ssbtech Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 ^ I have the bilstein on my 06 with sti pinks. That's pretty stiff. HDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 ^That's correct. I did not install all of this stuff myself though. It came with the wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tema Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Please elaborate I ordered BTS 5056 kit about two years ago. Rear damping seemed always right from start too soft. Higher frequency was ok but slow travel damping was not on par with front. Wasn't sure if that was just the way it was designed at first. Over the time I became confident that something was wrong. Sent rear shocks to Finnish Bilstein rally specialist for a check. Rear shocks were incorrectly assembled with different parts and internal nut had loosened so over the time shocks would have damaged permanently. After reconditioning and a small increase of slow speed damping rear of the and car feels COMPLETELY different. It's now as it should have been all time. During this process I searched for possibility to custom make equivalent Bilstein rears with matching springs. This is possible! Cost for pair of shocks and springs should stay under 500 EUR Anyone interested? Custom shock absorption settings possible as well Anyone can tell how Bilstein HD rides comparing to BTS? To make custom Bilstein shocks for XT: use same size shock absorber with grooves machined into. Build with appropriate internals to create desired damping behaviour. Spring seats would be different so spring used would be flat ended but with same (or custom) spring rate. This comes from extremely experienced rally car specialist. Problem is that I need to send my shock to be used as a reference. If there is interest then this would be possible in November as my car will stand still for a while during some other work being carried out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Anyone can tell how Bilstein HD rides comparing to BTS? No idea compared to the BTS, but here are the damping specs on the HDs vs the Spec B Bilsteins. If you can find the specs on the BTS then it might give you some sort of idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 To make custom Bilstein shocks for XT: use same size shock absorber with grooves machined into. ^ Are you referring to our stock outback xt shocks (e.g. kyb)? Spring seats would be different so spring used would be flat ended but with same (or custom) spring rate. ^So this means we can no longer use our current OEM springs then if we were to go that route? Also, just to make sure, your XT comes from the US right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tema Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 ^ Are you referring to our stock outback xt shocks (e.g. kyb)? - I'm referring to equivalent type Bilstein shock as in BTS-kit ^So this means we can no longer use our current OEM springs then if we were to go that route? - If OEM spring is same (not flat bottom) type as BTS spring then - it's not possible to use OEM springs. Why would you? I found OEMs way too soft albeit maybe tired original ones. Also, just to make sure, your XT comes from the US right? - Yes, USDM 2005 model Like said I didn't take discussion into details as I do have now great suspension myself. I asked if it was possible to produce an equivalent kit as I'm aware of costs and difficulties regarding alternative options and though that maybe there are interest for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigleben Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Unfortunately (money wise) the BTS kit is exactly what I was looking for as a suspension upgrade. A ±1inch drop without loosing too much if any ground clearance to even out the wheel gap. An alternative option would be great if the price is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 +1 .. Agreed. The BTS kit's rear dampers character (ever-so soft'er to a degree) is not on par with the front BTS kit dampers. I ordered BTS 5056 kit about two years ago. Rear damping seemed always right from start too soft. Higher frequency was ok but slow travel damping was not on par with front. Wasn't sure if that was just the way it was designed at first. Over the time I became confident that something was wrong. Sent rear shocks to Finnish Bilstein rally specialist for a check. Rear shocks were incorrectly assembled with different parts and internal nut had loosened so over the time shocks would have damaged permanently. After reconditioning and a small increase of slow speed damping rear of the and car feels COMPLETELY different. It's now as it should have been all time. During this process I searched for possibility to custom make equivalent Bilstein rears with matching springs. This is possible! Cost for pair of shocks and springs should stay under 500 EUR Anyone interested? Custom shock absorption settings possible as well Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 - I'm referring to equivalent type Bilstein shock as in BTS-kit - If OEM spring is same (not flat bottom) type as BTS spring then - it's not possible to use OEM springs. Why would you? I found OEMs way too soft albeit maybe tired original ones. - Yes, USDM 2005 model Like said I didn't take discussion into details as I do have now great suspension myself. I asked if it was possible to produce an equivalent kit as I'm aware of costs and difficulties regarding alternative options and though that maybe there are interest for this? Basically, what I would like is a set up where I keep my ride height, have a suspension that gives me some confidence when I drive on the road, but also let me have fun on dirt roads, and be able to do some light offroading too. I know it is asking a bit much . The thing is I am an avid mountain biker and have been used to have nice shocks on my bike where I can control, compression, rebound, sag, etc... The ride is amazing and controlled on crazy terrain. And I would love to replicate that for my car. So I have a feeling your rally mechanic friend may be able to build the shocks just the way I would like them to be. Maybe I'll pm you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted October 16, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 16, 2015 Difference is that your mountain bike doesn't weight 3500lbs "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 suuure . But I bet it is possible when you look at this baja cars and stuff. But I know it is lots of $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 suuure . But I bet it is possible when you look at this baja cars and stuff. But I know it is lots of $$$. A fox 40 cost as much as the BtSsm kit.. Edit: as much as the BTS kit. Stupid autocorrect. My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 All, sorry to bring up an "old" subject but, I am about to upgrade the suspension on my 06' OBXT and need to choose between the: BTS5056J or the BTS5088J The former is tried & tested, the later is newer and will lower the car by 30mm. But other than the height, what is the difference between them? I don't mind going lower but I am concerned how much, if any, rougher will the handling-2-ride tradeoff will be? Anybody with 1st or 2nd hand experience? Any other worthy contenders? I use my car as a daily driver, no racing but, it has a 60lb EFR 7163 turbo - 500+hp - lots of fun on an (upgraded) Automatic so I thought that an upgraded suspension is in order, while maintaining the Outback - unique riding characteristics i.e. if I wanted a LegacyGT I would have purchased one... FYI: for the brakes, I'll probably be going with the 328mm 4 piston StopTEch BBK and Porterfield r4s brake pads Thanks in advance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 you are right next to WRX USA, i think he goes to cars and coffee in Cupertino frequently. ping him and meet up. i vote 5088. Try something new. you will be close to LGT height though... jealous of your car. Do you have the stock obxt suspension still? My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 KGB, do you have a link to a build thread at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 A fox 40 cost as much as the BtSsm kit.. Edit: as much as the BTS kit. Stupid autocorrect. . I was going to comment on this... But yeah, I have an (old) Marzocchi 66 ETA 2007 and yeah, when new it cost as much as the BTS kit. But I got it used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 The JDM Bilstein BTS5056J suspension kit drops a USA production MY05-09 Outback XT wagon by 1+ inch or 25mm or so. The BTS was installed more than 7 years ago or 40k miles ago. Nice enough for a daily driver/airport run car. The USA OEM production spring/damper specification is horribal, not at all in keeping with a 250hp/250torque 5sp auto wagon. Don't get me started on Subaru's unconscienceable brake system chioce. What are the details of the newer BTS 5088J suspension kit? Is this a JDM Bilstein kit? Any kit details? A total suspension drop(MY05 Outback XT) of 25mm vs 30mm is insignificant; aesthetically speaking. All, sorry to bring up an "old" subject but, I am about to upgrade the suspension on my 06' OBXT and need to choose between the: BTS5056J or the BTS5088J The former is tried & tested, the later is newer and will lower the car by 30mm. But other than the height, what is the difference between them? I don't mind going lower but I am concerned how much, if any, rougher will the handling-2-ride tradeoff will be? Anybody with 1st or 2nd hand experience? Any other worthy contenders? I use my car as a daily driver, no racing but, it has a 60lb EFR 7163 turbo - 500+hp - lots of fun on an (upgraded) Automatic so I thought that an upgraded suspension is in order, while maintaining the Outback - unique riding characteristics i.e. if I wanted a LegacyGT I would have purchased one... FYI: for the brakes, I'll probably be going with the 328mm 4 piston StopTEch BBK and Porterfield r4s brake pads Thanks in advance... Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigleben Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 The 5088j is the H6 version with the heavier engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 IIRC the JDM BTS kits were 5056J and 5058J. The BTS 5058J was/is the specific kit version for the H6 (6cyl engine) Outback wagon. If the 6 cyl Outback wagon's BTS kit now has the nomenclature BTS 5088J ....I stand corrected. Maybe BTS 5088J is indeed for the H6 (6cyl) yet it is a newer suspension verison/kit ?? IIRC 5058J was a good number for the heavier 6 cyl engined H6 Outback back in the day; 2008 The 5088j is the H6 version with the heavier engine. Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigleben Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Forget what I said... I read 5058j instead of 5088 On japanparts i can't find the bts5088j tho. Only 5058 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX USA Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 The BTS5088 is 30mm lower than the BTS5056. The BTS5056 definitely drops the car from USDM height, and then BTS5088 will drop it another 30mm (I imagine very close to USDM LGT height). http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e170510225 Again, I have the BTS5056 and rather than speculate about how it rides or take an opinion it would be much easier to just come out on a Sunday to Philz in Cupertino and go for a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Are you sure about this BTS 5088 ride height arithmatic? Somewhere Bilstein JDM spec's a total suspension drop of 55mm for the BTS5088J kit? The BTS 5056J drops* 25mm as installed in a USA MY05 Outback XT and another 30mm for the BTS 5088J as referenced here, for a total of 55mm.... (5088J kit spec) * As this thread's OP,,, I scoured the mother fluck'en earth to find a suitable Daily Driver/street suspension set up for the USA turbo XT model Outback as coilovers are less than ideal on a snow packed hwy in the Rockies. Along came the JDM only BTS 5056J . . Gawd dam! The very next step was finding a willing colleague in the Toyko office to assist with FedEx exporting. The rest is history. As for ride height, posted are several pictures using a yard stick against the front/rear fender lip. Both before and after when installing the JDM BTS 5056J kit. The BTS kit's front spring rate/damper character seems about right, but if I had my druthers its the kits rear spring/dampers I'd tighten up. Just a touch. Do keep in mind, the both JDM BTS kits 5056J & 5058J are purposely maintaining the Outback trademark aesthetic of its "raised ride height". JDM Bilstein shop pulled off a tough trick. . . . . If the end game includes dropping an Outback XT, 3.0 et cetra by 2+ inches (55mm) why not use garden variety Bilstein HD (B8) dampers with an Eibach progressive spring; as an example. Save time and money, no? The BTS5088 is 30mm lower than the BTS5056. The BTS5056 definitely drops the car from USDM height, and then BTS5088 will drop it another 30mm (I imagine very close to USDM LGT height). Delete/text . Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX USA Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Are you sure about this BTS 5088 ride height arithmatic? Somewhere Bilstein JDM spec's a total suspension drop of 55mm for the BTS5088J kit? The BTS 5056J drops* 25mm as installed in a USA MY05 Outback XT and another 30mm for the BTS 5088J as referenced here, for a total of 55mm.... (5088J kit spec) This is where my arithmetic came from: http://page21.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/j366897740 They clearly state that the ride height is changed by 0mm. We both already know that this is not true when the BTS5056 is placed on a USDM Third gen Outback (pre and post facelift) because it does in fact drop the ride height. Knowing that, it is safe to assume that the BTS5088 would ride 30mm lower than the ride height of a BTS5056 equipped Outback, or approximately 55mm lower than a stock USDM Outback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Okay,, If you guys have this figured out. An old adage come to mind; Measure Twice, cut Once. I'm not considering a BTS 5088J installation so I've no dog in this fight, so to speak. That said, the linked data is wasn't comprehensive from my vantage piont. O well. All the best installing "anything" which betters an Outback OEM suspension! Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 This is where my arithmetic came from: http://page21.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/j366897740 They clearly state that the ride height is changed by 0mm. We both already know that this is not true when the BTS5056 is placed on a USDM Third gen Outback (pre and post facelift) because it does in fact drop the ride height. Knowing that, it is safe to assume that the BTS5088 would ride 30mm lower than the ride height of a BTS5056 equipped Outback, or approximately 55mm lower than a stock USDM Outback. I believe it doesn't indeed change the ride height for any outback other than usdm. Iirc, the edm or jdm versions have a lower clearance than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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