WRX USA Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I believe it doesn't indeed change the ride height for any outback other than usdm. Iirc, the edm or jdm versions have a lower clearance than we do. I understand that. Since we can all agree that USDM Outbacks are taller than JDM/EDM, I think it is safe to say that the BTS5056 lowers a USDM Outback to the stock height of a JDM/EDM Outback. Are we all still in agreement? How the hell can you look at specs for the BTS5088 (this isn't directed specifically at you, xt2005bonbon) that clearly state that it is -30mm from the JDM/EDM stock height (which once again, we all agree is lower than USDM stock height) and not derive that it is 30mm lower than a BTS5056 equipped USDM/JDM/EDM Outback?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I understand that. Since we can all agree that USDM Outbacks are taller than JDM/EDM, I think it is safe to say that the BTS5056 lowers a USDM Outback to the stock height of a JDM/EDM Outback. Are we all still in agreement? yes . On a different note, have any of you with the bts5056 kit gone driving on forest roads, and a bit rougher terrain? If yes, how did the car handle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tema Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The BTS kit's front spring rate/damper character seems about right, but if I had my druthers its the kits rear spring/dampers I'd tighten up. This is precisely what I got done (tighten up rear dampers) and it's now perfectly in balance in my opinion. Not too many miles yet but instant thought is: "Boring, nothing wrong with this" Not harsh nor sloppy. Not a track suspension either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Both JDM BTS kits 5056J & 5058J work well on USA Forestry Roads and the like including some dirt/gravel roads more challenging. The two JDM BTS mentioned cure a USA Outbacks (XT) suspension short comings. Back in the day (2010) a fellow Colorado MY06 Subi XT owner ordered the alternate (6cyl) intended 5058J kit. Having driven her BTS equipped XT for better part of 75miles, part I-70 hwy, part 55mph Eagle County 2 lane mtn roads the handling felt much the same as my wifes airport comuter MY05 XT BTS 5056J. Now knowing what we know now ... I'd order the 5058J kit for the heavier 6cyl Outback. Just because. Remember JDM didn't offer the engine line up the USA had; The 2.5 normally aspriated , XT's 2.5 turbo and the 6yl Outback. The Germany market Outbacks share the raised ride height look also, what is the Bilstein HD damper part numbers for that markets "raised suspension" Outbacks again? In a few weeks I'll run by the Frankfurt Subi dealer and run a tape measure against the fenders, etc. ... again. yes . On a different note, have any of you with the bts5056 kit gone driving on forest roads, and a bit rougher terrain? If yes, how did the car handle? Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Thanks Tema - Had an opportunity to drive the Outback XT around the Road Atlanta, Brasselton, GA circuit a number of years ago. This was after a day's Porsche Driver's Education outing. With the chassis fully laden (full fuel) riding on a recently new (3-4K mi) set of summer only Michelin's, (no All Season tires in this house) OEM 17" Subi rims, etc. ... the Outback XT BTS wagon predictably under steers, plows at first, gets in line for awhile, rotates, and at the limit the tail comes around. All predictable character. Its not entirely clumsy, just a raised chassis with a front axle weight bias. Have a good one. This is precisely what I got done (tighten up rear dampers) and it's now perfectly in balance in my opinion. Not too many miles yet but instant thought is: "Boring, nothing wrong with this" Not harsh nor sloppy. Not a track suspension either. Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX USA Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Now knowing what we know now ... I'd order the 5058J kit for the heavier 6cyl Outback. Just because. Remember JDM didn't offer the engine line up the USA had; The 2.5 normally aspriated , XT's 2.5 turbo and the 6yl Outback. Subaru offered the Outback in 2.5i, 2.5XT and 3.0R in Japan. They had the same offerings in the United States. The BTS5056 is made for the 2.5 liter engines and the BTS5058 is for 3.0 liter engines. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Working on putting a build thread together, currently busy researching how to low mount mount my EFR 7163 TS turbo ala LegacyGT 2010+... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 WRX USA, PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Working on putting a build thread together, currently busy researching how to low mount mount my EFR 7163 TS turbo ala LegacyGT 2010+... There are two users here who have done it that I know of. One in Colorado one in Australia. Good luck! My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigleben Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Now knowing what we know now ... I'd order the 5058J kit for the heavier 6cyl Outback. Just because. Remember JDM didn't offer the engine line up the USA had; The 2.5 normally aspriated , XT's 2.5 turbo and the 6yl Outback. Wouldn't the 5058j kit "raise" the front on a 2.5liter engine since it was made for the heavier 3.0 engine ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Thanks OB2.5XT, I suspect that the fellow in Colorado is mwiener2, right? Would you happened to point me to the person who accomplished this in Australia? Fundamentally its not difficult but the devil is always lurking in the details so I can use all the help I can get Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Both JDM BTS kits 5056J & 5058J work well on USA Forestry Roads and the like including some dirt/gravel roads more challenging. The two JDM BTS mentioned cure a USA Outbacks (XT) suspension short comings. Back in the day (2010) a fellow Colorado MY06 Subi XT owner ordered the alternate (6cyl) intended 5058J kit. Having driven her BTS equipped XT for better part of 75miles, part I-70 hwy, part 55mph Eagle County 2 lane mtn roads the handling felt much the same as my wifes airport comuter MY05 XT BTS 5056J. Now knowing what we know now ... I'd order the 5058J kit for the heavier 6cyl Outback. Just because...." ...QUOTE] M. Schneider, May I please ask you to elaborate on your after-the-fact preference toward the 5058J kit (H6 spec) for the XT? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I am looking to go ahead and purchase the BTS 5056J, anybody interested in a group purchase? please PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 FYI, found an interesting comparison between what appears to be stock JDM Outback suspension and the BTS kit one: http://tenkun.blog65.fc2.com/blog-entry-296.html (check out the accelerometer compero) Also, here is a link to the descripion of the 5088J BTS kit which lowers that car by 30mm: http://www.bilstein.co.jp/uploads/pdf/outback_bp9_bts2.pdf This flyer makes a few references to ride, handling and comfort but the Google translator makes little sense and no help here. Perhaps somebody can translate the gist of both - thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 The Subaru Japan domestic market (JDM) offered its Outback model with two engine choices, the 2.5 4cyl and 6cyl, neither of which engines have the added weight of turbo charged induction. The two JDM Bilstein BTS suspension kit's were authored with respect to each of these vehicles engine weight. IIRC the weight difference of these two engines is less than 90lbs. (all on the front axle) Along comes the Subaru North American market offering similar Outback models with the same 2 aforementioned engines, plus a 3rd engine, the 2.5 Turbo 4cyl as used in the Outback XT model's. Added weight accumulates by virtue of the turbo charged induction components. Its with reasonable speculation that the North American market 2.5 4cyl Turbo engine's actual weight is somewhere between the JDM 2.5 4cyl (normally aspirated) and the JDM 6cyl engine (also, normally aspirated) Now we are splitting hairs in engine weight, a stout bag of groceries one way or another. Having bought the JDM 4cyl BTS 5056J years ago.... If I had to buy an Outback XT suspension kit again, moving forward I'd split the hair in the other direction this time choosing the JDM 6cyl BTS 5058J. Today I'd recommend the 6cyl BTS 5058J by a hair over the BTS 5056J. P.S. There is no buyer's remorse having purchased the lighter weight BTS 5056J kit. Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 Nope. Visually not so much as a chance. The weight difference of these two specific engines would need to be much greater. If your considering one of the JDM Bilstein BTS kit's in stock ride height form (5056J or 5058J) for a USA Outback XT either kit provides a superior suspension improvement. Nod, BTS 5058J for a OB XT. In concert with the either BTS kit, increasing the wagons rear sway bar dimension provides a big gain in chassis control/character. Do remember, this is a street vehicle driven on every day imperfect pavement, not a week day or weekend tract car .... Wouldn't the 5058j kit "raise" the front on a 2.5liter engine since it was made for the heavier 3.0 engine ?? Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 Yeah, I read about these two new(er) "lowering 30mm kits" JDM BTS 5088J & 5089J both for our Outback year series. Saved the pdf. just in case ... If the idea is to jettison the raised ride height signature of the Outback models .............. I'd think this could be handled with domestic USA Bilstein components or any number of other readily available brands. Good find though ... The Bilstein gear is top shelf in my experience. FYI, found an interesting comparison between what appears to be stock JDM Outback suspension and the BTS kit one: http://tenkun.blog65.fc2.com/blog-entry-296.html (check out the accelerometer compero) Also, here is a link to the descripion of the 5088J BTS kit which lowers that car by 30mm: http://www.bilstein.co.jp/uploads/pdf/outback_bp9_bts2.pdf This flyer makes a few references to ride, handling and comfort but the Google translator makes little sense and no help here. Perhaps somebody can translate the gist of both - thanks! Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Schneider Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 Was not aware that JDM Subaru had offered a turbo charged version of the 2.5 4cyl in its Outback wagon .. back in the day. I suppose we hadn't asked the right person, and not for the lack of trying. The word we all got back at the time was no 2.5 turbo Outback. Go figure. Subaru offered the Outback in 2.5i, 2.5XT and 3.0R in Japan. They had the same offerings in the United States. The BTS5056 is made for the 2.5 liter engines and the BTS5058 is for 3.0 liter engines. What am I missing? Cheers, Mike |`94 E-Class Coupe |`98 Carrera 993 C2S |`14 Cayman S |`20 Outback Touring XT | All Debadged | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigleben Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I looked at the outback specifications sheet (MY07 since this is my year) Curb weight: Manual transmission (kg) 2.5i: 1511 2.5xt: 1603 3.0R : - Curb weight: Automatic transmission (kg) 2.5i :1531 2.5XT :1635 3.0R : 1595 This shows the XT is closer to the H6 weight. Unless there is a big difference in weight vs the JDM models, the XT owners should aim for the 5058j kit as mentionned M.Schneider. Dammit this kit is so tempting :spin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Thanks M. Schneider, bigleben, I have no problem going for the 58J kit - my car has many aftermarket mods which, if anything, makes it even more front heavy that a stock XT. But, I wonder, does a ~50-60lb difference really necessitates different suspension HW? There is more variance in the weight of the driver (+/- passenger.) Perhaps these are actually the same HW, just different P/N? Or, there is something about the geometry of the cars...? Either way, if indeed the JDM 56J was designed for the JDM XT than it is actually more in line with my heavier car. Otherwise, if the 56J is designed for a 2.5 NA and the 58J for the 3.0R than indeed the 5058J is the way to go for the USDM XT, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 All, it looks like the 5056J option is for a NA car: http://www.hirano-tire.co.jp/bil/bil4.htm There seems to be no option for the turbo so, for that slightly heavier vehicle, the 5058J options might indeed be the better choice, all other things being equal - or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 All, it looks like the 5056J option is for a NA car: http://www.hirano-tire.co.jp/bil/bil4.htm There seems to be no option for the turbo so, for that slightly heavier vehicle, the 5058J options might indeed be the better choice, all other things being equal - or am I missing something? WRX USA has the 5056j (but a 5spd manual) if the Auto is heavier, the 5058j might be a slightly better choice. Here is his build thread if you want to see the stance. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/wrx-usas-09-obxt-build-thread-241191.html However, I bet you are splitting hairs and it doesn't matter. My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 OB2.5XT; yea, the auto is heavier, and my mods add at least another 30-40lb, I would say that my car is ~100lb heavier than the near stock XT manual. But you are right, its splitting hairs - I plan to place the order for my kit asap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fladric Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Could anyone specify the Bilstein original number on the struts and the springs (for the BTS 5058j kit if possible)? Importing from Japan isn't an option for me so will try to source them from my Bilstein dealer in Sweden! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robe30 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Will these struts work in conjunction with King springs? I hate to give up my springs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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