eldrego Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 These guys still at it? Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Also, I find it funny you still keep going to the downturn. Subaru has always been resilient to economic factors. At the worst of the downturn, subaru was knocking down records month after month, year after year. There are even articles about how Subaru is recession proof. Subaru's traditional owners keep their cars almost twice as long as industry average. They are also affluent. When they need a new car, they buy a new car. You are seeing things through rosy colored BL lenses and equating correlation with causation. Every time Subaru has struggle, it's been strategy related. The early 90's struggle was due to Subaru not knowing how to react to the proliferation of SUVs encroaching on its once uncrowded AWD market. Subaru thought making more FWD vehicles and trying to compete head to head with Toyota and the other mainstream brands was the way to go. It wasn't until Subaru decided to get a slice of the SUV market with the Outback and retreat into a cocoon of AWD niche status did Subaru pull out of the tailspin. It bought them a good 8 years, but times change. In the end. Subaru tried something. It was too niche to be sustainable and financially unsound to invest to the level necessary to keep up with the competition. Subaru changed directions and was better for it. There will be orphans from BL years, but shikata ga nai. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 http://jalopnik.com/subaru-might-give-us-a-legacy-with-a-turbo-or-a-flat-si-1521302199 GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 http://jalopnik.com/subaru-might-give-us-a-legacy-with-a-turbo-or-a-flat-si-1521302199 would love it, but doubt it [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrego Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 http://jalopnik.com/subaru-might-give-us-a-legacy-with-a-turbo-or-a-flat-si-1521302199 Let's see if a C&D article has any influence Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm25rs Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 http://jalopnik.com/subaru-might-give-us-a-legacy-with-a-turbo-or-a-flat-si-1521302199 I thought the 3.6 was officially announced for the new legacy... Is there any actual reason to think they might offer a smaller/more powerful H6? Does Subaru have something like that overseas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viber Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Also, I find it funny you still keep going to the downturn. Subaru has always been resilient to economic factors I think it's funny you think Subaru went premium but can't name the product or feature that made them premium Even funnier you think Subaru gave up being premium...according to Ikuo Mori. Yet here it is being compared to Audi, Mercedes-Benz and BMW. So either Subaru is still what you call "premium", and Mori is a liar, or maybe it's just AWD gets Subaru into interesting comparisons, and this whole fictitious premium notion, and how it ruined Subaru needs to go. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ft0HcISjzY]Audi vs. BMW vs. Mercedes vs. Subaru part 1 - YouTube[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzoSG0TJF2M]Audi vs. BMW vs. Mercedes vs. Subaru part 2 - YouTube[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exbagboy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well, that's a EDM 5th gen. Overseas Subaru's cost a lot more and are seen as more premium than in the US. They also came with more goodies than SOA, the 2010-2011 5th gen had Bilstein shocks but not sure if the 6spd manual was any better than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PtPixel Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Hell look at the front compared to the other 3 in the preview picture for the vid, it's so tall. You would not think there was a horizontally mounted engine under there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 would love it, but doubt it Let's see if a C&D article has any influence Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Stop the teasing damn it!!!! It's not going to happen. No car manufacturer releases the world debut of a car with set engines and then turns around IN THE SAME MODEL YEAR and says hey, we got more engines for you!!! Come on in guyzzzz! These new engines will kick the ass of the other engines we already put in the car and announced to the world. MAYBE in the 2016, maybe. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viber Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well, that's a EDM 5th gen. Overseas Subaru's cost a lot more and are seen as more premium than in the US. They also came with more goodies than SOA, the 2010-2011 5th gen had Bilstein shocks but not sure if the 6spd manual was any better than ours. While true, the USA is Subaru's key market, and Subaru is not now, nor has it ever been a premium brand. It has no model that could pass for premium, and lacks many features associated with BMW, Audi, and others. So the implication that going premium hurt Subaru, and therefor had to be retracted is false. Subaru is still making well featured cars globally as they always have, and in the USA they are making "competitive" products for the sub luxury class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 "Subaru considering turbo four, downsized six for latest Legacy" http://www.leftlanenews.com/subaru-considering-turbo-four-downsized-six-for-latest-legacy.html Much better, reality has arrived. Down the line, yes it MIGHT happen. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 While true, the USA is Subaru's key market, and Subaru is not now, nor has it ever been a premium brand. It has no model that could pass for premium, and lacks many features associated with BMW, Audi, and others. So the implication that going premium hurt Subaru, and therefor had to be retracted is false. Subaru is still making well featured cars globally as they always have, and in the USA they are making "competitive" products for the sub luxury class. That is the point! Subaru thought it was making premium vehicles, but it wasn't! The couldn't compete and ended up reversing course. It started with the Legacy and Outback and died with the B9 Tribeca. Even all the people here were pushing for Subaru to move further upmarket with the BL and were getting upset that Subaru wasn't keeping pace with luxury and near luxury makes. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrego Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Stop the teasing damn it!!!! It's not going to happen. No car manufacturer releases the world debut of a car with set engines and then turns around IN THE SAME MODEL YEAR and says hey, we got more engines for you!!! Come on in guyzzzz! These new engines will kick the ass of the other engines we already put in the car and announced to the world. MAYBE in the 2016, maybe. Yea, that's what I'm looking forward to in 2016. My car will be already paid off and money saved up. Let's go SoA! Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think it's funny you think Subaru went premium but can't name the product or feature that made them premium Even funnier you think Subaru gave up being premium...according to Ikuo Mori. Yet here it is being compared to Audi, Mercedes-Benz and BMW. So either Subaru is still what you call "premium", and Mori is a liar, or maybe it's just AWD gets Subaru into interesting comparisons, and this whole fictitious premium notion, and how it ruined Subaru needs to go. My you have selective reading and comprehension skills. Mori stated that Subaru wasn't premium because they say they are premium, they will be premium when the customers said they were premium. http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/19/subaru-best-cars/ "Premium" was all over everything to do with the 2005 Legacy in the press and in FHI communications. Subaru was becoming known as a quirky, likable product with a workaday attitude. But awareness and sales slipped throughout the 1990s and early 2000s, in part because Fuji had decided that Subaru's AWD technology deserved a premium price. Even though the Subaru brand was soundly locked in the Japanese mid-tier along with Mazda and Mitsubishi, Fuji felt that since its car was technically equivalent to an Audi, it should sell for a similar price. It took some convincing by American executives, but in 2007 the pricing was gradually readjusted, smoothing transactions on the sales floor and improving resale values. When the 2009 Forester was introduced, for instance, the base price was cut by $1,200. This is FHI's actual management plan: http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/ir/corporate/vision_archive1.html With FHI's principal vision stated as an aim to be a global player with premium brands, the FDR-1 calls for specific targets within that greater goal: develop technology that translates into moving experiences for its users; provide high-value premium products in view of the total value chain; offer the best products, sales, and services within brand categories; and secure a highly profitable corporate structure. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=595478 The little carmaker's executives are demanding that Subaru draw even with Audi and approach BMW in U.S. brand prestige within five years. Former Subaru of America CEO Takao Saito, who returned to Fuji Heavy in Japan in June, says Subaru aspires to be a prestige brand. But he says the push to be premium and more profitable comes mainly from the parent company. Fuji wants it sooner rather than later. But Saito sounds more realistic. "Within five years we will not reach BMW, but we will be closer to … Audi," he says. Subaru's positioning is not as high in the United States as it is in markets such as Switzerland. "Perhaps Fuji does not understand the difficulty of moving upscale in the United States," Saito says. All you're doing is proving my point. Subaru thought what it was doing was premium, but it wasn't by a long shot. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It was pretty well known the face lifted 2010 Mustang GT was going to be the last of the 4.6s and the Coyote would be coming out the next year. So it does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viber Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 ...snip... There is a big difference between selling a "premium" product that fails and overpricing your product out of whack for it's class, at "premium" price point that is not justified. Pricing and unrealistic business expectations have nothing to do with the 4th gen being premium and everything to do with bad management. The cliche of perception being reality is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It was pretty well known the face lifted 2010 Mustang GT was going to be the last of the 4.6s and the Coyote would be coming out the next year. So it does happen. Subaru's very own 2009 WRX got a new engine option after a 2008 remodel as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Subaru's very own 2009 WRX got a new engine option after a 2008 remodel as well. It was still a ej255 but the 09 had the vf52 whereas the 08 had the td04. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 There is a big difference between selling a "premium" product that fails and overpricing your product out of whack for it's class, at "premium" price point that is not justified. Pricing and unrealistic business expectations have nothing to do with the 4th gen being premium and everything to do with bad management. The cliche of perception being reality is false. The Legacy and Outback at that time were definitely a cut above the other mainstream vehicles. The extensive use of aluminum in the hood/trunk/suspension, electroluminescent gauges, projector headlights, big engine power, perforated leather, 5EAT, Z rated tires, side blinker mirrors, projector foglights, light weight construction, low CoG, Soft touch materials, extensive use of fabrics and textures through out the cabins... The engineering cost of the BL was much higher than any Camry or Accord at the time, and keep in mind that car went on sale in 2003 in Japan. It was something extremely special in the industry in 2003. Back then, Subaru based future product on what was available at the moment. That's how the 2004 Forester ended up being a generation behind size wise when everyone else moved their compact suvs up a size. The BL was competitive at the time with the aging A4 and 3 series. Shortly after the BL launched here, Audi and BMW launched redesigns that the BL couldn't keep pace with. It was left in purgatory between the camcords and the entry level near luxury vehicles. Had the 2005 Legacy gone on sale here in 2003 like in Japan, it probably would have performed much better. Subaru realized launching USDM vehicles a year later translated into product that could miss an opportunity to stand out and would be prematurely aged before its lifecycle was over. Both of those realities negatively impacted the Legacy. The 2005 Legacy was the last time there was a large difference between JDM and USDM launches. I got this Viber. I got this. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's premium vs mainstream, but then there's also obvious cost cutting that puts Subaru below even other mainstream cars (like the styling elements I complain about - I'm sure it's cheaper to have a straight edge cutoff on the back door with a plastic filler piece behind it, but it doesn't look as good as having better contours which manufacturers like Ford are managing to accomplish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's premium vs mainstream, but then there's also obvious cost cutting that puts Subaru below even other mainstream cars (like the styling elements I complain about - I'm sure it's cheaper to have a straight edge cutoff on the back door with a plastic filler piece behind it, but it doesn't look as good as having better contours which manufacturers like Ford are managing to accomplish). You don't have a clue. Go away. Grown ups are talking [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viber Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The Legacy and Outback at that time were definitely a cut above the other mainstream vehicles. Not exactly hard to do when talking about these turds... http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/images/xp/2005-honda-accord-hybrid.jpg http://cdn0.wn.com/ph/img/69/98/f55dc030092db72b9cbd3dab6b2e-grande.jpg Compared to... http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2005_subaru_legacy_100007651_l.jpg http://www.roadfly.com/new-cars/wp-content/uploads/gallery/2005-nissan-altima-preview/Nissan-Altima-SE-R.jpg http://farm1.staticflickr.com/111/273568164_1f324f7d41_o.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 So, B4, why was the 2010 Legacy such a good seller compared to previous years? It certainly wasn't an improvement in features, material quality and interior/entertainment technology. Maybe the size? I think I see more 2005-2008 wagons around here than 2010-2014 sedans. I also see more 2010+ Outbacks here than the Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You don't have a clue. Go away. Grown ups are talking http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/automobiles/bmw-inspired-roof-pillars-take-a-sudden-turn.html?_r=0 There's something odd about Subarus' appearance in general. I suspect it has to do with using the thinnest sheetmetal possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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