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BulletProof-TMIC Mod - LGT, 08+ WRX


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I shouldn't have mentioned my shameful act. I'd love to be a purist, but sometimes I tinker, just to see. The multiple layers of HD Reynold's Wrap with the long continuous overlaying spiral of HD HVAC adhesive backed tape :) .... is working well. I knew it would because I've been doing that for years. But I didn't originate it, I found an old thread once where a guy did that to his headers, etc. with success... and I thought I'd use it and see what happened. Nothing happened. It just works well enough for me. But next time I might use some DEI stuff... for the smell factor if nothing else.

 

We'll see, it's easily removed. I'll check out DEI for an upgrade. Maybe.

 

If I didn't know better I'd swear I can still smell that tape glue burning, even here at the computer. I may never forget it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
The comments I made about the weight of the manifold and CoG were for fun, and refer to another thread where SeeYa was claiming the plastic intercooler is better than an alloy part for this reason. Sorry if you didn't get the joke.

 

Hmmmm. A significantly lighter, in addition to better designed, intercooler is a joke?

 

Searching delivered no specifics, but enough data for a comparison. The shipping weight for a stock LGT TMIC is seven pounds. The shipping weight for a Perrin TMIC is twenty five pounds.

 

As one who considers weight a factor in my car's performance, that kind of disparity, regardless how the specifics shake out, stands out as significant. I resent my spare and go without it sometimes, I purposefully keep only a small amount of windshield wiper fluid, I remove all unnecessary weight in the interior and trunk. A lighter battery will replace this stocker shortly. AND I have direct experience with both intercoolers.

 

Yes, the comparison was intended. Yes, I consider the weight disparity worth mention. No, I was not joking.

 

If autocrossing didn't teach me anything, if years of intent responsibility for each and every pound, and where that pound was, when I was racing didn't teach me anything... maybe I would find a significantly lighter weight at the highest point of my engine funny, too. But I doubt it.

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Well, it is difficult to increase heat absorption capacity of similar designed intercoolers, made of the same materials, without a weight increase. I doubt metal end tanks are that big of contributor to overall weight in an all metal TMIC.
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Hmmmm. A significantly lighter, in addition to better designed, intercooler is a joke?

 

Searching delivered no specifics, but enough data for a comparison. The shipping weight for a stock LGT TMIC is seven pounds. The shipping weight for a Perrin TMIC is twenty five pounds.

 

As one who considers weight a factor in my car's performance, that kind of disparity, regardless how the specifics shake out, stands out as significant. I resent my spare and go without it sometimes, I purposefully keep only a small amount of windshield wiper fluid, I remove all unnecessary weight in the interior and trunk. A lighter battery will replace this stocker shortly. AND I have direct experience with both intercoolers.

 

Yes, the comparison was intended. Yes, I consider the weight disparity worth mention. No, I was not joking.

 

If autocrossing didn't teach me anything, if years of intent responsibility for each and every pound, and where that pound was, when I was racing didn't teach me anything... maybe I would find a significantly lighter weight at the highest point of my engine funny, too. But I doubt it.

 

Wow. Just... wow.

Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs.
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I usually don't eat, run for an hour in a rubber suit, and take a laxative to empty my colon before track days. Also, I make sure to shave my head and face. Every ounce counts!

 

:lol:

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Well, it is difficult to increase heat absorption capacity of similar designed intercoolers, made of the same materials, without a weight increase. I doubt metal end tanks are that big of contributor to overall weight in an all metal TMIC.

 

The bar and plate intercooler design, in its entirety not just the endtanks, make them heavy... although the endtanks ARE a part of the extra mass.

 

With all due respect, an intercooler isn't measured by its ability to absorb heat, it's measured by how efficient it is in reducing the temperature of the input versus its output through air to air transfer.

 

Those who think of an IC as some big reservoir into which heat is stored, are not wholly incorrect. But it is that aspect that is the deficit, not the attribute. Because it is a big reservoir of trapped heat, when it heatsoaks, as it must, it takes that much longer reintroducing that heat into the air flowing through it. Without airflow to whisk the heat away, it remains in the IC. An intercoolers performance at 100+mph is not relevant here. And in daily driving, there is no better intercooler than the stock one... for multiple reasons.

 

The stock plastic endtanked intercooler is a superior daily driving intercooler. Period. There is no argument to the contrary.

 

The fact that the stock intercooler is the lightest possible intercooler is relevant to me, especially considering it provides my car with the capacity to manifest the power it does... which is significantly above any LGT's stock capacity. Even among other WRXs, however, it has proven... time and again as I posted in the very first post on this subject... to be adequate. It just has a tendency to be unreliable physically.

 

Comments relative to an upgrade "path" belong in an arena where performance in excess of stg2 is being discussed. This thread, and the BP Mod in general is about daily drivers who are happy with 300 whp or less.

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I usually don't eat, run for an hour in a rubber suit, and take a laxative to empty my colon before track days. Also, I make sure to shave my head and face. Every ounce counts!

 

:lol:

 

No, but if you were a competitive runner you might. ;)

 

But humor from the people who stop by and want to comment in a thread totally irrelevant to them, or the subject, in order to appear cute are OK, too. Keeps things ... funny. :rolleyes: And it allows a continued iteration of fact in the face of years of sophistic manipulation of reality.

 

the BP Mod in general is about daily drivers who are happy with 300 whp or less.
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The bar and plate intercooler design, in its entirety not just the endtanks, make them heavy... although the endtanks ARE a part of the extra mass.

 

With all due respect, an intercooler isn't measured by its ability to absorb heat, it's measured by how efficient it is in reducing the temperature of the input versus its output through air to air transfer.

 

Okay.

 

You still need sufficient thermal mass, to sink the heat, to transfer it to the air. Aftermarket intercoolers are usually designed for the heat demands of uprated turbos.

 

That's my only point.

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Okay.

 

You still need sufficient thermal mass, to sink the heat, to transfer it to the air. Aftermarket intercoolers are usually designed for the heat demands of uprated turbos.

 

That's my only point.

 

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii287/bac52/dont_feed_the_trolls.jpg

[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard
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The difference curb weight wise is the tare weight of an anorexic girl on the high end or that of a larger dog on the low end.

 

Lighter is better without a doubt but I still affirm that Slim Fast Shakes are the cheapest weight reduction mod.

No, the name has nothing to do with bragging about 20 inch wheels...
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No, but if you were a competitive runner you might. ;)

 

But humor from the people who stop by and want to comment in a thread totally irrelevant to them, or the subject, in order to appear cute are OK, too. Keeps things ... funny. :rolleyes: And it allows a continued iteration of fact in the face of years of sophistic manipulation of reality.

 

This is a public internet forum; you have to expect idiots to chime in, especially when a thread gets as blown out of proportion as this one. While my comment may have been a bit silly, it was more of an analogous statement to put your extreme weight saving ideas into perspective. Is the weight of the driver not important when considering the performance of the car?

 

Take away 2 lbs of washer fluid or 2 lbs of body weight, the car can't tell the difference.

 

And your pretentious diction is nothing more than ineffective communication if the intended audience (me) doesn't understand it. :)

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Lighter is better without a doubt but I still affirm that Slim Fast Shakes are the cheapest weight reduction mod.

 

Someone gets it. :)

 

rao's right, some of you guys are way too serious. :lol:

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it allows a continued iteration of fact in the face of years of sophistic manipulation of reality.

You have not proven any 'facts', merely spouted the same claims over and over. You are claiming stock is better than aftermarket but don't have any data to back it up. I don't see any sophistry and I doubt you'd recognize it if it stood up and bit you in the ass.

Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs.
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First post:

 

This simple mod is the absolute cure for the "plastic" TMIC, that makes it better IMO than the solid aluminum WRX TMIC, and I also argue that it is better than most of the aftermarket alternatives... for a street driven DD Stg2.

 

Seems pretty direct to me. This is expanded on some, but it isn't complicated to begin with. Apply BP Mod fix, end IC worry.

 

But let's get serious.

 

A friend once said, (edited for TV) "Don't ever eat crap, you never know when you might get to like the taste of it." Seems like a few here never had a friend give them that advice...

 

Can you imagine what one of these Subarus would look like if it were designed by the average poster in this forum??? A big honkin IPR TMIC, the Turbo-of-the-Day, giant straight thru catless exhaust, two or three oil catch cans and separators, intakes fabbed from sewer pipe, a set of forged piston castanets for the knock sensor, at least fifteen gauges with little books on strings to figure out what they mean, no bushings at all... just metal inserts for that perfect transfer of power, a good strong clutch and a tranny and diff swap...

 

Anyone care to guess the reliability of the composite? Think Subaru would want to copy it? Would sales go through the roof if the collective intellectual might of those who argue here that Subaru's engineering sucks and needs replacing with "superior aftermarket" pieces were followed?? How can anyone trust people who never mention a winch for their four wheeler.

 

Silly boys.

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Take away 2 lbs of washer fluid or 2 lbs of body weight, the car can't tell the difference.

 

:rolleyes: amateurish! The car can definitely tell the difference.

 

It depends on how far removed the instant roll centers (pitch, yaw and roll) the weight is. Obviously weight removed from the washer bottle in the front is much more important than 2 lbs removed from the driver's seat.

 

If you people can't even get the fundamentals down, why bother :lol:

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I was going to use this quote as an example next time I mention the BulletProof-TMIC Mod (spare IC to mod on sale soon?? :) )...

 

hi i was wondering what would i have to do if i wanted to make my legacy into an i model the reason i ask is that gas prices are getting high and the turbo means that this legacy doesnt get good gas mileage i was almost going to buy a pans..prius but thought awd would be better for florida and i was hoping i could get similar gas mileage but the turbo kind of kills that lol

 

so wat can i do does anyone make a kit to turn my legacy into an i modle or how about making it into a hybrid do kits like that exist

 

thanks

 

... but decided not to. While it may satisfy some as unpretentious effective communications and stand as an example for me to follow... I pass. Besides, I might need some advice from that poster some day. :rolleyes:

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:rolleyes: amateurish! The car can definitely tell the difference.

 

It depends on how far removed the instant roll centers (pitch, yaw and roll) the weight is. Obviously weight removed from the washer bottle in the front is much more important than 2 lbs removed from the driver's seat.

 

If you people can't even get the fundamentals down, why bother :lol:

 

I've heard on nasioc that I can save weight if I got a double lobotomy, since the weight offset would allow me to run thinner, lighter sway bars.

 

I have nothing to to with this thread, as I live in a safe neighborhood where my intercooler isn't at risk of being shot at, but I come here for the useful information on vehicle dynamics. :lol:

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If the stock TMIC is lighter and more efficient than an aftermarket TMIC why not figure out a way to run two of them in series? You would still be lighter than one aftermarket unit and have twice the cooling capacity. :confused:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:hide:

Stay Stock Stay Happy
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If the stock TMIC is lighter and more efficient than an aftermarket TMIC why not figure out a way to run two of them in series? You would still be lighter than one aftermarket unit and have twice the cooling capacity. :confused:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:hide:

 

or you could send the same amount of money as a perrin tmic and get a FMS FMIC kit and know it will fit....

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^^^ We all know it's near impossible to drive a front mount equipped car on the street. I hear they add 3 or 4 seconds of lag to the turbo and are only useful for top speed runs. :lol:
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