Is the Spec B Worth The Extra $$$

[Leonardo]

Mostly? then get the GT cuz once you start, you can't stop! Look at my cardoman and you'll see my point!

[DukeTrout]

When I actually priced them out, the spec.B was only going to be $3500 more out the door, and I was going to be able to drive it home 3 months earlier.

 

Just as someone noted that the only folks who replied "yes" to the poll are spec.B owners (which I doubt from some of the positive responses from GT owners), likewise the only negative responses are probably only from those who haven't driven a spec.B. Ok, maybe that isn't fair. But you see my point.

 

I added up the differences, and what they would cost, then weighted them based on how much I valued that particular item. They came out dead even (I didn't particularly want the Nav). For the right color and immediate delivery verses the wrong color or 3 months wait, I picked the spec.B. Now, there's no way I could go back to the 5mt. I do so every time I drive my wife's OBXT, and it really is a big difference. I've added AVO RSB and brackets, JDP Pinks, and now an AVO TMIC. With a dp and tune, I'm going to be very happy indeed. That's what I call value.

[jtom]

well keep in mind that I have never driven a six speed so theres no priority.....

[paycer]

^Once you try it, it will be. My wife's previous car was 5spd XT Forester and my previous car was a 5 spd 02 WRX. Now granted my dad's 07 LGT 5spd seems better than the two previous subies I mentioned, but I thought my 6 speed WRX STi shifter rocked. It did until I drove the chiquita's sB 6 speed (both factory S/S).

 

Don't take my or some other unknowns internets wizdom as fact, drive them back to back and see what you think. Maybe you will like the 5 speed better.

 

Maybe not.

 

PS Just today went and test drove an R32 with my boss (for him) and I thought the R32 had decent seats and the engine sounded schweet! I mean the engine REALLY sounded cool at speed. The car itself was a dog though. Must be heavy. 7 more HP than the LGT and still slower. Check it out and see what I mean. The flappy paddle tranny was a yawner too although I've heard the LGT one is good.

Anyway, my boss is now leaning toward a 135i now so I'll give feedback when I sample that one.

[hutru01]

I voted NO

 

Spec Pees have nice struts, and ugly blue alcantara seats....The amount of extra money that you spend on Spec Pee could easily buy better modifications on a GT.

 

Take the price of the bilsteins for instance. Take that difference alone and you could have nice coilovers instead. (Although some might prefer the ride of bilsteins)

 

To each its own I guess.....

[paycer]

The 08 seats are gray Alcantara and black.

Only the 07 sB and STi's have the "ugly blue and black" seats.

Mine even has PINK (errr, cherry blossom red) on them. Doh!

 

BTW This poll is almost exactly at a 60/40 split right now.

 

Which of course is the exact ratio of seat splittage on the current LGT.

Yeah, useless trivia. Thank you for your time.

[jtom]

The fact that the r32 is slower is not a huge deal to me because most cars are faster then mine and I have never really driven a fast car.

[rudy]

The fact that the r32 is slower is not a huge deal to me because most cars are faster then mine and I have never really driven a fast car.

 

I hear the R32's heating system is amazing, perfect for winter:

 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3497858

[tractorcrusher]

ugly blue alcantara seats....

 

I have yet to have a person ride in my car and not love my seat colors... I thought brick red was pretty cool but it's a little overwhelming being the only fabric color with no contrast.

 

To me, the Spec B was worth the extra money just for resale value alone. Think about it this way- most people looking to buy a used car are going to want the top of the line package for what they can afford. If a person knows absolutely nothing about cars or package specifics, they're still going to naturally lean toward the car that had the higher MSRP. Real world example- my friend has been searching for a E46 3-Series for months now, but really wants a 330 over a 325. He's having a hell of a time finding a 330, yet 325's are all over the place. Any time he's gotten close to buying a 325 he's backed out, because he's felt like he's "settling" for the lesser package.

 

This is not to say that I think the LGT is a lesser car than the Spec B, but in my shoes when I was deciding to buy a Subaru over a BMW or Infinity, I wanted the top of the line package.

[hutru01]

^ thats why I say to each its own

[psi365]

I could have bought an 07 for a little cheaper final price and special finanancing, but I didn't like the blue seats. If I could have dealt with the blue seats I would have just bought a Wrx STi instead, Then about the time I was getting ready to pull the trigger rumors of the 08'a had started and when I found out they had pretty much all black interior, I was set.

[ERLoft]

For my .02, the Spec.B is worth it on the 6mt alone, assuming you want a manual. It's bulletproof, which if you're looking at bumping up the power, is a good feeling. The cost to obtain and install a 6mt would likely get into the 4-5k range - if you do the install yourself. Plus, I have it on pretty good authority from some people with Subaru that the Spec.B is LSD on the front as well. Maybe someone here will confirm or refute that, as I haven't gone out and tried donuts to find out.

 

I like the nav system as well, although some hate it, so that's all personal.

 

The suspension upgrades are really nice, and hey, those big shiny chunks of aluminum look mighty sexy when you're under the car working. Especially that rear trailing arm.... rrrrrrawr!

 

The interiors, especially the '06 and '07 are a very subjective bit. Some love them, some hate them. I love my '07 interior, so it works for me.

 

Plus, everyone knows the Spec.B is fastAr! Just check my stock dyno chart:

 

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/ERLoft/ericloft1.jpg

 

 

So, obviously, I voted yes. Now, if that damn '07 AccessPort would come out so I could actually get to stage 2...

[Vimy101]

^ Having a LSD on the front axle could prove troublesome in some common snow conditions. Anyone who has driven a RWD vehicle with an open diff knows that only one wheel wheel receive power. This can be a problem because you can get stuck pretty easily. A RWD with a LSD will get power going to both wheels. However, should the snow be wet or slippery (some snow is dry and grippy) and the depth interferes with the front wheels from rolling easily, the back end will slide out leaving you pointed the wrong way and perhaps sliding back end into the ditch. It's happened to me more than a few times.

 

A symetrical AWD w/ the open front diff will at least have one front tire acting as an "anchor" in this type of situation. The AWD with f and r LSDs, on the other hand, could easily have the situation where the diffs spin the axles evenly and take you straight off the cliff. Runaway understeer, if you will.

 

I think there is a reason that Subaru has run open front diffs for many years. Gravel, while the car is under acceleration, would/might be another comparable scenario. Perhaps VLSDs can be designed with non-Newtonian fluids that are less less subject to shear for f diff purposes?

 

Something to be aware of, IMHO.

 

BTW, The LGT's 5mt has proven to be pretty damn bullet proof itself. Kudos to Subaru. Tranny problems (Red Beast not withstanding), haven't been much discussed on this site.

[stewartg]

Ok honestly this might be a stupid question but couldn't you recreate a spec b sans the transmission and navi with about 2k worth of suspension parts?

Bilstein, Spec B springs, LCA,(optional rims).

 

Cause to be honest, i don't really care about the navi, the transmission however would be nice since aren't the first three gears from the sti as well.

 

Any tuning that i am missing?

I'm drinking and lazy so i dont want to read 10 pages, but all I have to say to this is NO WAY to korpsepatrol. and HELL YEAH to the OP.

 

Thus far I haven't seen anything about the LSD, but i'm sure it is contained within the 10 pages. If you want AT the choice is clear, if you dont like DMG or QSM the choice is clear. If you are going to be heavily modifying the car, the choice is clear (sirsimon begs to differ though).

 

Performance wise you get 6MT (worlds better than that mushy crap they put in the gt, worth the upgrade all on its own), the bilstein struts (same at jdm gt rev.c which many gt owners upgrade too), 18" wheels (quicker acceleration, better cornering and much better looking), re050a's (not the worlds greatest tire, but you cannot even begin to compare the re92's to it), aluminum control arms, torsen rear lsd, navi, vdc, alcantara (like said before warm in the winter, cold in the summer, and they grip you very good in the corners), wider aluminum pedals, chrome painted moldings, ss door sills. I know there is more, but I think we have well exceeded $8k already.

 

I am not going to make claims of world class suspension, or stage one outta the box, but the car IS quicker, handles, better and looks better than a gt and is more comfortable to boot. Worth it? YES! If however you planned on extensively modifying the car, you will end up replacing many of the parts you are paying a premium for on the spec.b thus reducing the margins. It all comes down to your finances and what your plans for the car are, but mostly which of the cars YOU think YOU enjoy.

 

If you go with a spec.b you should look into springs or coil overs, sway bars and brake pads before anything else. If you get a gt, add wheels and tires to that as well.

 

Also, if you don't need the turbo, and you want an at, the 3.0r actually costs less than a fully loaded gt auto, just a thought.

 

I don't want to be biased solely because I own a spec.b, but i once had to go through the same decision as you, the naysayers here cannot convince me otherwise, but you will find people hardcore on either side.

 

 

EDIT: >90% of the people on here own GT's, but I don't see how 60% can claim the spec.b is not worth it, yet beg to buy take off wheels, tires and suspension from spec.b owners and long for the day of a legacy tuned by sti edition stateside at even a higher premium.

[AZZMAN]

The 2006 spec b. can hit 62 mph in second gear.

 

I hear the 2007 and 2008 can hit only 56 mph in second gear. Different gearing ratios...

 

Does anyone have the gearing spec's between the 5sp man. and 6sp man. trans?

[rao]

If you go with a spec.b you should look into springs or coil overs, sway bars and brake pads before anything else.

 

If the stock Spec B suspension is World Class, then why would it need to be upgraded?

[unorthodox]

Not trying to be a pest since I actually no longer have my 2005 LGT Limited (I'm the Hit & Run survivor). But I had serious thoughts about a new B but decided against because of the $32K I would have paid. I ended up buying a 2007 Mini Cooper S, now to be fair my brother in law works for BMW so I got a stupid deal on the Mini (lets say I saved way upwards of 3K), dark silver w/black roof and hood stripes. Now I realize the direct comparison of the two cars is like comparing grapes to apples but its the feature list that kills me in respect to the B.

 

I'll list what the my Mini has that the B does not have nor offer: Direct injection (biggy for me), heated cloth sport seats (I really hate leather and yes I know the B is leather/alcantra), mega full roof moonroof, Xenons w/power wash, central locking system, auto down & up both windows, rear wiper (Enough SOA), overboost feature (so much for Si-Drive), sport button (like Si Drive but tightens steering and throttle response), traction control, rain sensor & auto headlamps, bluetooth mobile phone integration, anthracite headliner (hated the light grey Subaru trim above the dash line) and tons of other options which I did not choose.

 

Now for the MINI has that the B has: All aluminum suspension, heated seat, washer jets & mirrors, auto climate control, multi-function steering wheel, stability control, sport suspension, limited slip, 6 spd, auto dimming rear view, universal garage door opener, on-board computer (I could have bought NAV but I don't need it, I'd rather have a mobile unit that I can move from car to car), center armrest.

 

Now to be fair the B has only one thing that the MINI doesn't - AWD. 98% of the time I will not need in on Long Island.

 

Now for the killer, the MINI weighs in at 2600 lbs, gets 29 City & 36 HWY (My brother in law did some testing with the MINI S and saw 40+ on the hwy). I was lucky to see 20 overall in my GT. Since I see $3.50 - $4.00 gas at some point next year I can't justify the wasted gas. For now the GT or B is faster than the Mini but some early programming has shown 220 HP & 250 ft/lbs, which although the AWD has the off the line advantage the MINI with that kind of power would run away as the MPH increases.

 

I know much of everybody's reasons for or against are mostly subjective but to me the B should have 25 more HP and Ft/Lbs., Recaro type cloth sport seats, the same gearing as the 5 spd except the 6th should be .5, the NAV should have been an option but the screen remains and gives all the other features, Brembos, 18x8's with 235's, rear wiper, auto up and down all windows, central locking system and out the door at $31K (w/o NAV).

 

Just my two hundred cents :-)

Shawn

[Vimy101]

If the stock Spec B suspension is World Class, then why would it need to be upgraded?

 

To make it feel more like a race car.

[psi365]

I'll list what the my Mini has that the B does not have nor offer: Direct injection (biggy for me), heated cloth sport seats (I really hate leather and yes I know the B is leather/alcantra), mega full roof moonroof, Xenons w/power wash, central locking system, auto down & up both windows, rear wiper (Enough SOA), overboost feature (so much for Si-Drive), sport button (like Si Drive but tightens steering and throttle response), traction control, rain sensor & auto headlamps, bluetooth mobile phone integration, anthracite headliner (hated the light grey Subaru trim above the dash line) and tons of other options which I did not choose.

 

Direct injection/FSI isn't that big of a deal. I've been working on cars with it since 05. You see minor power and fuel mileage gains with it. IIRC they say you maybe gain 7% fuel mileage gains with it. That's the max in which you'd rarely see too. With direct injection you also have an increase of the price of the injectors and you also can't replace them at home most of the time due to special procedures for reducing fuel rail pressure and special installation/removal tools.

 

One reason I like the alacantara seats in the my sB is cause the suede part of the seat doesn't get super hot in the summer, nor freezing in the winter.

 

Central locking system? I'm wondering what you are considering the central locking system. Usually with german cars that means remote entry, which my sB does have. I even got an option package that grouped in the shock sensor. So its not something that the LGT doesn't have.

 

Traction control is standard on the sB. All sB's come with VDC standard which is Subaru's name for traction control. Add awd and you can't beat it for year round performance.

 

No HID's, alacantara roof, headlight washers, sport seats, rear wiper, or bluetooth (the 08 Wrx has the option for bluetooth in which it will more then likely be available in the Legacy). I do think one thing Mini does better then any other car company is letting the customer spec out their car to their own tastes. They give people a lot of choices especially compared to Subaru.

[Vimy101]

^ Awd > Fwd.

[unorthodox]

Direct injection/FSI isn't that big of a deal.

 

Its a huge deal, the only reason it not as big a deal in the US is because we still have high sulfer gas (Diesel has been low sulfur since 09/06). In Europe FSI is good for 10% improvement in efficiancy across the board because they have clean gas. 10% on fuel injection coupled with a real 6th gear (.5) would mean 30MPG for the LGT & B. Not to mention Subaru can bump compression ratio up a 1.5 points with direct injection which equals more more!

 

One reason I like the alacantara seats in the my sB is cause the suede part of the seat doesn't get super hot in the summer, nor freezing in the winter.

 

Agreed but thats why I like cloth all around, no slipping and sliding and no maintenance.

 

Central locking system? I'm wondering what you are considering the central locking system. Usually with german cars that means remote entry, which my sB does have.

 

Windows open from door lock, actually the car open without key on the MINI just keep it in your pocket.

 

Traction control is standard on the sB. All sB's come with VDC standard which is Subaru's name for traction control. Add awd and you can't beat it for year round performance.

 

Agreed on the traction of AWD but not worth the fuel efficiency loss especially in areas where snow is not as much of a factor.

 

:-)

Shawn

[stewartg]

If the stock Spec B suspension is World Class, then why would it need to be upgraded?

That is why I refrained to making a claim of world class suspension.

 

The MINI's are nice, the killers are they are UGLY (very objective I know, the convertible sidewalk edition is the best one, but just doesnt turn me on), they are slow, and handle like crap (yes, I have driven them), and FWD with run flats makes it an immediate deal breaker. It is also very unoriginal, I spot at least 20 a day around here.

 

A fully loaded MINI comes in at >$38k, which is a fair price for what it offers. The car definitely comes with some nice bonuses which you have listed, of course I wouldn't expect anything less out of a ~$40k BMW and Subaru is way behind the times with convenience features. We considered the car because my wifes mother had one and my wife really liked it, but in the end since it would be our daily driver and we always car pool with me driving, she didn't want to make me suffer. The spec.b's alcantara holds you better than cloth, and the spec.b comes with VDC and AWD for traction control and it is not going to matter with those run flat dunlop tires anyhow. Subaru also has MINI beat in reliability and saftey, saving you money over time and allowing you to walk away from that hit and run.

 

It is not a bad car, but they are very different cars, and I don't even see why they are being compared here. Way off topic. If the thread was titled, is the MINI Cooper S worth the extra $$$ I would have voted no.

[Vimy101]

That is why I refrained to making a claim of world class suspension.

 

You should have because it is.

 

It is a true GT suspension that delivers generally excellent motoring for North American driving conditions where 15000 miles per year is common. Great on the freeway and much above average tossibility and torque. And it's AWD!

 

Contiextremes going on tomorrow.

[unorthodox]

they are slow, and handle like crap (yes, I have driven them).

 

You must have driven a non-S as a Cooper S, even without sport package (I got the sport package) will out handle a LGT or B anyday. No understeer, no vague response to steering input and no need to install steering rack bushing to firm the steering up.

 

FWD with run flats makes it an immediate deal breaker.

 

The first gen runflats I will agree left much to be desired but the second generation are night and day better. I also plan on not running run-flats during the summer so its far from a deal breaker. Honestly not enough people really have a grip on handling and handling dynamics, I mean everyone hated the stock LGT tires and I thoough they were good for street use. I took a little auto-cross experience (10 years) and kept them at 3-4 PSI under max all the time and they ran great.

 

It is also very unoriginal, I spot at least 20 a day around here.

 

Now you are right about there being quite a few out there but there will not be tons like mine (dark silver, black roof & black hood stripes). Not to mention as far as the total package is concerned there might never be another like mine since there are a couple million possible combinations

 

 

A fully loaded MINI comes in at >$38k, The spec.b's alcantara holds you better than cloth, and the spec.b comes with VDC and AWD for traction control and it is not going to matter with those run flat dunlop tires anyhow. Subaru also has MINI beat in reliability and saftey, saving you money over time and allowing you to walk away from that hit and run.

 

Where do you live that a loaded Mini comes in at $38K. Unless you are a nutcase and take every option and make it a convertible you'll never get it that high. My car stickers a smidge over $28K and even though I did not pay that the car gives you oodles for the money.

 

It is not a bad car, but they are very different cars, and I don't even see why they are being compared here. Way off topic.

 

If you read my quote all I'm trying to show is the B is not worth the money because it does not offer nearly enough all around. Yes if you really fall in love with the B the price will not matter but when you have an open mind. If you objectively compare what a regular GT offers versus what you have to pay to get the B the B is far from worth it. That was the point of the comparison with the MINI (grape) versus the B (apple) as it opens peoples minds to reality not emotion. So its far from way off topic. Any discussion that makes people think, especially out of the box, not matter how far fetched is what leads to truly educated decisions!

 

Respectfully,

Shawn

[Vimy101]

I should mention that I always run my tires well above OEM placard.

 

The Spec is an all weather vehicle and a much different size. That the former gets gets compared favourably to a light weight FWD vehicle under optimum driving conditions is testament to how good the LGT platorm is.