New BW EFR turbos coming soon through FR!!!!

[Rester5350]

Great post, thanks. You opened my eyes to a fact I have been overlooking. I am doing a Full Race BW ts setup in my 5eat Obxt and didn't think about the downpipe fitting. We will have to see what happens.

[KGB]

Hopefully it work smoothly but if there is a risk of interference then

maybe re-routing the water/cooling lines, as needed is an alternative solution to a whole new custom DP,

but lets hear from Geoff@FR first about the AUTO-specific DP fitment...

 

Please keep us updated on your progress... Thanks!

[mwiener2]

Legend is at 5000 feet above sea level. Take note of that, it matters alot.

[SBT]

KGB - By water pipes, are you referring to the Trans Cooler Lines - which carry trans fluid to the radiator cooler (and hopefully to the auxiliary trans cooler as well) and back to the trans? If so, wasn't aware that they ran up the passenger side of the Legacy/OB platform, and given that they are hose-connected to the trans, should be fairly easy to extend a work-around.

[KGB]

I split my time between Palo Alto CA and Boulder Colorado so

while driving in Colorado I'll be just as affected as Legend and my tuning goals account for that.

[Max Capacity]

KGB, I see you mentioned a PW tmic.

 

They stopped making those.

 

 

May be Geoff could fab up something for our cars that would fit great and work well.

[mwiener2]

I have heard (On this forum only) about PW nixing their TMIC's, but have not seen or heard any indication of that from my vendors or PW.

[rhino6303]

I thought the PW intercoolers were back in stock?

[Full-Race Geoff]

please comment on how you suggest that we work through the matter of a fitting your Kit's UP & DP around an Auto Tranny and its water lines? I am concerned that since the Auto is wider than the MT this is a big potential issue so lets try to work it out ahead of time - what can Full Race do for us?

 

 

Next:I am looking for your comment to help me choose between the 6258 and the larger 6758

 

auto tranny fitment: Spoke to fabricators at Cobb, Yimisport and efi. My understanding after speaking with all 3, is the up pipe and turbocharger will fit perfectly. The downpipe from the turbo until the firewall will also fit perfectly. However, past the firewall they all had different opinions, due to the width of the transmission case.

 

edit:I found this thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3379470&postcount=9 so somewhere on this forum there are the photos you seek.

 

the simplest solution i can suggest IF it does not fit: purchase the "upper portion" of a Full-Race downpipe (only from the turbos vband up until the flex section) and then also purchase an unwelded flex section. Then sacrificing your current 3" downpipe, cut that at a joining location and using the flex, weld them together in place.

 

6258 vs 6758? They are honestly very very similar turbos. I think either of them should be able to break 300+whp on 91 octane pump, thats not a worry IMHO. I am using the 6258 on my beater sr20 project just becuase of the quick response and great torque recovery on an ultra-simple setup. for an auto tranny id think the early spool would be nice, but ultimately you will have to decide what works for you and fits your application/goals

[m sprank]

^ If I can assist, I am still here.

[KGB]

Thanks Geoff, it sounds like the DP fitment on an Auto has solutions I can live with.

 

Now for choosing a turbo:

The smaller 6258 offers ~15% upside vis-a-vis VF52 and similar spool but,

at a cost of $4.5-5K P&L - this is like $100/hp, is that worth it?

The larger 6758 has a ~30% upside potential but ~400rpm slower spool...

 

My decision to take a risk on the larger 6758 is hinging on being able to get it to spool closer like the VF52 than the AVO380.

 

Now, what can be done to speed up 6758's spool by another 150-200rpm

to bring it closer to the VF52, on Cal91?

This will make it more palatable for me to pull the trigger.

 

no single supporting mod will get me there but, perhaps several supporting mods

working in concert? Here are the options (in addition to the mods I already got on)

I am contemplating:

 

(Note that low end & spool have all to do with quick & efficient energy transfer from the engine to spin the turbo via fast exhaust gas flow, and hotter is faster so...)

 

To speed things up, I need to keep the Inner Diameter (ID) of all the pipes from the engine up to the turbo small, NO wider ID than OEM.

(Yes, this may limit the top end somewhat on E85 but it should be fine for a

lower pressure Cal91 application which is what I am after.)

 

Since I will be using the Full Race or similar UP and most of these are made of thin steel rather than

thick casted Inconel, the only thing that I can do is to wrap one either using DEI tape or use Perrin, APS or similar thermal blanket.

Should be less of an issue where there is no salt used.

(thermal coatings do little to keep the heat in - they are too thin to serve as an effective thermal barrier.)

 

Next, remove the HFC from the DP and/or mid-pipe, this should reduce the back pressure somewhat, but I am not sure if this will actually help the turbo to generate more torque - some back pressure is needed...

 

Finally, convert the pre-turbo piping to a 1.5 Scroll setup - based on the data from

a 1.5S Full Race kit used on a turbo with similar size to the 6758 there is a gain

of 150-200rpm in earlier availability of torque (not sure if this is the same as spool,)

but this should definitely make the car more enjoyable in the City, and offer more

whp to boot.

How to accomplish this is not clear.

Full Race does not presently offer a 1.5S Kit for the Subaru LGT fitment for the EFRs

so I was thinking of getting a JDM TS manifold (its cast so will retain the heat well,)

and finding a shop to make a custom 1.5Scroll up-pipe to fit the EFR turbo...

 

Member feedback & comments and suggestions are welcome - thank you.

 

ps: for those who are on the fence waiting for TS versions to come out soon, these will have a larger housing ~0.92a/r vs 0.64 for the current SS EFRs. They will flow easier but will NOT spool up any faster so, we need a solution based on the current Single Scroll EFRs.

[Rester5350]

~ 400 rpm doesn't seem like a huge difference to me. I am unsure if it can even be felt on the butt dyno? Do not get me wrong, I am all about moving the curve to the left but at what cost?

[KGB]

Good comment - I have been struggling with that too.

The fact is, on 91, my car reaches peak boost at 3,700 with VF52 and

4,200 with AVO380, (and the AVO has the addtional benefit of TGVD and PnP everything.)

and this 500rpm difference is definitely discernible by the butt dyno.

 

I am willing to accept 200rpm slower that VF52 i.e. 3,900rom.

On MT cars the smaller 6258 spools around 3,300 but I suspect that on my automatic transmission

it will spool a bit later - similarly to the VF52 spool - this is based on comparing many dynos for MT vs. Auto cars with VF52 and similar mods.

The larger 6758 is reputed to spool up 400rpm slower than the 6258 so on my car that is 4,100,

a 100rpm faster than the AVO380 but still much slower than the VF52 & 6258.

 

That is why I am looking into additional supporting mods with an explicit purpose to shave

and addtional 200rpm off that to bring the spool down to 3,900rpm for the 6758.

Any idea and suggestions are very welcome - thanks.

 

Note that the only dyno of the 6758 in stock location I seen:

http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-turbo-kit/subaru-sti-stock-location-efr-internal-wastegate-turbo-kit-2.html

shows full spool only at 4,300 which does NOT agree with comments by FR and Yimi about it being only "a little" slower than stock...that is why I am so concerned about spool!

[Rester5350]

What about something like this in conjunction with the 6758 ts t4? Food for thought.

 

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D2481517&sa=U&ei=hLLNUdzMJ5K84AO63oEQ&ved=0CBsQFjAH&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNH7dOihYmwKAp__vPDG_pzH9tMSMg

[executor485]

So what's the best option for my 6.2L F150? Twin or a single GIANT turbo?

[ClimberDHexMods]

~ 400 rpm doesn't seem like a huge difference to me. I am unsure if it can even be felt on the butt dyno? Do not get me wrong, I am all about moving the curve to the left but at what cost?

 

To each his own preference. I dropped more than one setup over 400rpm, and would happily do it again for another 400rpm (street car, city, chief priority: always having acceleration).

[KGB]

Just spoke with Reid at SP Racing about their Quick Spool Valve tech:

 

http://www.spracingonline.com/store/SP_Switches_for_Quick_Spool_Valve_or_Boost_Activated_Cutout/3752

 

The idea would be to employ one of these in conjunction with the upcoming EFR 6758 or 7163 TS 0.92 turbo.

 

The QSV should, in theory, convert a 0.92a/r into 0.46a/r to build up pressure quicker and then open up to allow max flow & top end.

 

For the Subaru app, we'll need an additional manifold pressure sensor + actuator...

 

Reid thinks that there many 400-500rpm gain to be had here...

 

So, at least in theory, we can have a faster spool, faster than a "conventional" upcoming TS EFR!!! and with little to no loss in top end performance - sounds good to me Many folk have have documented these results on their Supras, and I think that there is at least one fellow who is doing it now on his Subaru...

 

I am waiting for additional info from SP and will share...

 

Any comments?

 

-Igor

[ClimberDHexMods]

Any comments?

 

Subaru folks late to the tech party... that never happens

 

Plan to run the car/turbo without the valve first. Then add it later if you don't like the way it drives.

 

I don't know much detail on the QSVs, but you will want it to be open when cruising, or else you're going to increase your EGBP when putting around on the highway, trying to get decent gas mileage. If that is handled by the controller, then please disregard.

 

Or http://www.ebay.com/itm/PORSCHE-997-TURBO-2007-09-ONE-LEFT-VTG-TURBO-CHARGER-ORIGINAL-PORSCHE-USED-/350778319393?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51ac046221&vxp=mtr

 

I didn't research it, and you probably don't want to run an R&D operation.

[Rester5350]

To each his own preference. I dropped more than one setup over 400rpm, and would happily do it again for another 400rpm (street car, city, chief priority: always having acceleration).

 

This will be my first real turbo swap, so 400 rpm doesn't seem like a major hit to me. I have seen an Sti with a 8374 hit peak boost @4200 so that was the range I have been expecting to see. I do think that adding 400 to that would be a game changer. My vf40 is hitting max spool at ~3700 so 4200ish seems ok to me. Is this thinking flawed? I will also be doing a bigger cam and head work on a sleeved block.

[m sprank]

???Your VF-40 hits peak boost at 3700rpm??? What fuel? What altitude? What is wrong with your car???

 

Have you considered EG Temps with your turbo set up? I am with Climber, I am not a fan of waiting until 4000+rpm to build boost. Without e-85 it makes the car feel like a dog around town. Like waiting for Vtec to kick in.

[Rester5350]

???Your VF-40 hits peak boost at 3700rpm??? What fuel? What altitude? What is wrong with your car???

 

Have you considered EG Temps with your turbo set up? I am with Climber, I am not a fan of waiting until 4000+rpm to build boost. Without e-85 it makes the car feel like a dog around town. Like waiting for Vtec to kick in.[/quote

 

I don't know seemed ok to me.

datalog3.csv

[KGB]

With UP & DP + good tune VF40 should reach full spool under 3,000rpm, even on an AUTO, mine does - it was so fast to redline that the tranny could not shift in time and I ended up bouncing off the redline limiter - not fun. Had to increase the redline by 600rpm to solve this problem.

On a related topic - what are you plans to prepare your AUTO transmission for the kind of power the EFR 8374 will generate?

Do you at least have an upgraded Valve Body like HexMods or IPT? with the power you'll be making with the 8374 i think you want one if your tranny is to survive...

Ditto for tranny cooler you'll be dissipating at least twice the heat so its a good idea.

My VF52 spools at 3,700 on Cal91, ~3,400 on E85 and there is a WORLD of difference between how the car feel on these two fuels - believe me - you WANT fast spool, 4,000 is okay for highway driving but will feel lethargic in the city - there you want ~3,500.

[acumenhokie]

Bottom mount pwns all. I reach peak tq by 3250rpms.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=154011&d=1370635957

[KGB]

acumenhokie, whats your setup & mods?

[Hops]

Pwns? 5th gens.

 

This thread has gone way off topic. Let's keep it on track.