New Short Block Time...

[ibr_adam09]

&^%*%& !!!

[hobo2701]

number #3 for sure might as well while your in there

[BarManBean]

Really sucks. I'm with some of the others that you might want to look for a new shop. Seems pretty obvious that when something goes wrong that quickly they either screwed up or should have noticed any issues--that's what you pay them for, yes?

 

Also, there seems to be a number of shortblocks being sold on the forums lately. Hell, riderdude seems to be able to build them to order if you want.

[Turkeylord]

The more I think about it, the more I just want to do myself. Trying to decide if I want to tackle the drop-in piston install.

[BarManBean]

The more I think about it, the more I just want to do myself. Trying to decide if I want to tackle the drop-in piston install.

 

Have you seen this before?

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gmtEQ1GpmA]Subaru STI Short Block Assembly - YouTube[/ame]

 

Honestly it makes assembling a SB look REALLY easy--and I really think there's nothing that difficult about it. You just need a machine shop to do some of the work, and a micrometer / feeler gauges to check that work before / during assembly. If you're careful and clean, and measure everything twice, you should be good to go.

[BarManBean]

And i'll just post again--watch that video--it's awesome.

[Turkeylord]

Watching it now, lol...

[FJuan]

Yes. If you have a good machine shop hone out the block, resurface the crank and match the forged pistons to the cylinders, you should be able to do it your self. As long as you follow the "Vacation Pics" instructions on reassembly of the block, you should be in good shape.

 

The other route is to order a block with the forged piston already installed, which should cost you around $2,500. It's your call based on your budget.

[JJr]

Have you seen this before?

 

 

Honestly it makes assembling a SB look REALLY easy--and I really think there's nothing that difficult about it. You just need a machine shop to do some of the work, and a micrometer / feeler gauges to check that work before / during assembly. If you're careful and clean, and measure everything twice, you should be good to go.

 

Thx Michael, that was awesome! . What would happen if you dropped the second ring ( that holds the wrist pin in place) inside the engine would you pull the wrist pin and piston out to retrieve it:confused:

[BarManBean]

Thx Michael, that was awesome! . What would happen if you dropped the second ring ( that holds the wrist pin in place) inside the engine would you pull the wrist pin and piston out to retrieve it:confused:

 

Dont.

 

Sounds about right tho, or tilt the block and try to "pour" the ring out.

[heiche]

Last winter I was surprised how much real-estate was required to spread out all of the parts as the disassembly progresses - at least 1 garage bay floor worth. Just take your time, and try to be as organized as possible, lay out all the parts in order, so that reassembly goes smoothly.

 

The vaca pix are great instructions and the torque values are all there.

[Nrw]

[Gex]

Bummer about the second motor. What a waste of $$$$! Can't believe the engine builder isn't willing to at least split the cost of a new block with you.

[JJr]

+1. Build that short block yourself, I was surprised at how easy ( if you take your time and are as meticulous as the builder) it was. It sure seems if you get distracted or take off in the middle for lunch you could screw 1 minor detail up. Sorry for all the time and money this is costing you. Need to add, if your engine builder isn't willing to cover any of the rebuild, how much can you trust a guy that doesn't stand behind his work after 50 miles. I'll bet the builder in the video would cover it. Lesson for all. Sorry again.

[GEE-OTTO]

Ive always wanted to build a SB but I dont have the space or proper measuring tools to ensure everything is to spec. However the video that BMB posted (ive watched like 7 times over the years) he trusts the spec of the parts ordered and the machine shop returns I feel it could be a DIY project.

 

But then again a fresh 257 bottom end ready to go all you need to do is heads and accessories sounds really good.

[rob-2]

Darn man. Mine came with a warranty. Really sorry. I did have to use their in house turner.

[Turkeylord]

Thanks guys. Still got some thinking to do. Just a shitty deal all around...

[hobo2701]

Ya I would look into rebuilding yours there are lots of good videos out there and it's very straight forward with the right set of tools.

[Turkeylord]

I talked to the machine shop over lunch and they want to take a look at the block halves. I'll probably set up a time to just go get my parts from the builder and be done with him.

[06lgtspecb]

Very sorry to hear about the bad luck. Being semi local I'm curious to know who or which company built your motor?

[Turkeylord]

very sorry to hear about the bad luck. Being semi local i'm curious to know who or which company built your motor?

ygpm

[boxkita]

As someone who considered the "build it myself" vs "hire a builder" question, it came down to my lack of experience vs my intended usage. I wanted a "bulletproof race motor" more than I wanted a learning experience. I talked to a number of builders in my area and elsewhere (AZT Installs, for one). A street motor that rarely gets hammered on probably would have been ok for a first build (ignorance is bliss). A HTA68 E85 motor that will likely get hammered hard is probably not a good starting point for your first build.

 

That you've had 2 failed builds already, I would not start thinking of building my own as the next step. Mine failed in the first 15 minutes due to a clearance problem with the forged pistons. When the machine shop tore it down (they hadn't done the work the first time), they found even non-forged pistons would not have worked. We discussed the problems and solutions and my intended use. They came back with a plan, which I vetted on this forum and talking with a couple of other shops including my builder. I had them clearance the motor a bit more, by having them build for a 8000rpm motor that had to hold together for an hour at a time. it sounds like a diesel on startup, however, it has stood the test of time very well (24k miles and still fine).

 

At this point, I'd take a step back and evaluate your intended goals for this build as well as your expected use (not your 10% use, but the 90%). Once you know what you want, contact a few builders and explain what your goals are. Ask their opinion for getting the results you want. You're looking for a shop that listens to you, not just checks off parts against a list.

 

If you are looking to save money, I'd question your motives. A HTA68 E85 build would not be my first choice if I was looking for a budget build. If you are expecting to goto the track with such a build, I would doubly question them. Not being a track snob, but lapping is really hard on a motor. And clearances with the forged parts will be important. Add in the E85 with much higher power output and you're going to be in the realm of breaking things quickly.

 

I run HTA68 on a pretty conservative tune (pump gas @335tq) and find I have more than enough power to get into trouble. With a few hardware changes (exhaust & headers), I could easily get 400tq on the current build. Which would require upgrading the transmission, axles, diffs, etc. If you want alot of horsepower, I assume you have allotted money for the 6MT upgrade that will be required. Or you plan on rebuilding/replacing the 5MT more often (My 5MT lasted 27k miles after the rebuild)

 

Of your options, I'd buy the case halves, and spec the rest of the parts out to match your build. You'll still have to do machine work whichever option you take, so why not start with it right from the start. If going that route, you can find a number of shops that will do the shortblock to your specs and comes with a warranty (which should be your biggest concern at this point). Mine came with a 90day warranty, which included the builder coming to the first track day to do some unexpected warranty work.

 

long-winded, I know. Sorry. Good luck with your 3rd build.

[Turkeylord]

Lots to think about there, thanks John.

 

Just for clarity, this is my first failed SB "build" - the first was a piston failure in the original stock block.

 

That's what I thought with this build - leave it to the pros. Well, that didn't work out so well. All the work that I put in - assembling the long block, R&R the engine - seems to have held up fine.

 

I don't plan on road racing, but HPDE type events do sound like fun. I intend to continue 1/8th and 1/4 mile drags a couple times a year. I'd like to have a car that will haul the groceries, pull a small boat, hoon in the snow, and then go rip off a 12.5 second 1/4. I understand that's a tall order, but believe it to be achieveable.

 

I'll be pushing the 5MT/R160 some, I understand that.

 

Case halves and a crank would be $1300, but the rods I have are overkill, so I was considering selling them and going with stock STi rods, preferrably 0 or low mile take-outs if I can find them.

 

The pistons I have are 99.75, so they're no use to me with new case halves unless I immediately bore them out - which seems silly to me. The block halves I have are 99.75 and need a light hone. I'd almost rather use them together myself than sell them.

 

You're right about the warranty. If there's not going to be one I might as well build the dang thing myself.

 

When the machine shop quotes me ~$40 to clean up the cylinder bores and pistons it's pretty friggin tempting. Trading my Carrillo rods for STi rods should pay for a new crank. So I'd be in for a new oil cooler, oil pan (probably KB), and gaskets basically... ~$1k?

 

I guess it all depends on exactly what shape the pistons and block halves are in. I should know more soon.

[Turkeylord]

*Oh, and I should add a block heater and remote starter if I'm going to try to DD the thing in -20F temps.

[FJuan]

Another option would be to part out the block and use those funds for an already built block with forged pistons. This may give you piece of mind of having every thing machined again.