Hanger Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 ○ ○ ○ Instagram: itshangertime :spin: ○ ○ ○ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toreadorranger Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Totally agree. For fans of WRX/STI performance, this is total fail. Even 20% lighter than the STI, with maybe 180-190 hp (optimistic here!), it'll be slower than many grocery getters.. I don't think they'll out-Miata the Miata - at least not on their first try.. Genesis Coupe may go to 270hp base (speculation), but even the current 200hp base turbo is easily upgradeable.. If it's just the looks, I'd take the Toyota over the Subaru - because there are at least 10x the number of Toyota dealers around compared to Subaru dealers for service.. I don't understand why people have so much trouble with this. When was the last time the base model car had everything you wanted? I'd be willing to bet that an upgraded version of the Subaru will be out 6months to a year after the base. It would be no different then any other car that has an optional engine or package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julikop Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 ...sorry ...just found out today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I don't understand why people have so much trouble with this. When was the last time the base model car had everything you wanted? I'd be willing to bet that an upgraded version of the Subaru will be out 6months to a year after the base. It would be no different then any other car that has an optional engine or package. Usually, when someone rolls out a car, they say: "Here is the list of engines that will be available: ...". In this case, they have ONLY mentioned a 2.0L NA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julikop Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I don't understand why people have so much trouble with this. When was the last time the base model car had everything you wanted? I'd be willing to bet that an upgraded version of the Subaru will be out 6months to a year after the base. It would be no different then any other car that has an optional engine or package. I don't think most of the people reading this thread have an issue with the fact that the base model may not have all the bells and whistles or be turbocharged or anything, but the fact that it doesn't have all wheel drive STANDARD is quite a big issue, especially that Subaru's niche marketing campaign has usually been standard all wheel drive throughout their lineup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envy Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Usually, when someone rolls out a car, they say: "Here is the list of engines that will be available: ...". In this case, they have ONLY mentioned a 2.0L NA. but think of the aftermarket turbo companies that will benefit with this being N/A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 The real problem here is that Subaru is heavily invested in the STi as their flagship performance car. Once they enter in to this mindset, they can't fathom producing a car that could beat any of it's numbers. This car will be smaller and lighter which gives it a better performance potential starting point out of the gates. Look at the Forester XT. When they released it they just fixed the numbers so the WRX would look better on paper. When they hit the street, and dyno numbers started coming back, the FXT was quite the competition for the WRX. So SubaruUSA decided that you really don't need a Manual Transmission in your FXT anymore, in essence hamstringing the performance by only offering the more parasitic automatic transmission in the FXT. As for the engine, 2.0L gives them one less production variable, as that's what's going to be sold in Japan. Make then all the same and make them cheaper, right out of the toyota playbook. Also the 2.0L has a better head gasket history than the 2.5L and toyota might be hedging some bets here with all the recall hassles they have had of late. All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRed905 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Subaru of America put out this link earlier today on Facebook. I was wondering what the forums had to say...Is this going to be a complete bust, or a homerun? Personally, I think it is going to surprise all of us with strong sales--Call it a hunch:) Here's a link to the article... http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2011/03/subaru-“clears”-the-air-about-new-boxer-sports-car/ And a Picture... http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc514/HeubieSubie/Subaru-Boxer-Concept-300x200.jpg January B. januaryb@hmtrs.com Nikole M. nikolem@hmtrs.com Internet Forum Directors @ Heuberger Motors forumquotes@hmtrs.com http://www.hmtrs.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gire Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Thanks for the new article! I'll merge this thread with the massive Toyobaru frankenCar thread we already have. I for one am looking forward to this car hitting the streets! Subaru and Toyota both need a 21st century Celica / MR2 in the market. If I was 10 years younger it would likely be my next car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toreadorranger Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I don't think most of the people reading this thread have an issue with the fact that the base model may not have all the bells and whistles or be turbocharged or anything, but the fact that it doesn't have all wheel drive STANDARD is quite a big issue, especially that Subaru's niche marketing campaign has usually been standard all wheel drive throughout their lineup... You would ruin the very idea of this car with awd. They are trying to make a light, fun coupe. Awd would require more weight and the engine to be higher and forward. The advantage of the rwd and boxer motor make this car great. You would mess with the driving dynamics of the car, I for one am glad that its rwd. I cant wait to see what they can do. The real problem here is that Subaru is heavily invested in the STi as their flagship performance car. Once they enter in to this mindset, they can't fathom producing a car that could beat any of it's numbers. This car will be smaller and lighter which gives it a better performance potential starting point out of the gates. Look at the Forester XT. When they released it they just fixed the numbers so the WRX would look better on paper. When they hit the street, and dyno numbers started coming back, the FXT was quite the competition for the WRX. So SubaruUSA decided that you really don't need a Manual Transmission in your FXT anymore, in essence hamstringing the performance by only offering the more parasitic automatic transmission in the FXT. As for the engine, 2.0L gives them one less production variable, as that's what's going to be sold in Japan. Make then all the same and make them cheaper, right out of the toyota playbook. Also the 2.0L has a better head gasket history than the 2.5L and toyota might be hedging some bets here with all the recall hassles they have had of late. I doubt a STI FT86 would mess with sales of the STI overall. They are in 2 completely different classes. 4 door sport sedans with awd dont compete with 2 dr coupes with rwd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110302/GENEVA/110309977 Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I'll take it when then put at least an H6 in there. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envy Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 "If you could forgive us for anything," he said, "it would be this car." sums it all up, Subaru USA knew the hardcore AWD turbo enthusiasts would be pissed.. but lets forgive, and see what its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 It would have been much more interesting if it were a rear-engine turbo 4 or H6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gire Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 ^^^^ Right. that will be the day. Subaru designs a Porsche fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 It would have been much more interesting if it were a mid-engine turbo 4 or H6. Fixed that for you. With no current MR2 it seemed like a natural... All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 ^^^^ Right. that will be the day. Subaru designs a Porsche fighter. Hey, Porsche's making a flat-4 turbo. All's fair! Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faded-a-fool Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 More pics of the FT86 concept II below. Mods, please move if this is in the wrong thread. http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11q1/toyota_ft-86_ii_concept-auto_shows/gallery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005hondakilla Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 i plan on copywriting my logo on my grill "SUBRA" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 More pics of the FT86 concept II below. Mods, please move if this is in the wrong thread. http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11q1/toyota_ft-86_ii_concept-auto_shows/gallery Too bad that's just the concept. I love cars that look like they'd scare children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toreadorranger Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Too bad that's just the concept. I love cars that look like they'd scare children. Toyota said that is closer to the production car then the version 1 concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Toyota said that is closer to the production car then the version 1 concept. If the production car looks like that, there might just be a Toyota in my future. That is just plain mean looking. But then... There's that Subaru-powered Factory Five Racing roadster coming up too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I don't think they'll out-Miata the Miata - at least not on their first try... Subaru can out miata a miata with one one attribute, torque. Just copy as much of the formula as you can and stay true to the basic principles. It may be hard for them to get the turn radius in a similar size package, but with a little tweaking here and there it's possible. Trust me a 180 whp/180wt 2400 lbs coupe with 50/50 weight dist will spank a lgt on a road course. All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 It's not going to be 50/50 - I believe a Toyota engineer said something like 53/47 f/r - that's better for drifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 ^^I'd rather have a planted car that'll break free when I want it than a tail-happy drifter. The miata fighter is an awesome idea...but hey, to each his own. I've never been drifting, but it looks like one hell of a crazy time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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