BAC5.2 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 That's like the music industry claiming every download is a lost album sale. Morons. It is. That's why they get paid per song download now. If I can buy just the song I want, I'm not going to buy the album for much more money. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted June 14, 2011 Mega Users Share Posted June 14, 2011 If I can just steal music from my living room, then why make all of the cokeheads more rich? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumfoo1 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 how much does it cost since i may be running mine with an e85 tune i figure i better look into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthesnail Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Send SeeeeYa a PM. He'll tell you his price to send a kit. Considering how long it takes to make one from scratch, it's a good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimblaz Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I did this about 3 weeks ago. Its a bit tedious but very well worth it. It is holding everything together perfectly and should last a lot longer. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I did this about 3 weeks ago. Its a bit tedious but very well worth it. It is holding everything together perfectly and should last a lot longer. :-) yup, while you save up for a better tmic or a fmic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 yup, while you save up for a better tmic or a fmic.... That is a perfect example of the mod's use, for those who, in fact, have a better TMIC or a FMIC in their future. Saving for those is one thing, but even if you have the cash sometimes the TMIC you want isn't immediately available or the complete FMIC kit along with all that that installation entails is a little far away in time. If your OEM TMIC fails you don't have any choice but to deal with it today. However, the presumption that everyone either wants or needs a replacement for the OEM TMIC, once it is modded, is incorrect. Many of us, even if track work is involved, find the bulletproofed OEM TMIC to be perfectly adequate. I know I do. And I know others who do as well. That said, it likely lurks in everyone's dreams who owns one of these cars to look under the hood and see the beauty of an STI-sized TMIC. I know I do. But everything in its own time. I can wait now without worry mine will STB. FWIW, and not to cast asparagus on anyone's decision who has one... but you couldn't pay ME to have an FMIC on this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 That is a perfect example of the mod's use, for those who, in fact, have a better TMIC or a FMIC in their future. Saving for those is one thing, but even if you have the cash sometimes the TMIC you want isn't immediately available or the complete FMIC kit along with all that that installation entails is a little far away in time. If your OEM TMIC fails you don't have any choice but to deal with it today. However, the presumption that everyone either wants or needs a replacement for the OEM TMIC, once it is modded, is incorrect. Many of us, even if track work is involved, find the bulletproofed OEM TMIC to be perfectly adequate. I know I do. And I know others who do as well. That said, it likely lurks in everyone's dreams who owns one of these cars to look under the hood and see the beauty of an STI-sized TMIC. I know I do. But everything in its own time. I can wait now without worry mine will STB. FWIW, and not to cast asparagus on anyone's decision who has one... but you couldn't pay ME to have an FMIC on this car. well, there's without a doubt a higher efficiency level of aftermarket TMIC's than the stock TMIC. Studies have been done and you can search this forum for pre/post IC thermistor readings. If the stock TMIC was a tiny bit stronger, I'm sure a good amount of people would still be using it. However, the reduction in intake charge-side temps leads to a nice increase in torque and a bit in horsepower. In fact, local to me, we have dyno'ed pre/post fmic installation and have come to the conclusion that a fmic, even with a stock vf40/46, renders a noticeable increase in whp and wtq. We could debate for days about such but, if you're on a budget, the bulletproof mod is for you. If you're looking for the best gains, a fmic or a process west tmic is going to be the best bet. Of course a little methanol wouldn't hurt either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Users seabass07 Posted June 15, 2011 Mega Users Share Posted June 15, 2011 http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/tumblr_ljh0puClWT1qfkt17.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 http://files.sharenator.com/lozGr_GIF_Collection_of_someone_eating_popcorn-s360x240-181194.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 well, there's without a doubt a higher efficiency level of aftermarket TMIC's than the stock TMIC. Studies have been done and you can search this forum for pre/post IC thermistor readings. If the stock TMIC was a tiny bit stronger, I'm sure a good amount of people would still be using it. However, the reduction in intake charge-side temps leads to a nice increase in torque and a bit in horsepower. In fact, local to me, we have dyno'ed pre/post fmic installation and have come to the conclusion that a fmic, even with a stock vf40/46, renders a noticeable increase in whp and wtq. We could debate for days about such but, if you're on a budget, the bulletproof mod is for you. If you're looking for the best gains, a fmic or a process west tmic is going to be the best bet. Of course a little methanol wouldn't hurt either.... You have it in a nutshell there... throw a good WI kit on the stock TMIC and forget it. I did on my LGT. I am also considering it on my WRX, seriously. As it is I have higher IDCs at Stg2 than I'd like, even with boost constrained and AFRs adjusted to 11.0. That means a pump and injectors. But with meth I could forget octane and heat issues, make a bunch more power, and in the process reduce my IDCs. Incidentally, one member who has BP modded his OEM IC just finished half a hundred laps at a CA racetrack... all perfectly handled by his BulletProof OEM TMIC. I mention this as case in point about the dyno vs real world performance of intercoolers. Big differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 You have it in a nutshell there... throw a good WI kit on the stock TMIC and forget it. I did on my LGT. I am also considering it on my WRX, seriously. As it is I have higher IDCs at Stg2 than I'd like, even with boost constrained and AFRs adjusted to 11.0. That means a pump and injectors. But with meth I could forget octane and heat issues, make a bunch more power, and in the process reduce my IDCs. Incidentally, one member who has BP modded his OEM IC just finished half a hundred laps at a CA racetrack... all perfectly handled by his BulletProof OEM TMIC. I mention this as case in point about the dyno vs real world performance of intercoolers. Big differences. I'd spend the money on a new TMIC rather than methanol with the stock TMIC. That's like upgrading the turbo and keeping the stock downpipe on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'd spend the money on a new TMIC rather than methanol with the stock TMIC. That's like upgrading the turbo and keeping the stock downpipe on. In my case, with the LGT, I listened to that kind of advice from my tuner, and bought and installed a Perrin TMIC. Since I was going to install an AVO380 setup as well it made sense to me. I'd been running meth with the stock (JB Welded and wired together ) TMIC successfully on my VF40 and had hundreds of logs of it. The Perrin brought an extra PSI of boost, from lowered core loss, which with the VF40 meant more power. That made me happy. What did not make me happy was the seemingly interminable issues fitting the Perrin to my car. It made meth nozzles easier. As far as being a better intercooler... meh. On meth the OEM IC did fine as an intercooler, never showing an issue relating to it being saturated and ineffective at cooling. But one thing the Perrin DID bring that wasn't great, was more heatsoak in daily driving. How could it not. I'd not get the same TMIC again. Of course, there is no argument that a PW or similar TMIC wouldn't work BETTER. It would. But no matter how superior an intercooler it or one like it is, it is going to be an inferior daily driver IC. The factory built the best one for that. I still like the meth part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 In my case, with the LGT, I listened to that kind of advice from my tuner, and bought and installed a Perrin TMIC. Since I was going to install an AVO380 setup as well it made sense to me. I'd been running meth with the stock (JB Welded and wired together ) TMIC successfully on my VF40 and had hundreds of logs of it. The Perrin brought an extra PSI of boost, from lowered core loss, which with the VF40 meant more power. That made me happy. What did not make me happy was the seemingly interminable issues fitting the Perrin to my car. It made meth nozzles easier. As far as being a better intercooler... meh. On meth the OEM IC did fine as an intercooler, never showing an issue relating to it being saturated and ineffective at cooling. But one thing the Perrin DID bring that wasn't great, was more heatsoak in daily driving. How could it not. I'd not get the same TMIC again. Of course, there is no argument that a PW or similar TMIC wouldn't work BETTER. It would. But no matter how superior an intercooler it or one like it is, it is going to be an inferior daily driver IC. The factory built the best one for that. I still like the meth part. that is why a FMIC is so much better! plenty of piping room for the meth nozzle and very minimal heatsoaking. I don't know how to properly put this..... you're running meth on a wired/jbwelded stock tmic? I'm at a loss for words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Here we go again. PartyRock - SeeeeYa is wrong, and he won't listen to science. Let him live in his own little world. For a reason why, I suggest investing 5 minutes into reading this: http://lifehacker.com/5811255/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-on-the-internet [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 that is why a FMIC is so much better! plenty of piping room for the meth nozzle and very minimal heatsoaking. No argument there, and if there were more affordable V-mount front mounts I'd be tempted. While I might sound like I think OEM Suby is super stuff, that is all predicated on a Stg2 environment. Stg2 for me is around 300 whp, and simply enough. I couldn't get that with my LGT without a lot more than a bandaid on my intercooler. That is what I keep bringing focus here to bear on... stock to Stg2 setups and Daily Drivers. Not beyond. As far as I'm concerned, having done the stock location turbo swap, I would not go through upgrading again without going rotated. That starts another thread, about totally other things, including a big FMIC of some kind. But here, in this thread, it is all about the lower end of the scale... where the modded OEM IC is perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyRock Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Though I would love to see a stock TMIC being blasted with 24psi, I wanna see carnage...seeing damaged subaru goods is funny. It's even funnier when it's being held together with jbweld and wire coat hangers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil_ong Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 i have this mod and it's been doing well so far. i dd my car and really don't do anything else with it. i had a problem with the end tank looking like it was beginning to separate. maybe i was wrong, but i wasn't willing to take the chance. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2620/5717221662_3a5b0d2f19_b.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2235/5716653149_2705a9d4e6_b.jpg i got worried and started looking around at options. a friend pointed me to the BP mod. when i crimped down the tabs, there was lots of movement. if nothing else, i have peace fo mind that i likely prevent something catastrophic from happening. the big pluses for me: 1. stock is good enough for me. i can't justify spending $600 on an upgraded TMIC for my type of driving. 2. the wife didn't bitch about the amount of money spent! would i like to have a sexy after-market TMIC that'd gain me a few extra horse? hellz yeah! but i also like having the money to spend on something else instead of on something i don't NEED. just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil_ong Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Here we go again. PartyRock - SeeeeYa is wrong, and he won't listen to science. Let him live in his own little world. For a reason why, I suggest investing 5 minutes into reading this: http://lifehacker.com/5811255/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-on-the-internet stop being so surly. :smooches: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimblaz Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 That is what my poor top mount started to look like. You could even see some of the tabs cracking..... dumb..... I feel this is the perfect untill i get more money fix. and the car seems to pull a bit harder too. but that could just be the peace of mind i have now. hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 that is why a FMIC is so much better! plenty of piping room for the meth nozzle and very minimal heatsoaking. I don't know how to properly put this..... you're running meth on a wired/jbwelded stock tmic? I'm at a loss for words. FWIW, even AVO only claim their TMIC is adequate to about 320whp. How much could the puny stocker possibly be good for? Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil_ong Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 What's our stock output? I can't remember off the top of my head. For that matter, what are numbers for a typical stage 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 FWIW, even AVO only claim their TMIC is adequate to about 320whp. How much could the puny stocker possibly be good for? Actually, who cares what the AVO is rated at? It isn't relevant to this thread. It is good to remember some figures that come from the Real World. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1888473&highlight=uncle+phil I'll bet that not a single person on this thread, with or without an upgraded TMIC, will best the performance above. I'll also bet that not a single person who has modded or who is contemplating modding their OEM TMIC... the subject of this thread, BTW, and nothing more... will ever drive their car that hard. I know I won't. And if that isn't enough, consider what I mentioned earlier... one BP Mod user tracks his car, as late as last week. No problems whatsoever with IC performance. That is because it was on a track, not a dyno. Seems fruitless to beat a dead horse, but the continuing argument that the OEM IC isn't capable of handling track performance, OR is inadequate for 100% of anything asked of it in daily driving... is exactly that, a dead horse. The stock plastic-endtanked OEM TMIC is not only capable of those jobs without issue... ONCE MODDED ... it is a superior DD to any other TMIC solution. P e r i o d. ( << rabbit-in-distress call for all the coyotes here ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 A C5 Corvette Z06 will do 12.40's all day long. A new SRT-10 Viper can do very low 11's, even 10's, all day long. An EVO 8 (with sunroof) can pull a 12.90 if the guy is lucky. All bone stock. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 What kind of TMIC does a Z06 use? Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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