BulletProof-TMIC Mod - LGT, 08+ WRX

[goneskiian]

Opps!

 

it should read liar

 

 

 

I figured as much. Just so long as we all know I wasn't the only one telling fibs. :lol:

Edited April 14, 2011 by goneskiian

[SeeeeeYa]

Uh oh... more facts

 

I weighed a complete mod kit. Someone somewhere brought up the subject but at the time I didn't have the facts...

 

6.69 oz

 

Pretty insignificant weight "penalty" for such an absolutely fate-altering few ounces. Isn't it.

 

At least it is center of mass and won't upset handling too much... although I hear The Lair People can detect such disturbances in The Force.

[praedet]

From a cooling standpoint, the stock IC is better in EVERYWAY vs. the aftermarket. The thing the aftermarket ones do is allow more flow with less pressure drop. That is about all. Which actually makes for poorer cooling...

That actually isn't true.

Which part?

 

Let's see. The more you cool, the more your pressure drops.

Stock TMIC, better cooling, higher pressure drop.

Aftermarket TMIC, poor cooling, lower pressure drop.

 

The reason for this is because the channels in the aftermarket TMIC are larger. That is great for lots of flow, but poor for heat transfer. The large channels mean less pressure drop, and poor cooling due to those channels helps more.

 

Honestly, the problem is the direction and design of the WRX/LGT TMIC more than anything. The shorter the passage, the better the pressure drop. So with more channels that are shorter, you can make smaller channels with better heat transfer and you get a better overall TMIC. (Lower temps and less pressure drop) But, the turbo layout doesn't allow for that...

 

The plastic is MUCH better than aluminum for flow and heat if it is reinforced...

[BAC5.2]

Which part?

 

Let's see. The more you cool, the more your pressure drops.

Stock TMIC, better cooling, higher pressure drop.

Aftermarket TMIC, poor cooling, lower pressure drop.

 

The reason for this is because the channels in the aftermarket TMIC are larger. That is great for lots of flow, but poor for heat transfer. The large channels mean less pressure drop, and poor cooling due to those channels helps more.

 

Honestly, the problem is the direction and design of the WRX/LGT TMIC more than anything. The shorter the passage, the better the pressure drop. So with more channels that are shorter, you can make smaller channels with better heat transfer and you get a better overall TMIC. (Lower temps and less pressure drop) But, the turbo layout doesn't allow for that...

 

The plastic is MUCH better than aluminum for flow and heat if it is reinforced...

 

I'm not here to teach people about engineering. I've stated my point, with facts. I've been refuted by people with an incomplete (or nonexistant) understanding of what they are talking about. I'm done.

 

You guys can carry on believing whatever you want. I'll keep myself grounded in the magical world of data and facts.

Edited April 18, 2011 by BAC5.2

[SeeeeeYa]

I'm not here to teach people about engineering. I've stated my point, with facts. I've been refuted by people with an incomplete (or nonexistant) understanding of what they are talking about. I'm done.

 

You guys can carry on believing whatever you want. I'll keep myself grounded in the magical world of data and facts.

 

Frankly, I have no idea why you are "here" in the first place. You have zero to offer, on any aspect of the subject of this thread, from a practical or "engineering" point of view. Sort of like slipping on a pair of shorts and joining the Lakers on court, just because you've watched a couple games.

 

The people in this thread, in fact the entire 2.5 powertrains forum, are people who mod, who tune, who ask for more performance and/or better reliability from their turbo cars... not ones looking to make them NA, or detune them, or otherwise reduce their stock performance.

 

The people in this thread tend to argue more about the "how" and "why" of things instead of rant specious negativism. You have to be in the game to play. Before this thread is done, those playing will define the value of its content, not bystanders with their eye glued to the knothole in the fence.

 

That said, thank you for your participation. Foils provide the lighting that highlights the actual content.

[BAC5.2]

Frankly, I have no idea why you are "here" in the first place. You have zero to offer, on any aspect of the subject of this thread, from a practical or "engineering" point of view. Sort of like slipping on a pair of shorts and joining the Lakers on court, just because you've watched a couple games.

 

The people in this thread, in fact the entire 2.5 powertrains forum, are people who mod, who tune, who ask for more performance and/or better reliability from their turbo cars... not ones looking to make them NA, or detune them, or otherwise reduce their stock performance.

 

The people in this thread tend to argue more about the "how" and "why" of things instead of rant specious negativism. You have to be in the game to play. Before this thread is done, those playing will define the value of its content, not bystanders with their eye glued to the knothole in the fence.

 

That said, thank you for your participation. Foils provide the lighting that highlights the actual content.

 

You are so right. I don't know why I bothered coming into a thread trying to correct misinformation backed with actual fact. I'll be sure to never provide engineering insight on this forum again. Instead, I'll nod along like a sheep, bow down to your infinite automotive knowledge, and be mesmerized by your mastery of poetic syntax and wikipedia quotations. I'll bask in your light and knowledge, and spend eternity throwing little cocktail pickles at your feet. I'm so sorry for darkening your step with knowledge and information. Please forgive me. Clearly I was wrong for disagreeing with you.

 

There seems to be a lack of "bow down" smileys, so this will just have to suffice

[SeeeeeYa]

This thread is about 5 little pieces of aluminum and their hardware, a total of 6.x ounces, that when installed on a stock Subaru plastic-endtanked intercooler makes that intercooler free of any known defect.

 

This thread is about a mod that cures a genetic defect in the Subaru LGT/08+ WRX intercooler.

 

This thread is of interest to those who prefer to keep their stock intercooler, for whatever reason, and want more horsepower or want better reliability or both.

 

This thread encourages questions relating to the BulletProof-TMIC Mod - LGT, 08+ WRX as outlined by the OP.

 

Here is a picture of this BP Mod installed. For those with LGTs the installation does not require modification of your engine cover. For the WRX the mod makes the stock air duct work better.

[rao]

How does the duct tape fit into this mod?

[seabass07]

I think that's foil tape...

[praedet]

I'm not here to teach people about engineering. I've stated my point, with facts. I've been refuted by people with an incomplete (or nonexistant) understanding of what they are talking about. I'm done.

 

You guys can carry on believing whatever you want. I'll keep myself grounded in the magical world of data and facts.

You don't need to teach me about fluids engineering, it is what I teach

 

Point out what is wrong in what I said. Use BL theory, heat transfer theory, or empirical results...

 

You can't, because by all of the above, I am right

[BAC5.2]

You don't need to teach me about fluids engineering, it is what I teach

 

Point out what is wrong in what I said. Use BL theory, heat transfer theory, or empirical results...

 

You can't, because by all of the above, I am right

 

This isn't worth it.

 

Your reply makes it seem as though you are ignoring the fact that the core is internally finned, and that while the cross sectional flow area increases, the internal fin count proportionally increases. This means that your volume to total surface area ratio increases over the stock core.

Edited April 18, 2011 by BAC5.2

[FocuS]

.....I for one have enjoyed the fact the SeeeeYa tried a quick and cheap fix to one of the failure points of the stock TMIC!

 

I don't plan on changing out the turbo too soon so I'm happy to try this fix...now the only major issue I have on my stg. 2 LGT is the 5EAT weaknesses!

[SBT]

Okay - nuff said on both sides. There are pros and cons to anything in the realm of "modding", some do it on the cheap and hope to maximize the benefit they can get out of stock pieces, while others see additive benefit from the engineering put into aftermarket pieces.

 

Let's be grateful that there's a solution for those who are of the previous view or not necessarily in a position to go AM parts and keep this thread constrained to that discussion. The alternative is less acceptable.

 

Thank you in advance.

[SeeeeeYa]

Here is an install and review thread about the BP Mod on a WRX :

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2169450

 

I'm going to have to get some of that DEI heat shield.

[SBT]

I like the DEI idea for even AM applications. Seems like a decent idea with no downside.

[underpowerd]

Here is an install and review thread about the BP Mod on a WRX :

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2169450

 

I'm going to have to get some of that DEI heat shield.

 

does its shielding job well ( have been using on fmic pipes, intake/ Al intake heatshield for very long time) -- a bare hand touch comparison tells all.

over time with cycling the adhesive leaves something to be desired on some surfaces (like the plastic/nylon parts).

Edited April 20, 2011 by underpowerd

[SBT]

^ Good point - still looks better than cloth heat wrap. I wonder if you put this on and then sprayed it with some kind of clearcoat (at least on the less heated parts, i.e., plastics and non-direct exhaust parts) if it would maintain it's reflectivity and better hold its adhesion?

[mwiener2]

I've got a bunch of DEI stuff all over my car. All good stuff.

[underpowerd]

^ Good point - still looks better than cloth heat wrap. I wonder if you put this on and then sprayed it with some kind of clearcoat (at least on the less heated parts, i.e., plastics and non-direct exhaust parts) if it would maintain it's reflectivity and better hold its adhesion?

 

or maybe a bit of that 3m adhesive spray beforehand?

[BAC5.2]

I use dei's reflect-a-gold at work. Very good stuff. Looks silly, but works great

[SeeeeeYa]

Adhesives.... I didn't fully respect that aspect when I was "wrapping" the upper section of my downpipe with aluminum foil layers all bound with HD HVAC aluminum tape. My car smoked and smelled like poo burning for weeks... Mrs was not amused. Its all but undetectable now but the adhesive from that aluminum tape, while good stuff and shows no sign of deteriorating, melts, runs and stinks at downpipe temps.

 

I'm assuming the adhesive spray people use on cloth wraps doesn't do that. Does anyone know if the DEI stuff Seventh used is rated at high enough temp to use on a dp?

[rao]

You need to put the tape and wrap on the INSIDE of the pipes and tubing if you want any real benefit.

 

I hope you all realize that this incessant wrapping is totally useless.

[underpowerd]

Adhesives.... I didn't fully respect that aspect when I was "wrapping" the upper section of my downpipe with aluminum foil layers all bound with HD HVAC aluminum tape. My car smoked and smelled like poo burning for weeks... Mrs was not amused. Its all but undetectable now but the adhesive from that aluminum tape, while good stuff and shows no sign of deteriorating, melts, runs and stinks at downpipe temps.

 

I'm assuming the adhesive spray people use on cloth wraps doesn't do that. Does anyone know if the DEI stuff Seventh used is rated at high enough temp to use on a dp?

 

well, the foil layer is backed by a run-of-the-mill fiber 'header' wrap; but of course, then comes the clear adhesive.

from what i recall of the applications listed/promoted on the packaging, i wouldn't attempt to use it directly on any exhaust components.

[BAC5.2]

Almost all adhesives are poor for extremely high heat. The optimal solution would be to use a non-adhesive backed blocking material affixed to a pipe with some type of constant tension clamp (like one used for a CV joint boot).

 

IMO, I wouldn't use any adhesive backed heat protection on any exhaust components. I would use them on intake and adjacent components (firewall, under side of hood, etc).

[SBT]

^ What I was thinking too.