2016 hopes & wishes but ultimately disappointment thread

[Perscitus]

That and the extremely stupid 'dog tested, dog approved' campaign.

Most of the adds don't even air on TV, but if you watch them on youtube/vimeo, they are terrible and make little sense.

 

Yes, I know we're all supposed to be LGBT active outdoors 20-30-40-50 somes with pets but

why should we care and relate to retarded commercials about dog families driving base model Subarus?

 

(Granted - I may be a dog person with plenty of other much more exotic pets and yes I do love the outdoors, but SoA, I don't care about teen dogs licking each other or a family of dogs drinking water out of the toilet at a gas station or barking at the mailman truck - its not funny)

 

Don't even get me started on the quirky photographer and hot air baloon chaser ones. Both uber lame.

 

The only good adds to come out recently are the 'my/our Subaru saved our lives' commercials and the 'Legacy of Legacy' short. The rest suck.

[Viber]

 

New FHI President Ikuo Mori changed the strategy and killed the premium push. He stated Subaru isn't premium just because it says it is premium. Subaru will be premium when the customers say it is premium.

 

He also stated before that they would build cars and then put them on the market and say that they will sell. In the future they would ask the customers what they wanted and build cars based on the market.

 

Corporate-speak gobbledygook.

 

My 2008 LGT had every feature available. Beyond being a sport sedan what exactly was premium about it? Sound system? Nope. HID's? Nope. Push Button start? Nope. Turbo? Lots of cars have turbos. Nav? Lots of cars have Nav. Paddle shifters? Lots of cars have those too.

 

Hell, my My 2007 BMW came vastly more loaded and has tech features equal many 2014 cars. That's premium

 

So beyond not looking horrible, and being a sports sedan, which Mazda manages to do without being "premium", where was the premium in the Subaru line in the any Subaru vehicle?

 

Oh, it was everywhere else in the world, and EVERY feature in the ROW 4th gen is present in the 5th gen, including a sports sedan. HID's, upmarket sound, push button start. Subaru global was rocking those features years before the American model, and ALL those features are present in the global 5th gen. Ikuo Mori changed nothing.

 

Subaru USA was never featured like a premium car. Subaru global was featured very well with the 4th gen, and still is with the 5th gen. Nothing has changed.

 

 

That set up Subaru to eventually have the lowest incentive spend in the industry by getting transaction prices closer to MSRP as opposed to having higher, wishful prices and having to deeply discount the cars

.

 

This was a push by Fuji to increase margins. It has nothing to do with how subaru is packaged, which was never all that great. The first gen economy car Mazda 3 blew all subaru's out of the water in terms of tech and creature comforts.

 

Subaru abolished its disjointed ad strategy and pulled everything together under the "Love" campaign.

 

Which sucks

 

Mori negotiated the Toyota tie up which gave Subaru some supply chain relief with GM bowing out. Securing the larger investment and the contract to produce the Camry gave FHI huge financial relief.

 

So? These types of relationships between car companies is special?

[Viber]

Gas prices did not affect car sales until 2008.

 

 

In 11 years, Subaru has only failed to increase YOY sales twice.

 

Years 2007 and 2008.

 

What happened in those years?

 

Gas Prices spiked.

 

Auto industry was in decline.

 

Econony was in decline

 

Notice how those trend lines parallel Subaru's sales performance. The 4th get got dogged by the perfect storm of gas, economy

 

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/what-were-reading/gas%20prices.png

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fxxXZhbaMpk/TyoBRuBx5ZI/AAAAAAAAQzU/4k9NpydTZS0/s1600/cars.jpg

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/TM7CXm9FjwI/AAAAAAAAOm4/fBLNuFLp5Ro/s1600/cons2.jpg

[The_Todd]

Oh God, more graphs....unsubscribe.

[TrueWhiteBoy]

I also think it was around 2009 that I first started seeing Subaru television commericals

[alegend90]

I'd prefer less graphs and more talk about 2016, if there is any. At this point (since the main convo going on is about the past sales/commercials with dogs and not the 2016 model), maybe a specific thread should be made.

[exbagboy]

One more off topic post.

 

Anybody seen the Robert De Niro JDM Legacy wagon commercials? Gold!!!

 

[The B4]

Corporate-speak gobbledygook.

 

My 2008 LGT had every feature available. Beyond being a sport sedan what exactly was premium about it? Sound system? Nope. HID's? Nope. Push Button start? Nope. Turbo? Lots of cars have turbos. Nav? Lots of cars have Nav. Paddle shifters? Lots of cars have those too.

 

Hell, my My 2007 BMW came vastly more loaded and has tech features equal many 2014 cars. That's premium

 

So beyond not looking horrible, and being a sports sedan, which Mazda manages to do without being "premium", where was the premium in the Subaru line in the any Subaru vehicle?

 

Oh, it was everywhere else in the world, and EVERY feature in the ROW 4th gen is present in the 5th gen, including a sports sedan. HID's, upmarket sound, push button start. Subaru global was rocking those features years before the American model, and ALL those features are present in the global 5th gen. Ikuo Mori changed nothing.

 

Subaru USA was never featured like a premium car. Subaru global was featured very well with the 4th gen, and still is with the 5th gen. Nothing has changed.

 

 

.

 

This was a push by Fuji to increase margins. It has nothing to do with how subaru is packaged, which was never all that great. The first gen economy car Mazda 3 blew all subaru's out of the water in terms of tech and creature comforts.

 

 

 

Which sucks

 

 

 

So? These types of relationships between car companies is special?

 

 

That exactly it... The Legacy wasn't premium despite Subaru's feeling that they were going to be able to compete with the real premium vehicles. This was based off of Subaru's affluent customer base. They already had 50% of their customers making 6 figures. They could tap into that market with more upscale vehicles. Guess what, it flopped. The traditional customers could buy BMW's but had no interest in buying BMWs. The new to the brand customers loved the performance, but Subaru couldn't keep up with the jones's. When the 335i debuted, it was pretty much game over.

 

And you mention Mazda... Mazda is doing the same thing! http://proimageautomotive.com/news-blog/mazda-s-move-upscale.

 

With the loss of Ford's investment and supply chain, Mazda needs to be able to charge more for its cars to cover the bills. By producing in Mexico and adding content to justify the pricing, Mazda is hoping it can retain profitability. Mazda has been struggling financially through 2012. I've yet to look at 2013 financials.

 

Mazda was able to do what it did with the original 3 because of shared platform cost with Ford and Volvo. Mazda is also a MUCH larger company than FHI is on a global scale. Time will tell if Mazda can succeed where Subaru failed.

 

Subaru USA was featured as premium car to the best of FHI's ability. The cost to add features would have skyrocketed the price to the prices other markets pay for Subarus (exchange rate adjusted). America still doesn't have the stomach for that. Subaru was already deeply discounting the LGT as it was.

[The B4]

I'd prefer less graphs and more talk about 2016, if there is any. At this point (since the main convo going on is about the past sales/commercials with dogs and not the 2016 model), maybe a specific thread should be made.

 

kinda dumb since the 2015 hasn't even hit dealerships yet. Pay attention to the graphs, you might learn something so 5 years from now you won't be throwing out opinions and subsequently getting shut down by info you had access to but chose to ignore.

[Viber]

That exactly it... The Legacy wasn't premium despite Subaru's feeling that they were going to be able to compete with the real premium vehicles. This was based off of Subaru's affluent customer base. They already had 50% of their customers making 6 figures. They could tap into that market with more upscale vehicles. Guess what, it flopped. The traditional customers could buy BMW's but had no interest in buying BMWs. The new to the brand customers loved the performance, but Subaru couldn't keep up with the jones's. When the 335i debuted, it was pretty much game over.

 

 

That's not really the point however.

 

Beyond just saying "we are premium" and trying to creep up margins on the Suburban, liberal, yuppie types that are generally attracted to Subaru's, Subaru was never premium. It's empty lip service on the part of Subaru Management, equally so to say "we are not premium".

 

Which translates to a logical fallacy in saying "Subaru sales were down because they went premium" when in reality, no such event ever happened.

 

Meaning, how does this translate to actual product execution. Not just saying the words, and increasing the price a couple of percentage points.

 

What I am asking, simply, is in terms of an actual product and features, tell me how Subaru went premium and "failed" as a result?

[StoplightAssassin]

kinda dumb since the 2015 hasn't even hit dealerships yet. Pay attention to the graphs, you might learn something so 5 years from now you won't be throwing out opinions and subsequently getting shut down by info you had access to but chose to ignore.

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/6eb505263f8d4154daaf540ccfc288ab/tumblr_muumsaVbTh1qz9wlpo1_400.gif

[The B4]

In 11 years, Subaru has only failed to increase YOY sales twice.

 

Years 2007 and 2008.

 

What happened in those years?

 

Gas Prices spiked.

 

Auto industry was in decline.

 

Econony was in decline

 

Notice how those trend lines parallel Subaru's sales performance. The 4th get got dogged by the perfect storm of gas, economy

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently you don't like to read. Gas prices did not affect car sales in 2007. Only the domestics were struggling in 2007. The Japanese did extremely well in 2007

 

2007:

Mazda up 9.8% (biggest gainer in 2007 of all brands)

Mitsubishi up 8.8% (yeah... even Mitsubishi)

Nissan up 4.5%

Honda up 4.5%

Toyota up 2.9%

Suzuki up 0.6%

Subaru down 7.0%

 

Subaru increased sales in 2008. Only one of two brands to increase sales and the only full line line brand as mini was the other. During the actual gas crunch of 2008, Subaru was on track for record sales. It wasn't until the financial collapse that sales dipped for Subaru in 2008.

[dgoodhue]

Corporate-speak gobbledygook.

 

My 2008 LGT had every feature available. Beyond being a sport sedan what exactly was premium about it? Sound system? Nope. HID's? Nope. Push Button start? Nope. Turbo? Lots of cars have turbos. Nav? Lots of cars have Nav. Paddle shifters? Lots of cars have those too.

 

Base price on a 2005 Legacy 2.5i base 5MT was 21,445, the current 2014 2.5i base is 20,295. Using an inflation calculator (based on US department of labor statistics) the 2005 was ~25,500 when counting for inflation today. Whether or not it is considered premium is an opinion but it was priced noticably higher.

[pnmid]

I'd like to drive a Forester with the 2.0 DIT and CVT, and then decide if I could accept a Legacy with the vanilla exterior and interior and the 2.0 DIT and CVT.

[The B4]

That's not really the point however.

 

Beyond just saying "we are premium" and trying to creep up margins on the Suburban, liberal, yuppie types that are generally attracted to Subaru's, Subaru was never premium. It's empty lip service on the part of Subaru Management, equally so to say "we are not premium".

 

Which translates to a logical fallacy in saying "Subaru sales were down because they went premium" when in reality, no such event ever happened.

 

Meaning, how does this translate to actual product execution. Not just saying the words, and increasing the price a couple of percentage points.

 

What I am asking, simply, is in terms of an actual product and features, tell me how Subaru went premium and "failed" as a result?

 

Can you pretty please with sugar on top go back to 2004/2005 and tell me what brands customers and magazines were comparing the legacy to?

 

Any number of articles detail Subaru's US premium strategy.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20040712/SUB/407120752

[Viber]

Subaru increased sales in 2008. Only one of two brands to increase sales and the only full line line brand as mini was the other. During the actual gas crunch of 2008, Subaru was on track for record sales. It wasn't until the financial collapse that sales dipped for Subaru in 2008.

 

Barely.

 

Subaru sales slumped 2007 and 2008 before rebounding in 2009. This time frame corresponds with high gas prices, economic downturn and low auto sales in the USA. The Legacy just got caught up in a very bad time for the country.

 

2006

200,703

 

2007

187,208

 

2008

187,699

 

2009

216,652

 

Can you pretty please with sugar on top go back to 2004/2005 and tell me what brands customers and magazines were comparing the legacy to?

 

Any number of articles detail Subaru's US premium strategy.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20040712/SUB/407120752

 

It doesn't matter what "auto magazines" compared it to. It's not all that bizarre for an AWD sport sedan to be compared to other AWD sport sedans. It's not rocket science.

 

That however is not a premium or not premium matter.

 

You say Subaru went premium, and failed, and I am asking how in terms of product execution. What is premium about the 4th gen Legacy and Outback? Like exactly. What about them is premium and "failed".

 

And I already said one is not premium by saying so. It's all product execution, so linking articles about Subaru saying they are "going premium" is irrelevant.

 

Subaru has been doing turbo charged sport sedan Legacy models since 1989. This type of product is neither new, special, or "premium"

[The B4]

Barely.

 

Subaru sales slumped 2007 and 2008 before rebounding in 2009. This time frame corresponds with high gas prices, economic downturn and low auto sales in the USA. The Legacy just got caught up in a very bad time for the country.

 

2006

200,703

 

2007

187,208

 

2008

187,699

 

2009

216,652

 

Correlation does not equal causation. I reiterate, gas prices did not affect car sales until 2008. All the Japanese did well in 2007 except Subaru. In 2008, Subaru was having a RECORD YEAR until the financial collapse put a stop to it. I repeat... SUBARU WAS ON TRACK FOR A SALES RECORD DURING THE 2008 GAS CRUNCH! Subaru benefited immensely during the gas crunch as people were downsizing out of SUVs and into its AWD crossovers and cars. By August, Subaru was up 9% over 2007.

 

 

All of that went away with the financial collapse and Subaru barely eeked out an increase over 2007.

[LegGTLT]

Sooooooooooooooooo... you two need a room?

[The B4]

you wanna join too?

[Viber]

In 2008, Subaru was having a RECORD YEAR until the financial collapse put a stop to it. I repeat... SUBARU WAS ON TRACK FOR A SALES RECORD DURING THE 2008 GAS CRUNCH! Subaru benefited immensely during the gas crunch as people were downsizing out of SUVs and into its AWD crossovers and cars. By August, Subaru was up 9% over 2007.

 

 

According to you, that's not possible because the 4th Gen was a failure and flop. Such things don't jibe with "record sales".

 

Furthermore Subaru sold more Legacy and Outbacks than Foresters or Impreza models.

 

The path to "record sales" was paved with the Legacy and Outback...some failure...

[LegGTLT]

Naw, our flame burned out in 2009. Now I just like to post my hopes and dreams about what I want full well knowing it won't happen but at the same time knowing I don't want to be burned by a "premium" car upkeep and relegate myself to continually fixing my 2005. It's a very sad but honest living.

[The B4]

According to you, that's not possible because the 4th Gen was a failure and flop. Such things don't jibe with "record sales".

 

Furthermore Subaru sold more Legacy and Outbacks than Foresters or Impreza models.

 

The path to "record sales" was paved with the Legacy and Outback...some failure...

 

2008 Impreza and 2009 Forester (went on sale in March of 2008)

[Viber]

2008 Impreza and 2009 Forester (went on sale in March of 2008)

 

More Legacy and Outbacks were sold still. And that's during a recession, with an aging platform.

 

Though at this point we are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

I contend the downtown and fuel price hurt Subaru. You think the 4th gen ruined everything because it went premium, which is something you can't quantify in terms of an actual product with a series of features.

 

What do I consider going premium? Millennia. Phaeton. Genesis. Cadenza. Subaru never did that.

 

Nothing much to say that hasn't been said.

 

What I know for sure is Subaru killed the LGT. Yay?

[fredrik94087]

Correlation does not equal causation. I reiterate, gas prices did not affect car sales until 2008. All the Japanese did well in 2007 except Subaru. In 2008, Subaru was having a RECORD YEAR until the financial collapse put a stop to it. I repeat... SUBARU WAS ON TRACK FOR A SALES RECORD DURING THE 2008 GAS CRUNCH! Subaru benefited immensely during the gas crunch as people were downsizing out of SUVs and into its AWD crossovers and cars. By August, Subaru was up 9% over 2007.

 

 

All of that went away with the financial collapse and Subaru barely eeked out an increase over 2007.

 

According to you, that's not possible because the 4th Gen was a failure and flop. Such things don't jibe with "record sales".

 

Furthermore Subaru sold more Legacy and Outbacks than Foresters or Impreza models.

 

The path to "record sales" was paved with the Legacy and Outback...some failure...

 

[The B4]

More Legacy and Outbacks were sold still. And that's during a recession, with an aging platform.

 

Though at this point we are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

I contend the downtown and fuel price hurt Subaru. You think the 4th gen ruined everything because it went premium, which is something you can't quantify in terms of an actual product with a series of features.

 

Nothing much to say that hasn't been said.

 

What I know for sure is Subaru killed the LGT. Yay?

 

Now you're just making stuff up. Legacy and Outback declined every year after 2005. The 2006 Sales record was on the back of +18,000 Tribecas (first full year) and a 22% increase in Impreza sales.

 

Subaru bowed out of the discount race in 2007 after a bloodbath in 2006 to hit a record. That was responsible for 2007's decline when every other Japanese brand was up (even Mitsu and Suzuki). For all of 2008 until Lehman brothers in september... Subaru was having a record year.

 

The US market fatally wounded the LGT. Subaru just put it out of its misery.