Racer X (itsme) FMIC install

[08Legacy08]

Just snoop tested system, major leak at BOV and minor at the goose neck.

[finse]

Paper gasket + oem gasket sealed well.

[joeleodee]

You're not the last

 

I got one of the extras that was ordered as part of GB #1. I'll be starting the install tomorrow

 

Technically, you were not even a part of GB #1, you were just an extra. .

 

Still haven't had the time to work on that bumper fitment. I haven't had a day off of work since I installed it nearly 3 weeks ago. I will update with pics when I do with my new camera.

 

BTW, Felpro gasket material is working great on the BOV flange for me.

[LGTspecB1657615261]

I am confused as to why the OEM O-ring gasket is not sufficient enough.

 

I am hearing "moaning" / whistling under load around 0 relative pressure... I don't even have to get into boost. I am guessing its still one of the couplers. I will have to pull the bumper and take a look at those.

[08Legacy08]

mix dawn dish soap (a generous amount) with some water - remove bubbles and then dribble a TINY bit on the connections while someone revvs the engine up to 3500rpm. It doesn't take much. You'll see where your leaks are when you see the bubbles. This method allows you to see leaks a lot easier.This is what I did and I found my leaks really quick. Within 10 seconds I found my tiny leak. I found my big leak IMMEDIATELY. Do not fret - this will not hurt your motor or anything like that. Use a very small amount.

[08Legacy08]

I am confused as to why the OEM O-ring gasket is not sufficient enough.

 

Just look at the tiny thin o-ring/gasket. Picture that squished up against the flat smooth surface of the IC flange. That is the ONLY thing keeping pressure from escaping. Also, the gasket is not designed to be used in this manner. It should have a small groove that it sits in on the IC pipe (just like factory top mount).Some people will not have a problem - some will. Its as simple as that. I pulled mine last night and the gasket was not torn or mis-shaped but it was contributing to my boost leak. So it doesn't mean the gasket/o-ring is bad and needs replaced. I had an aircraft engine engineer weigh in on this too - he agrees, just use a flat gasket.

[m sprank]

You can not tell an o-ring condition by sight. All you can see is a tear. An o-ring, like all gaskets, is considered a "soft" part. It is industry standard that ALL "soft" parts have a single use life span. That means that they are only used ONCE. If the o-ring or gasket is un-torqued or removed it is replaced. This is why invoices go up sometimes. Is it "necessary", well we have all reused a gasket and been fine. But, realize that if it leaks, rather than fool around why not try and replace it first. Plenty of o-rings are used in designs where there is a groove on 1 surface only.

 

No offense to the engineer, but in the field we have all kinds of sayings for the guys who think up and conceptualize the s*** we make a reality. Engineers live in a world of CAD drawings, they don't get bloody knuckles.

[08Legacy08]

I understand "industry standard." However, you can get an idea of the gaskets condition by looking at its plyability, inspecting for tears and/or impressions and considering its application, exposure to solvents etc. Is it a perfect science -no, But neither is installing this FMIC. I agree that there are plenty of "designs" where there is a groove in only one surface but it was designed and tested for that application. This was not and is contrary to original design.At the end of the day it doesn't really matter does it? Bottom line, if you want to re-use or buy a new $8 gasket - all the power to ya. If you want to use a flat gasket and you think it offers you added security - you can do that too.

 

Sprank, I want to recognize your contribution to these forums as a extremely knowledgable in the area of LGTs , a trailblazer of sort and I think we've all been influenced in some way by your contribution to the forum. I know I have. I'm not trying to challenge you, I'm just reflecting on my own 20 years of automotive experience - which hasn't done me too wrong in the past.

[LGTspecB1657615261]

mix dawn dish soap (a generous amount) with some water - remove bubbles and then dribble a TINY bit on the connections while someone revvs the engine up to 3500rpm. It doesn't take much. You'll see where your leaks are when you see the bubbles. This method allows you to see leaks a lot easier.This is what I did and I found my leaks really quick. Within 10 seconds I found my tiny leak. I found my big leak IMMEDIATELY. Do not fret - this will not hurt your motor or anything like that. Use a very small amount.

Thanks, though, I would rather apply pressure manually to the IC pipes so I know they hold a certain pressure.

 

I have also tried injector cleaner at the connections while idling, but the leaks never sucked it in. My leaks only develop under load / boost, so I will have to use pressure and soap. Perhaps just revving the engine will create bubbles, but I think I will need a little more pressure than what that will create.

[m sprank]

I understand "industry standard." However, you can get an idea of the gaskets condition by looking at its plyability, inspecting for tears and/or impressions and considering its application, exposure to solvents etc. Is it a perfect science -no, But neither is installing this FMIC. I agree that there are plenty of "designs" where there is a groove in only one surface but it was designed and tested for that application. This was not and is contrary to original design.At the end of the day it doesn't really matter does it? Bottom line, if you want to re-use or buy a new $8 gasket - all the power to ya. If you want to use a flat gasket and you think it offers you added security - you can do that too.

 

Sprank, I want to recognize your contribution to these forums as a extremely knowledgable in the area of LGTs , a trailblazer of sort and I think we've all been influenced in some way by your contribution to the forum. I know I have. I'm not trying to challenge you, I'm just reflecting on my own 20 years of automotive experience - which hasn't done me too wrong in the past.

 

No problem. I completely understand re-using o-rings. They tend to hold up better than flat gaskets.

 

I would imagine that a new o-ring with a little vacuum grease applied would do the trick.

 

Nothing wrong with a flat gasket either. The OEM BPV has a plastic base so it should actually "bite" into the gasket and probably seal very tightly.

 

Just be sure to use washers to spread the force and be aware of the "soft" nature of the aluminum BPV flange.

 

I keep rolls of different gasket paper on the shelf for just these sorts of situations. I am not a fan of silicone, although on CBE's it is sometimes needed.

 

Good luck with the leak, I am sure you will get it squared away shortly.

 

Just a word of advice to all, if you are having problems with a used gasket or o-ring, just try a new one. Might cost $10, but the frustration it saves is worth it.

 

If you are planning mods, maybe try to be proactive and order some gaskets and hardware for the parts you are going to remove before the install begins. I hate having to stop go get something or wait for it to arrive slowing my progress. Always try to be prepared. I guess the Boy Scouts actualy sank in a little, huh?

[LosAngelesLGT]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSwjuz_-yao]YouTube- Tom Lehrer- Be Prepared[/ame]

[08Legacy08]

No problem. I completely understand re-using o-rings. They tend to hold up better than flat gaskets.

 

I would imagine that a new o-ring with a little vacuum grease applied would do the trick.

 

Nothing wrong with a flat gasket either. The OEM BPV has a plastic base so it should actually "bite" into the gasket and probably seal very tightly.

 

Just be sure to use washers to spread the force and be aware of the "soft" nature of the aluminum BPV flange.

 

I keep rolls of different gasket paper on the shelf for just these sorts of situations. I am not a fan of silicone, although on CBE's it is sometimes needed.

 

Good luck with the leak, I am sure you will get it squared away shortly.

 

Just a word of advice to all, if you are having problems with a used gasket or o-ring, just try a new one. Might cost $10, but the frustration it saves is worth it.

 

If you are planning mods, maybe try to be proactive and order some gaskets and hardware for the parts you are going to remove before the install begins. I hate having to stop go get something or wait for it to arrive slowing my progress. Always try to be prepared. I guess the Boy Scouts actualy sank in a little, huh?

 

Very good advice. Thanks!!

[08Legacy08]

Ok - no more boost leaks! Finally!!

[LGTspecB1657615261]

I was surprised how slippery the BOV surface was when I took the BOV off... I need to probably add a gasket there.

[08Legacy08]

Okay, this is not FMIC related.... I think.... but does anyone else's car sound like just as the turbo begins to boost, air is being depressurized from the system? As RPM goes up, so does the depressurization sound? This was going on before the FMIC install but the sound is louder now. Also, car takes WAY too long to boost.

 

I confirmed, I don't have any FMIC leaks... Ideas? No tune at all yet.

[m sprank]

Need to tune. Not sure about the sound. Lots of new noises with a FMIC.

 

Your wgdc needs to be adjusted as well as maybe boost target. Some other fine adjustments too. To take advantage of a FMIC you need to tune. More pipe volume, pressure differences, etc.

[08Legacy08]

m sprank, that's what I was thinking. I'm noticing that nearly everybody who bought this kit is tuned for at least "stage 1."

 

Time to get Infamous involved. Thanks man.

[m sprank]

No worries. If I you have questions, or I can help shoot me a PM. Infamous has plenty of experience with this FMIC already. He can help for sure.

[LGTspecB1657615261]

I have to cut off my tow hooks and make a bracket to hold the cold pipe away from the brake reservoir. The saga continues.

 

Yes I know sprankles you did not have to do that with any of yours. My car just hates me.

 

I did find that foaming hand soap is great for finding leaks. Just use the liquid. I had my wife rev the engine and I found leaks at both of my core connections and my TB connection. And I STILL have a boost leak. I will have to do a pressure test to find this one. My core connections DO NOT line up well. My cold pipe is inside the tow hook, but my hot pipe is directly under the tow hook. My hot pipe does not line up well with the core at all and the tow hook is right in the way. Its like my core is too long or something. If my core was 1" shorter it would probably work.

 

My cold pipe near the TB is resting hardcore on the brake booster and rattling like you would not believe. I pushed it all the way into the TB coupler like people said too. Plain and simple, without a bracket its going to hit. No way around it.

 

This is getting annoying.

 

EDIT: This is what I am talking about. My hot pipe is almost fully under this tow hook (unlike the picture below). I cannot get it inside the tow hook, the pipe is actually hitting the core inlet so it cannot go towards the center of the car anymore.

 

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u156/itsmebryan/P1060255.jpg

 

I would also like to add that my BOV does not line up this well.... my recirc pipe has a hard turn / kink in it. Much worse fitment than the picture below:

 

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u156/itsmebryan/P1060282.jpg

 

Whoever made the pipes is inconsistent. China, Taiwan, whoever.

[08Legacy08]

Recirc pipe needs to be un bolted from the engine... the bolt is a little off center toward the passenger side. This may sound silly but did you un bolt it?Also, where are you located? Can you send pics? I want to help.

[m sprank]

The pipes should be on the inside of the tow hooks. Both pipes at the core. The core is too far to the passenger side if the pipe is under the hook. This might be what is causing you to hit the master cylinder as well. Angle of the pipe where it meets by the battery.

 

If you are anywhere in So Cal I can come to you and assist. I a willing to drive a couple hundred miles. Ask around I do it routinely for members. If you are not shoot me a PM with an email address. We can send pix and I can help. If I can see it, I can fix it.

 

Unless there is something wrong with your car or pipes. If we can determine that a pipe is mis-bent and somehow got past QC, I am sure Bryan will be happy to replace it.

[LGTspecB1657615261]

The pipes hit the core, I physically cannot get them inside the tow hook. I will keep trying. I am not getting around the master cylinder issue, my cold pipe is correct based on the pictures. I will make a bracket to support that pipe so the TB coupler is not the only thing supporting it. That will make me feel better anyway.

 

I appreciate the help and support.

 

Yes, I un-bolted the recirc hose.

 

Thanks guys!

[finse]

The pipes hit the core, I physically cannot get them inside the tow hook. I will keep trying. I am not getting around the master cylinder issue, my cold pipe is correct based on the pictures. I will make a bracket to support that pipe so the TB coupler is not the only thing supporting it. That will make me feel better anyway.

 

I appreciate the help and support.

 

Yes, I un-bolted the recirc hose.

 

Thanks guys!

 

Regarding the recirc hose, mine is also unbolted but there is still a bit of a kink in it. It's does not seem to be hampering performance. I can get you a picture if you would like to see it.

[m sprank]

I understand the pipes hit the core. But it might be how the pipes are coming down from the engine bay and wrapping under. Slight changes in rotation make pipe ends move inches.

 

I am thinking that everything needs to be disconnected and the inlet and outlet pipes from the core need adjusting. This could move everything. I start from the core and work my way back. Not from the engine forward. With the core centered the pipes line up perfect. I even got the core within 1/2" centered on a car that took a major front end collision and was repaired. Even the radiator was not centered.

 

If you are not local I can still help through pix. I am more than willing to assist.

[grimsleeper]

fwiw there are several fitment issues with this kit, and I am not alone on this so I'm not ready to chalk it up to production variances. I'm just going to throw it out there and go down the list of areas people will want to watch over time, starting at the hot side. This is on an '05, I can't speak for '07+.

 

2nd hotside pipe after turbo connection (STi config): tried it in both orientations, it is angled wrong and does not allow a flush connection to be made between the beaded lips. It also affects the alignment with the compressor outlet and makes the hotside piping a bit looser than it was with the lgt flange. As a result this needs to be retightened periodically, there have been several mornings where I have started the car and found condensation forming at the outer edge of the coupler.

 

Passenger side core connection: the pipe takes a sharp bend before connecting to the core, which puts the outer clamp at an angle. Can be reduced by cutting about *EDIT .25" off the coupler so it does not wrap around the bend. This will depend on how far you have the pipe pushed into the coupler.

 

Driver's side core pipe: depending on your setup there could be a couple issues with this section. The battery clearance issue has been beat to death, but of more concern is the lower timing cover bolt. When searching for leaks, a friend noticed that the bolt head had sawed a very deep gouge in the pipe and was a thin layer away from being a hole. I removed the pipe and had it welded, but I have no doubt that had I left it on there would have been a .5" wide hole in the pipe within weeks, or possibly days if I was driving like a complete a-hole:lol:. Rather than put a grommet in between (which would throw off the rest of the alignment) I chose to remove the bolt.

 

TB pipe: in order to have correct alignment with the TB, this section needs to be wedged into the FPR cover which is also cutting into the pipe. Though not as drastic as the previous section, it should still be watched. I would recommend padding this contact with a piece of rubber or silicone. Also as mentioned the angle of the bov flange forces the return hose to kink. In addition to unbolting it from the manifold I had to temporarily unplug a connector so it could come more toward the firewall. This is going to largely depend on the design of your BOV, with mine the kink is bad enough that it could cause stress cracks at some point.

 

I am not trying to s^&t on this kit, I appreciate what Bryan did and give him credit for addressing issues that other fmic kits do not, but there are trouble areas that need to be watched and corrected, especially over time.

 

It was mentioned by someone that this kit does not need mounting brackets because it's secured in place by design. This may be true while the car is parked, but it is being held in place as a result of tight fitment, and many of the surfaces keeping it in place are acting as saws when the car is in motion - especially if you're still on stock engine mounts. I ended up mounting an L-bracket from the core to the radiator support to avoid vertical play, and am considering one somewhere on the cold side to keep it from cutting against the timing and fpr covers. If running an STi turbo I'd also fab one up somewhere on the hot side.

 

I've seen these same issues on other LGT's that had this kit professionally installed, so I'm pretty confident they are not installer errors, but if there's something that stands out as being completely wrong I'm always open to suggestions.

 

On a better note, this kit does do what it's supposed to do. I hold 23psi tapering down to 20@redline and I don't believe a poor quality fmic kit would be able to achieve that. Just be sure to keep an eye on it once in a while and you should be fine.