KGB Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Please see http://yimisport.com/ for picts and dyno graph. Comparing to previously posted EFR 6258 results by Yimi using Manual transmission STI, my dyno shows 18% less whp and 20% less w-torque. Some of it is lost to my Automatic but its hard to believe that my 5EAT consumes THIS much power & torque! And, if anything, I got better (than the baseline STI's) supporting Mods... It also appears to spools up ~450rpm slower than a similar Manual setup... (this was true also on my VF52 setup - must be the 5EAT, right?) Any thoughts on how to explain the larger difference in our results? Perhaps Geoff@ FullRace can chime in on that - I was expecting 10% loss due to the Automatic, not 20%... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Also, is the whistling coming from the integrated BPV? Jeff from Perrin performance said this was sometimes an issue, and he drilled out the comp housing to solve that. Any more details on the whistling would be appreciated. Just in case you missed my question. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldsubycz Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Please see http://yimisport.com/ for picts and dyno graph. Comparing to previously posted EFR 6258 results by Yimi using Manual transmission STI, my dyno shows 18% less whp and 20% less w-torque. Some of it is lost to my Automatic but its hard to believe that my 5EAT consumes THIS much power & torque! And, if anything, I got better (than the baseline STI's) supporting Mods... It also appears to spools up ~450rpm slower than a similar Manual setup... (this was true also on my VF52 setup - must be the 5EAT, right?) Any thoughts on how to explain the larger difference in our results? Perhaps Geoff@ FullRace can chime in on that - I was expecting 10% loss due to the Automatic, not 20%... Could some of this be attributed to our cars having single AVCS where as the STI (at least the '08+) having dual AVCS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 Could some of this be attributed to our cars having single AVCS where as the STI (at least the '08+) having dual AVCS? About 300 rpm worth, yes. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Thank you LBGT, To answer your question - yes, I can hear my Blow Off Valve releasing pressure (with a "wooosh" sound,) but that is not the whistling sound I am talking about - mine comes from elsewhere and is persistent starting at 1/4 throttle and increasing in amplitude (and annoyance) to ~3/5 throttle, thereafter it abruptly disappears - I do not hear it at full throttle. This is as if something is slowly opening, reaching a peak sound and then, when open all the way, the sound disappears... I think is might be due to a butterfly valve in the intake side...? The sound is more pronounced from the passenger seat... Regarding the AVCS and their affect on spool & hp/tq - can I please ask you to elaborate and also if it might be possible to upgrade my 06 car to 08 2X-AVCS specs? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 Thank you LBGT, To answer your question - yes, I can hear my Blow Off Valve releasing pressure (with a "wooosh" sound,) but that is not the whistling sound I am talking about - mine comes from elsewhere and is persistent starting at 1/4 throttle and increasing in amplitude (and annoyance) to ~3/5 throttle, thereafter it abruptly disappears - I do not hear it at full throttle. This is as if something is slowly opening, reaching a peak sound and then, when open all the way, the sound disappears... I think is might be due to abutterfly valve in the intake side....? The sound is more pronounced from the passenger seat... Regarding the AVCS and their affect on spool & hp/tq - can I please ask you to elaborate and also if it might be possible to upgrade my 06 car to 08 2X-AVCS specs? Thanks! 08+ STI has variable valve timing on the exhaust and intake side. Your car just has it on the intake side. While technically possible to retro-fit into your car it would be cost prohibited. (new ECU, wiring, cylinder heads, other hard-ware; I guess that it would cost about $7000) Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 LBGT - AVCS on the 06 is Intake side. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 LBGT - AVCS on the 06 is Intake side. Sorry. I meant to say only intake. Fixed. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Just to clarify, you guys think that I am leaving at least 10% of whp & tq, as well as at least 300-400rpm in spool-up time to lacking the variable valve control on the exhaust side of my non STI engine? I wish I new this before - when I had rebuilt the engine I could have done an STI swap... One problem with this might be that the STI engine's ECU might not be able to communicate to my 5EAT TCU as it may not have been designed for that - what do you think? -I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Its the trans. The cams/heads dont make that much of a difference. If you had the car on a Mustang dyno you could calibrate the parasitic loss on the dyno and compare to a MT. You would be amazed at what a POS slush box the 5EAT is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Thanks M-Sprank, Agreed, our 5EAT is an outdated POS but, I find it hard to believe that it accounts for the whole 20% difference in whp & trq and 400rpm spool-up time, given superior supporting mods relative to a stock STI, both tuned by the same tuner. MY guess is that the 5EAT dissipated ~10% of my whp, don't know how to account for the rest of the difference... I tentatively plan to up the stall speed of my torque converter when I'll be rebuilding my 5EAT in the near future - any ideas what the OEM stall speed and what would be a reasonable upgrade? (my guess is ~3,200-3,600 OEM stall speed and I was thinking to upgrade to ~4,000rpm - what do you all think - I know some of you have done it - need help, please, thanks!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 I don't know of anyone who has done a dual AVCS swap to a Suby that originally came with single AVCS. I am sure it is very possible, but if it were feasible (mostly $$) then I imagine we would see it more. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 What temp was the STI run done at? What temp was your run done at? What was the ambient pressure and humidity difference between the two runs? Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuuusaa Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Curious man aren't you leaving so much more on the table with running stock mufflers? I know your going for the sleeper theme but just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 It is difficult to use dyno pulls from different cars on different days (even on the same dyno) as a comparison. Every car and motor is different. Atmospheric conditions play a role, fuel plays a role (not all fuels are the same even if the octane "rating" is the same), operator of dyno plays a role, calibration of dyno plays a role, the fact that you were measuring power at the hubs, not at the wheels makes a difference, etc. Dont get caught up in it. Trap speed says more about power than the numbers do. I would estimate the difference between my own 08 SpecB and 08 5EAT is between 15-20% (on my Mustang dyno) if the cars had equivalent mods. I have had stock 5EAT's make 180-185whp on my dyno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Regarding the choice of keeping the stock mufflers - these are, by my estimates, not a significant restriction for my relatively small 44lb turbo and my system is already 3" all the way from the Turbo to the mufflers, and there are two of these... Also, Yimi & I could not identify aftermarket mufflers that will keep the car quiet - I am open to suggestions from anybody who has had first hand experience with higher flow quiet mufflers for our Subs. Perhaps an OEM muffle from another manufacturer...? My DP, MidPipe and the Y-Pipes are all quality 3" so I suspect that the stock mufflers cost me maybe 5-10hp, no more. Of course if I had a 60+lb turbo then this would be more of an issue... M-Sprank, agreed on the ~180hp for stock 5EAT numbers - Mike @ GST gets similar values. Now, the reason for my skepticism that our 5EAT is even capable of dissipating more then 10% whp is that if it were, for example, to dissipate, say, 20%, it would just boil & blow up as it does not have the cooling capacity to remove this much heat. I think that actually the value lost to the 5EAT is somewhere in the ~7%, the rest is lost due to other causes unknown TBD... Paul @ Yimi did all the tunes on the sam dyno, same E85 fuel, same calibration - the main diff is in the motor, I suspect... Since, after I am going to eventually rebuilt my transmission, I tentatively plan to upgrade to a EFR 7164, that would be a good opportunity to address any other potential whp sinks - I am open to suggestions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 The dual AVCS for the most part only helps with low-end power, anything above 3500 rpm and it is pretty much a wash. Look at the WRX with a VF52 vs an 08+ STI, both stage2, they are both very close to each other. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Yeah, no quiet aftermarket mufflers, and for sure not for a wagon. Prodrives I run are perhaps quietest out there, yet they drone enough to be unacceptable on highway for me (and that's with EL headers). I welded a Magnaflow muffler in place of the resonator on Perrin's mid/y. Several other folks went that route, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 The dual AVCS for the most part only helps with low-end power, anything above 3500 rpm and it is pretty much a wash. Look at the WRX with a VF52 vs an 08+ STI, both stage2, they are both very close to each other. I disagree. While I don't have your setup (not even close anymore) on my '11 STi I found top end power by judicious advance of the exhaust cam toward 7k, and as well as a similar approach to extending the intake advance to 6k. I'm not the only one to note this. But it took a long time to work out. The degree of advance, and the advance slope are what confuses. Everyone seems to think in bigger, rather than lesser terms, and that less couldn't be better... but I found otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 I disagree. While I don't have your setup (not even close anymore) on my '11 STi I found top end power by judicious advance of the exhaust cam toward 7k, and as well as a similar approach to extending the intake advance to 6k. I'm not the only one to note this. But it took a long time to work out. The degree of advance, and the advance slope are what confuses. Everyone seems to think in bigger, rather than lesser terms, and that less couldn't be better... but I found otherwise. I actually agree with you, but didn't want to make a long post out of it. At anyrate. IME the biggest difference with the dual AVCS is the better boost threshold. I do agree that top-end in some set-ups can be helped a little bit, but not by a lot. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Hey 5EAT owners out there - have any of you encountered hesitation/difficulty in up-shifting at WOT? What might be the cause and the cure? Mine was doing okay before, (I got a HexMods VB upgrade,) but now, with a (~200rpm) higher stall TC, it had difficulty up-shifting at WOT, okay at ~70%T. This issue is most pronounced at 4-5 change, but I have encountered it at lower gears as well. I have increased the red-line to >7K (mine is a built motor.) Currently debating to upgrade from my EFR 6258 to a new larger EFR 7163 (which is why I "upgraded" to the higher stall TC.) Anybody wants to chime in with mitigation ideas as well as comments on the upgrade (go/no-go for 7163)? (I have not plans to race the car, just have an awesome DD.) Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rester5350 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Is this on the new trans? You might want to pm throttlehappy and see if he can tune it out of the tcm. You still have my vote for the bigger snail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I wish there was somebody who can tune the TCU - if we could adjust the TCU settings controlling shifting at WOT that would solve the problem of the transmission trying to "learn" how to deal with my "high" stall TC. Otherwise the new tranny is great - (the car) feels stronger than on the "old" transmission - 55-XXX+ mph passing is EFFORTLESS, even at partial throttle when up-shifting is not an issue - I am happy. It might be that our TCU just can't handle the combination of high stall TC AND a high revving turbo such as the EFRs which pull and pull all the way past red-line, not like the VFs... Perhpas we'll find a soln in a VB mod... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 ...the cause of hesitation & delay to up-shift may be rooted in the disparity between the (TCU) expected car speed in MPH, and a corresponding RPM - there maybe a reason to believe that the TCU directs the 5EAT to execute the up-shift upon reaching a pre-programed combination of speed (mph) and rpm values for each gear... in my car's case, it is reasonable to assume that my high stall TC will slip more under WOT conditions, right? If so, then my car will be moving measurable slower (than OEM) for a given RPM, and more so under WOT, right? The result is that the TCU confused - it tels the 5EAT to initiate the disconnect of the previous gear, but then takes it time to wait until both the mph & rpm conditions match its anticipated pre-programed mpr & rpm values to re-engage the next gear up, which in my case may take a long time, given the slip inherent to my high stall TC. If this is the case, and if we cannot modify the shift conditions which maybe hard-wired into the TCU, What else can I try? how about we instead try to "cheat the car into thinking that it is moving Faster than it actually is so that TCU will direct the 5EAT to shift, right? Or, that the rpm is Lower than it actually is, will this help...? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Quick update: Transmission troubles solved; tranny was perfect but there was a TC issue, and later a damaged speed sensor - now it feels solid & tight, much better & faster than the OEM so, the car is ready for the EFR 7163 which is next To fund this build, I got many good parts from previous builds up for sale, details soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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