SPECB08 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 my two cents... I traded my 2005 Infiniti G35x for my 2008 spec.b. The Infiniti certainly had many more creature comforts for a similar price - but it was not a lot of fun to drive. I found it was slow, loud, got poor MPG and I really disliked the AWD system. It had a nasty tendency to pendulum when turning from a stop in the wet/snow. The stability control would catch it, but not before I swung around ~45 degrees and it scared the #$^* out of me. So, I didn't like that car - and went to my subaru dealer. The spec.b was immesurably more fun and engaging to drive than the G35x (you cannot get the six speed with awd in the Infiniti). The spec.b delivered a quieter and more supple ride (not soft - but not sport hard) than the lgt I drove - and featured the torsen rear diff and traction control I decided I did not want to be without. Both the lgt and spec.b are great cars. I wanted to go with a car I didn't need to upgrade and get into warranty issues with (I had a 2003 highly modded WRX and the dealers managed to claim every service need was due to mods). I really like the better (more sophisticated) action of the six speed - and tha alcantara seats are awesome (after two years of sliding around on my all leather infiniti seats). Also I have a real estate appraisal company and the nav system works great for me ( I know there are better out there). I go to 3-5 houses daily and for the twenty or so homes a week I use it for it has yet to let me down in 4 months/8,000 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I just configured a 08 S and with each package plus lsd, nav, alarm and some protection bits it came out to $34k. I swear when I configured an 07 that we were actually serious about buying at the time, it came out to $36k - $38k. I have driven a 05 S and an 07 S w/ sport, disliked them both, you are very much entitled to your opinion though. If you like your car and you are happy with it, then so be it. My friends girlfriend just bought one two weeks ago, and just as with every car they buy, they ask me to test drive it. I quickly refused with the MINI but they still bought it, and then added their fourth BMW to the line up this last weekend. A M coupe... that one was a blast to drive. First of all though, I do not buy into that "no two builds are the same" crap. It's still a MINI Cooper, and while there are millions of combinations they are just different stickers, trim, wheels, etc. So no two may not look alike, but when you have a Cooper S with the Hyper Sport package, LSD and 6-MT, none of those options change the way the car feels or how it behaves when driven hard and adding British flags, racing stripes, checker boards, chrome, etc only makes the car look worse. And there is no way you will ever get that MINI to pull a faster 0-60, quarter mile, trap speed, or lap time or ever be nearly as fun to drive as a gt, let alone a spec.b. You have a fine car, but all you bought was a status quo and gay image, and you come on here bragging about it being better than a gt or spec.b and expect to make friends? I will see your FWD run flat POS in my rear view. Now lets get back on topic. review of mini s w sport: http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2002-to-2006-mini-cooper-1.htm review of outback xt: http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2005-to-2006-subaru-legacy-outback-1.htm wow, they like the outback xt significantly more than the cooper s. try getting them into a gt or spec.b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unorthodox Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Wow what an ASSHOLE! God I love internet tough guys hiding behind their monitor 3K miles away. I loved my LGT! I'm by no means knocking the cars down and making friends has nothing to do with the conversation. Besides the poll clearly speaks volumes! In a Presidential election its called a landslide! Autcrossing and road racing you are squarely wrong about lap times. At 1000 lbs less than a Legacy and with similar Stage 2 mods the MINI should walk away at speed just based on power to weight. AWD has one advantage at launch. IGNORANCE IS A DISEASE AND IS EXCUSABLE. BELIGERANCE IS LEARNED AND IS UNFORGIVABLE! Oh and the Consumer Guide test is of the old model! Duh Sorry to all others here on this Board who believe in open free discussion! Respectfully, Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudy Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Autcrossing and road racing you are squarely wrong about lap times. At 1000 lbs less than a Legacy and with similar Stage 2 mods the MINI should walk away at speed just based on power to weight. AWD has one advantage at launch. Well, two advantages, the ability to apply power out of a turn sooner. At a track sized like VIR or Road America I'd put money on a SpecB. Also, with respect to auto-x, the SCCA has 05+ Legacy GT's (all models) as D-Stock; for perspective, same class as the Integra Type-R and the Audi S4 from 00-03 (2.7TT model). The Cooper S is much lower G Stock, with the cars like the Audi A4, Accord V6 etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unorthodox Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Well, two advantages, the ability to apply power out of a turn sooner. At a track sized like VIR or Road America I'd put money on a SpecB. Also, with respect to auto-x, the SCCA has 05+ Legacy GT's (all models) as D-Stock; for perspective, same class as the Integra Type-R and the Audi S4 from 00-03 (2.7TT model). The Cooper S is much lower G Stock, with the cars like the Audi A4, Accord V6 etc. With limited slip most FWD cars can put power down just as early. As far as auto-crossing goes I'm not talkiing about stock classes. Stock classes are 90% driver and 10% car. Respectfully, Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi365 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Its a huge deal, the only reason it not as big a deal in the US is because we still have high sulfer gas (Diesel has been low sulfur since 09/06). In Europe FSI is good for 10% improvement in efficiancy across the board because they have clean gas. 10% on fuel injection coupled with a real 6th gear (.5) would mean 30MPG for the LGT & B. Not to mention Subaru can bump compression ratio up a 1.5 points with direct injection which equals more more! FSI is more of an emissions related then performance/mileage. The point of it is to atomize the fuel better by increasing fuel pressure. THen they inject this high pressure fuel into the combustion chamber directly which in turn reduces combustion chamber temps (which also reduces nitrogen oxide emissions). In fact to my knowledge the US market doesn't even get the real FSI (Fuel Stratified Injection). Our setup is called Fuel Straight Injected cause our cars don't get the stratifed mode. Again that 10% you think you'll gain is an estimate only and more then likely you won't see that much of a gain. Sulfer is more of a diesel concern then gasoline and the US has had ultra low sulfer fuel since last september yet almost all the german manufacturers are still sitting on their thumbs and not bringing all their diesels. Windows open from door lock, actually the car open without key on the MINI just keep it in your pocket. The first part with the windows opening/closing at the key lock is a german thing. It was kind of pointless unless some coding was changed to were you could do that with just the remote. The second part you are refering to is called Advanced Key/Smart Key/ whatever brand X wants to call it. As of now Subaru does offer it, just on the 08 Impreza though. Just like bluetooth its only a matter of time before it bleeds intot he other lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudy Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 With limited slip most FWD cars can put power down just as early. As far as auto-crossing goes I'm not talkiing about stock classes. Stock classes are 90% driver and 10% car. Respectfully, Shawn Stock classes are actually 100% about classing cars competitively. The higher the class, the more capable the SCCA feels a car is. Thus, cars like the Lotus Elise are in Super Stock, the NSX in A Stock, Porsche 911 non-turbo are in B Stock...etc, in descending capability. Thus, a Legacy GT in D Stock has a higher expectation of performance than a Cooper S in G Stock. If anything, the Mini becomes less competitive as you mod both cars to the same level as FWD becomes increasingly less capable of handling higher HP levels vs. the Leg's AWD which can essentially power down as much HP as you can add. And, I have to respectively disagree that a FWD car even with limited slip can power out of a turn anywhere near as soon as an AWD car. This comes from having owned and tracked extensively a 250whp FWD car w/ Quaife LSD installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 That just proves that the Mustang and the Camaro are both faster cars than the the King of Cars!!!!! How can this be Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi365 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 That just proves that the Mustang and the Camaro are both faster cars than the the King of Cars!!!!! How can this be Yes but the SRT4 is in super dupper ultra ubber class cause it is of course the fastest car ev4r!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Wow what an ASSHOLE! God I love internet tough guys hiding behind their monitor 3K miles away. I loved my LGT! I'm by no means knocking the cars down and making friends has nothing to do with the conversation. Besides the poll clearly speaks volumes! In a Presidential election its called a landslide! Autcrossing and road racing you are squarely wrong about lap times. At 1000 lbs less than a Legacy and with similar Stage 2 mods the MINI should walk away at speed just based on power to weight. AWD has one advantage at launch. IGNORANCE IS A DISEASE AND IS EXCUSABLE. BELIGERANCE IS LEARNED AND IS UNFORGIVABLE! Oh and the Consumer Guide test is of the old model! Duh Sorry to all others here on this Board who believe in open free discussion! Respectfully, Shawn You are right, I am sorry. I must bow down to you my master as the Cooper S is far superior and I am jealous to no end. I can't believe I bought an AWD turbo vehicle with 'world class suspension', traction control, a good lsd and grippy tires, when a Cooper is so obviously teh bettar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gitster Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Ibtl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I have never seen so much MINI verbiage on this site. Gives A/S4, 335x, some respite. But slightly off topic, no? But seriously folks, the Spec b has some nice hardware the GT doesn't have, even if the Bilsteins are the softest ones you can get. Don't really give a poo about alacantara (whatever that means) or nav. But most of all, it's not a WAGON!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Besides from what I understand the 0-60 times on a spec B are slightly better due to the increased torque... Is driver pedaling too? Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I started researching the GT and SB choices about the time the 07 came out. I had hopes that my wife would be on board with a GT when her FXT lease expired. Of course the SB option piqued my interest and so I started investigating it heavily. I needed to convince myself and my wife that it was worth the extra coin and I decided to price out what it would cost to SB a GT. Here's what I came up with: Pedals $95.00 (MastroWRX.com) Bilstein Shocks $512.00 (TireRack.com) Sti 6 Speed Tranny (I can't remember where I located a used one for but it was $2500 plus the clutch and misc parts. A member on this board (Hammer Down) did a conversion with the DCCD for right at 6K, anyway 2500 is very conservative for this.) Navigation system $1721.00 (invoice) Memory Seats $??? Limited Slip Torsen Diff = approx $1000.00 18 wheels approx 1,000.00 RE050A tires (4) $712.00 Tirerack aluminum suspension components $200??? Alacantara inserts- $ ??? VDC (defeatable if desired) $??? Total of dollar figures above = $7740.00 Now consider what labor might cost if you had someone do some/any/all of the work for you and the extra $$ for the parts I couldn't get an estimate on. Now the 4-5K difference between the GT and SB seems like a pretty good bargain doesn't it? Well it seemed like a bargain to me and the figures convinced the wife so we got the 08 model. We couldn't be happier and we eagerly await the AccessPort arrival for it! Fine and dandy but where o where is another colum for the stuff you are throwing away and Subaru does not install? Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krzyss Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 If your a driving enthusiast who doesn't want to mod right out of the box to make the legacy drive properly get the spec. B. If you want a AWD camry and aren't going to mod get the LGT. Spec B R3.0 is better choice then, not LGT. Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Fine and dandy but where o where is another colum for the stuff you are throwing away and Subaru does not install? Krzysexcept for those converting to stock to sell the car, is there a market for used gt stockers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unorthodox Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 You are right, I am sorry. I must bow down to you my master as the Cooper S is far superior and I am jealous to no end. I can't believe I bought an AWD turbo vehicle with 'world class suspension', traction control, a good lsd and grippy tires, when a Cooper is so obviously teh bettar. This is exactly why I don't bother with boards half the time because people like you who can't read nor understand the written word. Listen anytime you want to race I'll be glad to meet you with my MKIV Supra Turbo since I'm so "GAY" Just to re-sum things up for you since you can't read. I chose fuel economy, reasonable performance and a nice options package. I loved my LGT and would have liked a B if I could lose the NAV and get it for less with better fuel economy. Anyway blah, blah, blah since you still don't get it! Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi365 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 This is exactly why I don't bother with boards half the time because people like you who can't read nor understand the written word. Listen anytime you want to race I'll be glad to meet you with my MKIV Supra Turbo since I'm so "GAY" Just to re-sum things up for you since you can't read. I chose fuel economy, reasonable performance and a nice options package. I loved my LGT and would have liked a B if I could lose the NAV and get it for less with better fuel economy. Anyway blah, blah, blah since you still don't get it! Shawn Not to get into an argument with you. I get that you are saying there are other options out there and the fact that Subaru is pretty rigid with their option packages and all. We've all said and agreed on that note. If you like Mini's then more power to you. I know 3 people with them so Mini must be doing something right. However a Mini Cooper isn't a real option at all for me. Even with all the great features you listed there is one thing that the Legacy in general has over a Mini and that is size. I'm 6'1" 220lbs. . Height wise I fit in a Mini, but there is little side room for a person of my size. My size limits me sometimes to cars I can own cause the seat may not go far enough back, doesn't go enough down, or is just to narrow of a seat which makes in uncomfortable to sit in for long periods of time. I can't option a Mini extra wide, so its not a realistic choice for me. I bought a sB cause it had almost everything I wanted in a car and I actually fit pretty well in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unorthodox Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 In an earlier post I acknowledged that most of the choice is pretty subjective which includes size constraints. I'm actually 6' 0" and 240 lbs. and I do agree the MINI is a bit tight sidewise but hopefully I'll get used to it. :-) Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paycer Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Fine and dandy but where o where is another colum for the stuff you are throwing away and Subaru does not install? Krzys I think you misunderstood the gist of my post. I was pointing out how much coin it would take to 'upgrade' the LGT to the equipment level the spec.B comes from the factory with. My point was that it would cost WAY more to sB an LGT than it would to just buy the sB. In the end we picked up the sB. In a roundabout sort of way, you kind of pointed out another potential plus for modding the LGT to sB argument. Anything you'd replace on the LGT leaves you with the factory stuff to sell to someone. I'm not sure how much that stuff would be worth if much, (winter wheels/tires?) but nevertheless you would have some spare parts to pawn off that would mildly offset the nearly 8 GRAND extra you'd spend on such a conversion project. Looks like it's a whole lot cheaper to just buy the sB if of course that's your thing. P.S. Ironically, (because of the recent mini chatter in this thread) I saw a silver/black roofed/black hood striped CooperS on the way home from work yesterday and it looked pretty cool. It was a block from the Mini/BMW dealer so it was brand spankin' new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unorthodox Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Damn your in Nebraska, I was hoping you were in my neck of the woods, because mine is supposed to be here soon and thought maybe you saw her. :-) Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambed3 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I am not sure what all of the upgrades are with the Spec B but I know built in navigation is one of them. I just read an article recently that said you never get your money back for the built in navigation (which you obviously pay for when you buy the car). if this is something that you want, go out and buy a portable GPS unit that you can keep after you sell the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZZMAN Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Mini jokes... The mini has the biggest glove compartment. There is only one mistake. You have to leave the car to reach it. ______________________________________ <h3> <h3> Q: Why did the blonde crash into the mini? A: She thought it was a big car far away ___________________________________ Bloke in a mini 850 breaks down on the motorway. He's standing on the hard shoulder, scratching his head, when a big Aston-Martin pulls up and its owner offers to tow him to the next service station. So they tie a towrope to the mini, and off they go. Five miles down the road, a Mercedes overtakes the Aston, and its driver, striken by road rage, forgets he's towing the Mini and stamps on the accelerator. The Merc and the Aston hare down the motorway, neck and neck, at about 150mph, with the poor terrified mini owner beeping his horn and flashing his lights. They pass a Traffic Policeman, who clocks their speed and radios into his station. "Sarge, you won't believe this - an Aston and a Merc doing 150 neck and neck with some loony in a mini trying to overtake them both!" ______________________________________________ </h3> </h3> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paycer Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Well it looks like this poll burned out at about almost 60% saying "No" and about 40% saying "Yes". Of course the sB isn't going to appeal to everyone and I can certainly understand the reasoning behind both camps. I merely bumped this to see if we missed anyone and to hopefully get it glanced at by SOA to prove that they could probably sell a couple hundred STI models her now. SOA is your wacky market test/science experiment over yet? Bring us the good shite already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I knew where this was going... Should have named it "Is the Legacy 'Tuned by STI edition' Worth The Extra $$$". Oh wait, that thread already exists, 100x before. Of the 60% who think the spec.B is not worth the price, how many of those would actually lay down their cash for a "Legacy STI" if it had the same power output or ~300 hp? Had that model have been available, I would have bought it, but it is just a spec.B with the whole STI parts catalouge added. No STI tune, or additional power output. Next time use the search button. PS. It's funny that you think SOA would read this forum or even google search terms that might possibly bring it up. Their consumer research does not go beyond car magazine reviews and warranty claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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