tried forever and it just wasnt happening... ive got 80k on my 05 but ive also changed the oil every 3k since i got it so i guess i wont know if thats what caused the turbo to blow(monday night) until i manage to get the banjo out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB-M3 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 i could not get the *^&$*%@ thing to come out i tried forever and it just wasnt happening... ive got 80k on my 05 but ive also changed the oil every 3k since i got it so i guess i wont know if thats what caused the turbo to blow(monday night) until i manage to get the banjo out How many miles did it have on it when you bought it? Did the previous owner do 3000 mile changes? As for getting the bolt out do you have stubby wrench? Soak it in PB blaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derkle13 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 How many miles did it have on it when you bought it? Did the previous owner do 3000 mile changes? As for getting the bolt out do you have stubby wrench? Soak it in PB blaster. I got it with 70k and it has the carfax with every bit of scheduled maintenance done and recorded through the Subaru dealership to the day I picked it up. As for the bolt the right side one ended up completely rounded off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB-M3 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 I got it with 70k and it has the carfax with every bit of scheduled maintenance done and recorded through the Subaru dealership to the day I picked it up. As for the bolt the right side one ended up completely rounded off keep us posted. get those special sockets for stripped bolts. i'd like to see the mesh filter if all maintenence was done. the bulletin for the oil change interval didn't come out until 2009 so up until 70k the dealer was prob doing the 7500 service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted October 14, 2010 Mega Users Share Posted October 14, 2010 It depends on the dealership. My car is also an 05 and there were dealership OC on carfax. They were all about 4k miles, except for one that was 5500. I still haven't removed my banjo bolt, but in the next 2 weeks or so I'll do it. I'm curious about how mine looks at 83k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphatarget1 Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 By the way, you don't really need a stubby wrench. I was able to get it off with a regular 17mm wrench. I don't remember if I removed the coolant hose next to it, I think I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonation Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 I really need to do that for my cars at some point. Great thread folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeAldea Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Would it make sense/be possible to change the banjo bolt on the turbo end out for something like the one in the link below that would allow for a pressure sensor. This way you could tell if the pressure dropped in the oil line due to blockage in the filter? http://www.namotorsports.net/detail.cfm/part_cd/NPCON.017/xref/base I am looking to buy a used 2005 OB XT but these forums have me worried. The fitting you referenced http://www.namotorsports.net/images/detail/con017.jpg would not provide any useful information the way the oil lines are currently set up. If you replaced the banjo bolt with this fitting you would be reading oil pressure upstream of the screen. You would need the oil pressure sensor to be downstream from the screen to read any pressure drop if the screen were to start getting clogged. I suspect that there is not enough room at that spot to reconfigure the connection to put in a pressure sensor downstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homegrwn97 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Im at 56K on my 05' LGT and just took out the filter from the banjo bolt last friday. It seemed pretty clean at 1st glance but looking closely there were some little particles on the screen. It could of been crap from the gloves but good to know that screen isnt in there anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackfortune Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 That screen is there for a reason.....to keep those little metal particles out of the turbo bearing. Regular OCI's with good synthetic will keep your oil clean enough to keep sludge from blocking oil flow through the screen. I pulled my banjo bolt at 150k+ and it was clean....just a few tiny silver metal flakes trapped on the inside of the screen (where they belong)....replaced the banjo bolt/screen with a new part....and good to go...IMHO....keep the screen if you are running a VF40... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB-M3 Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 That screen is there for a reason.....to keep those little metal particles out of the turbo bearing. Regular OCI's with good synthetic will keep your oil clean enough to keep sludge from blocking oil flow through the screen. I pulled my banjo bolt at 150k+ and it was clean....just a few tiny silver metal flakes trapped on the inside of the screen (where they belong)....replaced the banjo bolt/screen with a new part....and good to go...IMHO....keep the screen if you are running a VF40... Wow 150+k with stock turbo. Nice man. Do you have the correct p/n for the banjo bolt with screen and washers. Ive seen like 3 p/ns floating around on the forum. Going to do mine soon. I want the p/n that includes everything. P/N 15194AA110 or 14445AA090? I checked both p/ns and they are different prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Just be informed and make your own decision... Arguments for leaving it in... - Protects turbo bearings - Subaru put it there for a reason Arguments for removing it completely - Requires periodic checking if left in - if it clogs it takes out your turbo and your engine, the opposite of what it was meant for - no other turbo cars from other manufacturers have a filter like that - your engine oil filter protects all of the other bearings in your car - Aftermarket turbo vendors say to get rid of it for their turbos and they probably have their turbo's interest in mind It's a personal decision... Regular oil change intervals and quality oil are more important than if you take it out or leave it in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 - no other turbo cars from other manufacturers have a filter like that 'nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackfortune Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Turbo/AVCS banjo bolt with screen: "GASKET - 12x16x1 # 803912040" (copper crush washers) "UNION SCREW- FILTER ASSEMBLY # 14445AA090" (banjo bolt with filter screen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxx4k Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Im at 56K on my 05' LGT and just took out the filter from the banjo bolt last friday. It seemed pretty clean at 1st glance but looking closely there were some little particles on the screen. It could of been crap from the gloves but good to know that screen isnt in there anymore. I took mine out after buying the car & did the timing belt @ 100k. http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd84/jaxx4k/IMG00198-20100526-1844-1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porterdog Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 - Subaru put it there for a reason SSpeed, your posts are always well thought out and I enjoy reading them. Continuing with the theme of the above quote, one has to wonder *what* the reason was. Talking it over with several friends (employed by the big 3) they were in agreement- it's *highly* unlikely a manufacturer would include an additional part unless there were a demonstrated need for it. Bryan at BNR has discussed the fragility of the VF40 axle/turbine joint (in the big-ass BNR Bolt Up thread)- basically a combination of a spin-welded joint and some type of machined groove too close to that joint. Doesn't sound like good engineering, honestly. Still, IME a properly functioning motor doesn't generate chunks of a size likely to get hung up in journal bearing clearances. Fines, certainly, but no big pieces. My surmise is that Subaru had an issue with swarf, bits left over from the various machining operations that the block has to go through. If that's the case, removal of the banjo bolt filters after 5 or 10k miles should pose no risk. Note that one could argue that the deletion of the filters (after what, '08?) supports this to some extent- quite possibly they improved some pre-assembly cleaning processes and thereby rendered the screens unnecessary. I pulled mine, needless to say. $0.03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB-M3 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 im trying to find the post where someone posted a letter from subaru listing the procedure to remove the filter and not keep it in. My understanding is that for people that pull out the filter for the 1st time and it is clear with no particles then the OCI are being done on time. Removing it would be the choice as the engine oil filter is doing its job. If I found particles in the filter I would put in a new banjo bolt and check it again after a few oil changes until it was clear. Then remove it. That is my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted November 10, 2010 Mega Users Share Posted November 10, 2010 Personally I think it is in there to prevent metal shavings from taking out the turbo during engine break in. Everyone knows you get a lot of metal shavings in the first few thousand miles of an engine's life. Enough of those could easily destroy the bearings. Once the engine has broken in and had a few oil changes, I don't see a need for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Checked mine at 34,xxx miles, found no obstructions, just a few tiny specks of debris. Left the filter in the bolt, and cleaned it with WD40 and compressed air. All of my oil changes (with synthetic oil) have been at 3750 miles, or 6 months, whichever comes first. I wire-tied the oil line to the block before loosening the banjo bolt, so that the inner washer would stay in place. And I moved the heatshield out of the way. This was not an easy, quick job (like changing the alternator belt), but one of moderate difficulty, because of space constraints. If you have tiny hands, and rubbery forearms, then the job is probably a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 porterdog and seabass07, those are both very good angles that I personally hadn't thought of... I had chalked it up to an engineering design that worked great and had a lot of potential benefits during testing, yet the long-term ramifications in real world use hadn't been fully explored. But your point is valid, most times parts like that don't get engineered unless there is a need for it. What that need was we may never know, but engine break-in or manufacturing swarf are great possibilities. Was it not included in the later models? I thought it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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