Found lots of great clutch replacement info here, but still need advice...

[JoeFromPA]

Thanks Rao. I think I personally (who spends monoey on stuff like synthetic oils and oil analyses which will most likely never benefit me in any tangible way)....well, I'll buy the TSK3 kit. In the hope that in their design, they addressed the propensity for the grease to "dry up" so quickly on the stock unit. As well as offering trans shaft protection and supposedly smoother operation of the bearing (by connecting it to the fork).

 

Whether or not I'd ever see a tangible benefit from it versus doing another stock unit.....don't know

 

Joe

[rao]

You don't have to justify what you do to your cer to me

 

Have you looked into the suspension bolts

 

Let's make a list of all of the parts on a Legacy GT that are no good:

 

1. Pistons

2. Oil pickup

3. Turbo

4. Sway bars

5 end links

6. Brake pads

7. Shocks

8. Springs

9. Transmission

10. TOB

11. PCV system (which is why you NEED a catch can)

12. Turbo inlet tube

13. Intake system

14. Banjo bolt filter

 

thats all that I ahve time for now

[JoeFromPA]

Why is the transmission no good? I mean, the clutch is crappy as is the TOB, and the gear ratios aren't that good, and the shift quality is pretty poor....but the trans itself is decent

 

And I thought the airbox part of the intake system was well designed

 

Otherwise....yes.

[whitetiger]

You don't have to justify what you do to your cer to me

 

Have you looked into the suspension bolts

 

Let's make a list of all of the parts on a Legacy GT that are no good:

 

1. Pistons

2. Oil pickup

3. Turbo

4. Sway bars

5 end links

6. Brake pads

7. Shocks

8. Springs

9. Transmission

10. TOB

11. PCV system (which is why you NEED a catch can)

12. Turbo inlet tube

13. Intake system

14. Banjo bolt filter

 

thats all that I ahve time for now

 

man, the LGT is a really crappy car. Gonna go sell mine.......

[StoplightAssassin]

damn I wish I knew that before I bought mine

 

don't forget to add

15. paint

16. tires

17. windshield

18. resale value

 

 

lol

[rao]

Good point - I had forgotten some of those

[JoeFromPA]

Hey, this is what makes a 4 year old Legacy GT such a fantastic value

 

Oh wait, I brought brand new....damn....

[SubyShop.com]

From my extensive reading here re: aftermarket clutch replacement options, it sounds like the ACT clutch kit + WRX SM flywheel + TSK3 kit has been the route taken by a lot of you guys who've modded your rides with Stage I, II or III upgrades.

 

For me, I've got a bone-stock 2005 OB XT used as a daily driver. Although I haven't noticed any slippage, after 72k of "babied" driving, I'm **thinking** it's my TOB which is starting to rattle when I press "in" the clutch. So, I wanna' be proactive in dealing with it...and hopefully save myself some $$$ in the process since I just lost my job in December.

 

My clutch engages/disengages fine, I haven't noticed any slippage or any ill behaviors which would make me think my stock flywheel is damaged, but I REFUSE to go with the stock clutch again because it blows. The main criteria I have are:

 

-increase in longevity

-improved in clutch engagement "feel"

-cost

 

A couple questions I haven't been able to find answers to:

 

1.) Are there any good aftermarket clutch options which work with the stock DMFW--or am I better served dropping the coin on the WRX flywheel even if mine isn't messed up?

 

2.) I did see some reference to people switching to the 2007+ Legacy GT SM flywheel and clutch. Is this any better than my stock 2005 setup when it comes to longevity and clutch engagement "feel"? If so, could/should I also add the TSK3 kit--or has the TOB premature wear issue been resolved in the 2007+ clutches?

 

3.) And just to confirm, it sounds like parts for the full ACT clutch kit, the WRX FW and TSK3 kit run around $1000, and installation by a qualified indy should be around $400-$600. Accurate?

 

Thanks, guys....I really appreciate it.

 

Tim G.

 

For you, I would look into a stock 08+ WRX clutch conversion. The pedal feel is better and the clamping force of the OEM pressure plate is at least 20% greater than the LGT. You can get it for a low price and swap out the DMFW for a lighter weight flywheel.

-Franz

[JoeFromPA]

For you, I would look into a stock 08+ WRX clutch conversion. The pedal feel is better and the clamping force of the OEM pressure plate is at least 20% greater than the LGT. You can get it for a low price and swap out the DMFW for a lighter weight flywheel.

-Franz

 

 

Franz,

 

That is info (about the 08 setup) that I have not seen elsewhere on this forum. Thanks for sharing.

 

Joe

[mccorry]

What does an '08 WRX flywheel, clutch, and PP combo go for?

[JoeFromPA]

Couldn't find it exactly, but the OEM 08+ Flywheel is $225 and the same-style OEM PP and clutch is $275. So I'm guessing $500, probably less with a bit of haggling or a deal-time.

[TimGinCentralNJ]

There is absolutely no guaranty or even any reason to assume that the TSK3 will result in longer throw out bearing life. If the TSK3 bearing goes bad than it goes bad.

 

What the TSK does is protect you from damage if the bearing goes really bad - like you keep driving until the bearing literally falls apart or allow you to easily deal with an input shaft snout that has been damaged from the same.

 

BTW, I would filter any advice to include only people who have actually replaced a Legaacy GT clutch (or at least a Subaru one)

 

Of course, you probably should take a sample of your throw out bearing and send it out for analysis and then post the results on www.bobthesubaruthrowoutbearingguy.com

 

Thanks, Rob....

 

I realize there are no guarantees in life, but maybe I misunderstood the purpose of the TSK3 kit; that being to keep the TOB from rattling around in its housing once the adhesive properties of the factory grease broke-down (?). And if the TSK3 kit doesn't at least help prevent premature TOB failure like it was marketed to do, I know a whole lot of board members who're gonna' be pissed about spending that $190+ on it!

 

FWIW, Jeremy @ FredBeansparts.com (who I don't know from Adam..only that he seems well respected here as a knowledgeable guy) also said not to worry about the TSK3 kit...haven't gotten a chance to speak with him about why--but I did find that interesting.

 

Thanks for your feedback,

Tim

[TimGinCentralNJ]

I which case I am not qualified since I only replaced 2 clutches (ACT HDMM x 2; 1 LWFW) on my 69k drive LGT. At 32k and at 68k miles Forgive me Tim; discount my opinion. You are of course right: anything short of 150k miles on an OEM clutch and turbo awd car that has surging tendecies and lots of grip is utter failure.

 

Wow, sorry if I stepped on a nerve.

 

I'm not looking to be "right"; I'm just trying to gain a practical understanding of this topic (given the many opinions I've read here--and given my past experiences on many other non-AWD, non-turbo cars) by asking pointed questions of people who seem to know more than me. I never suggested you don't know what you're talking about...only that I'm not satisfied the the mileage I got out of my TOB in comparison to my clutch, and I've yet to have anyone tell me "pressure plates and TOBs typically have around the same life expectancy". Instead, most everyone keeps talking about "clutch wear" which to me means "pressure place/flywheel" not TOB.

 

I'm sure you realize it's not always easy filtering the facts from the crap, and the relevant from the not relevant...that's all I'm trying to do. Honest.

 

No offense intended, man...

 

Tim

[TimGinCentralNJ]

Thanks Rao. I think I personally (who spends monoey on stuff like synthetic oils and oil analyses which will most likely never benefit me in any tangible way)....well, I'll buy the TSK3 kit. In the hope that in their design, they addressed the propensity for the grease to "dry up" so quickly on the stock unit. As well as offering trans shaft protection and supposedly smoother operation of the bearing (by connecting it to the fork).

 

Whether or not I'd ever see a tangible benefit from it versus doing another stock unit.....don't know

 

Joe

 

So, it's basically just a $145-$200 "insurance policy"....no? If so, I'd buy it too. I just need to speak with Jeremy @ Fred Beans and see why he didn't think I need it. Maybe only because I mentioned I'm on a budget

 

And FWIW, based upon my description of what's happening with my car, Jeremy suggested the following two options for me:

 

If you want to keep it daily driver friendly, here are the options I would suggest ( below $ 1000.00 )

(1) ACT Clutch with WRX Single Mass FW ( No TSK3 )

(2) 07-09 OEM Legacy GT Clutch kit with flywheel

Feel free to give us a call to discuss the options in detail.

 

Jeremy also mentioned that Fred Beans charges $486 for a clutch replacement job on a 2005-2009 Legacy. I usually cringe at the idea of having a dealer do anything this big--but that doesn't sound like a bad price--and I like the idea of "one stop shopping".

 

Tim

[TimGinCentralNJ]

Hey, this is what makes a 4 year old Legacy GT such a fantastic value

 

Oh wait, I brought brand new....damn....

 

I know, Joe...doesn't it just kill you? That and the $28k I paid for my immaculate 2001 7 Series in 2005 which is now worth about $12k.

 

"oh the humanity!!!"

 

Tim

[JoeFromPA]

Tim,

 

I've met Jeremy and been to their shop. They deal with ALOT of heavily modified subarus there, as far as I can tell. Their install rates are posted on the fredbeansparts.com website for a number of things and they can be very reasonable on some things.

 

For instance:

 

Bolt-on turbo</B>: $164.88 (I think that's unheard of from a dealership)

 

and then....

 

Coilovers: $473.65 (includes alignment)

 

[psucaptainkickass]

I am going to go with the 07-09 OEM Clutch kit.

 

Does anyone know if it is a good idea to change out the pilot bearing too? It's only 9-10 bucks...i mean while you're in there....

[rao]

In the Subaru it is in the flywheel which is way easier than if it is in the end of the crankshaft. Change it.

[psucaptainkickass]

Cool...

Any thoughts on the 08 WRX parts mentioned earlier?

 

Would those parts bolt right in? If its the same price...might as well put in better oem parts?

[rao]

Honestly I can't figure out what the hell you guys are talking about everyone wants to make things complicated. You need a non-dual-mass flywheel. The regular flywheels for the 2.5 liter cars are all the same so the pressure plates and clutch disks should all interchange. I would call Fred Beans and ask them if the part numbers rare really different for the WRX and later Legacy parts.

[psucaptainkickass]

LOL...well I have no clue, just trying to sort through things

So there is the fred beans 07-09 Legacy kit. Which comes with:

OEM GT Clutch

OEM GT PP

OEM SM Flywheel (06+ WRX)

OEM GT TOB

 

But SubyShop mentioned something about the 08+ WRX parts since it provides more clamping force on the PP...maybe because the 08+ WRX has a more powerful engine.

 

Therefore, for a stage 2 application would it make sense to go after the 08+ WRX parts if they bolt right in?

 

I guess that is my question, if they bolt right in why the hell not use them?

[rao]

The question is if the 08+ WRX and 07+ Legacy GT parts are the same or different.

[LosAngelesLGT]

No offense LaLGT, but I don't buy it. 72k miles is nothing....especially on a non-modded car which has been driven very gently by someone who's owned over 12 manual trans cars, and has never worn out a clutch yet. Besides, my clutch is fine...it's the TOB which is failing. No excuse for that.

 

I've never run across ANY posts or other information which attributes the premature wearing of these clutches or their TOBs to the fact these cars are AWD. I don't think there is anything else you can attribute it to--only that the Legacy's OEM clutch components suck-a$$

 

I would bet that having "owned 12 manual cars" means you have very little experience with putting year after year of use into a car and that very few, if any, were bought new, and driven for more than 100k mi. More than a few forum members are driving stage 2+ power on OEM clutch and getting similar miles out of their clutch that you did.

 

Maybe you need to learn to drive more smoothly (not an insult) OR not let others drive your car OR buy a 2wd. 4wd powertrains put a more wear on clutch components than 2wd powertrains. Without even thinking about accompanying parts, 4 wheels = twice as much unsprung weight as 2 wheels to move.

 

You are never going to "run across ANY posts or other information which attributes the premature wearing of these clutches or their TOBs to the fact these cars are AWD." because they are not wearing PREMATURELY. They are wearing faster than the exact same clutch might in a 2wd powertrain.

 

As far as the TOB goes, we already know there is an issue. Personally, mine did not look very worn and everything looked fine at 55k miles when I switched clutches. (I don't need to drive smoother - I know I work my cluch a bit and I am perfectly satisfied with 50k mi)

[Ridgeracer]

I know I read on here someone used an 08-09 WRX clutch setup on a LGT and it was a direct fit. He had pics and all. BTW...some ppl on here need to learn how to drive manual. I never have to rev up to 1500rpms to get off the line even if Im on an incline. Maybe 800-900rpms..I have 109K on my stock clutch running stage 3.

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116458

[f1anatic]

Wow, sorry if I stepped on a nerve.

 

I'm sure you realize it's not always easy filtering the facts from the crap, and the relevant from the not relevant...that's all I'm trying to do. Honest.

 

No offense intended, man...

 

Tim

 

 

No worries Tim. We're good.

 

Let me share with you a little more of my experience. I NEVER EVER EVER launch my car, drag race it; take it to the strip, or otherwise abuse it. I drive like a grandma, I consistently get 30 mpg on the highway and 20-22 in mixed driving in Chicago where traffic jams are a nightmare. And if someone does rattle my nerves, I never do it from a stand still meaning I do not rev 4000 rpm and drop the clutch.

 

Yet I have changed 2 clutches. Once at 32k I popped it while stuck in snow. Then, recently, i had my tranny fixed for a synchro and the clutch I had installed in January 2008 (now 34k miles old) had about 20% life left and dangerously little thickness left near one of the bolts that attach the clutch disc itself to the backing.

 

Back in 2008 I put a light weight fly wheel. Now I am quite sure the shop did a piss poor job cause following that I had noise vibration harshness in any possible driving circumstance. And I suspect the LWFW ate my clutch. Meaning - I suspect - giving the way it allows the engine to rev more readily, the way the clutch clamps now makes it wear out faster. Well i may be wrong but anyways...clutch was not going to last me more than another year at most. I replaced just the clutch disc - keeping the rest of the kit the same - and behold now job done properly the car is actually quieter in terms of noise, vibration and harshness...

 

But my feeling is this. I had other goals for the car so i had to get an aftermarket - better - clutch. But if I were to keep it stock, i would not go for anything but stock setup. My first aftermarket clutch was so heavy my left foot hurt...and having a LWFW in bumper-to-bumper traffic was aggravating. It is funtastical when you are tearing up the asphalt...a nuisance any other time.

 

And then the old, time-honored saying: stay stock, stay happy. But it is your car and you do what make you happy.