Subaru, Toyota will build small sports car

[SLegacy99]

The Prius has 96.2 cu. ft. of interior volume

 

The Legacy sedan has 90.9 cu. ft.

[IwannaSportSedan]

If the legacy were a 5-door hatchback, it would more than make up that 5 cubic foot difference. The new impreza has as much or more interior room than the legacy, that doesn't make it a mid-size or full-size car.

 

Not to mention the prius being nearly 3 inches taller at the roof on the outside, but only an inch and a half or less margin of headroom inside. Legacy isn't lacking in head-room, but you can't exactly pack cargo right under the headliner. Yet it still gets counted as volume.

 

I didn't think the Legacy was completely mid-size anyway, I just thought it looked bigger than the Prius. I guess I was wrong about that. But it is still smaller than the "Mid-size" camry, just as the Legacy is smaller than Camry, as well.

 

I am not sure why we are continuing to belabor the intricacies of the prius anyway.

 

I want to know more about the Toyota/Subaru sport coupe.

 

Mostly, I want to see what it might look like, and more credibly than some artist's rendering.

[mattejb]

IwannaSportSedan, I am on your side. I would love for subaru to make a kick-ass 300+hp 3door. Something like the B11S (I know is not a 3door) would be great. The only thing is if Toyota is getting the 2.0 200+hp RWD and the 300+hp Awd version there is no reason Subaru should get the same car redressed. They need to use the platform for a market they are not already collecting money in. I think a high performance Hybrid would do the trick. The 3door 300+hp AWD Boxer would still be there for you buy.

 

Also just because I have only been a member here for 2years does not make me a newbie. I belong to several other subaru forums. Maybe since your such the expert I'll see you on those other forums.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Your post count belies your experience, and your post content didn't express an experienced level of civility. How would I know what other forums you are on, or why it would matter what other forums either of us are on?

 

If you are so widely and well versed, you should know that it is quite bad form to insult people by the condescension you showed. "I can't help you"... I didn't ask for your help. Didn't really hear anyone ask for your help. The subject of your post was not inappropriate, but your tone certainly was, especially when it persisted.

 

If you have been here for two years, you should know this isn't my first turn around the block, my post count shows that, anyone who's been here for that long has read most of those posts. They also show that, whether you agree with me or you don't, I am not the moron you tried to treat me as. That sort of treatment never makes many freinds.

 

I consider the issue closed and resolved. I won't hold a grudge, and we can move on with the actual discussion.

I also won't let that sort of tone pass again if I come across it in the future, toward any member of the forum, from any member of the forum.

 

-------

Now that that issue is closed.... on the topic:

 

There is no indication that a high-performance coupe hybrid they way you describe it would work in the marketplace, OR would be within a feasible realm to be sold for an appropriate price. None of the other hybrids in that price class are as high-performance as you describe. Honda "tried" a higher-performance Hybrid Accord than the Prius' performance level, and it failed, and even it was as high-performance as you describe theoretically.

 

Subaru can't afford to gamble from the bottom 1% of the market. LOSING that gamble will all but guarantee that they end up worse than they are now, or simply gone. Toyota has the reputation, and the capital and marketshare position to attempt to market such a vehicle, and take the risk, and initial cost period to see if it will fly. IF this car were somehow magically a hybrid car, it would make more sense as a Toyota, both from a brand-recognition standpoint, AND from a financial backing and risk standpoint.

 

A simple high-performance AWD sport coupe can be marketed and sold for an appropriate MSRP price, and help get performance buyers into the showroom, a move that even hyundai is trying, with their Genesis coupe, among many other coupes coming to market after the coupe-drought since the mid-90s.

 

And it is not as if no one ever has straight re-branded a Toyota. Hell, PONTIAC does it, with the Vibe.

 

The only thing for Subaru to do to market a "kick-ass 300-hp 3-door coupe" is to choose to do it. IF this is a true topic, development is already underway.

 

If Toyota does this sport coupe, and Subaru doesn't... It may not prevent a sale to me, but all the more reason to do a little personal de-badging. It is going to be built in a Subaru plant, possibly painted in Subaru colors, anyway.

 

I know Toyota has had AWD Celicas in the past... but this is supposedly a Subaru boxer and longitudinal AWD, and it should wear a Subaru badge, as such. It seems like Subaru is contributing a LOT to this project, at expense of them developing other new Subaru product that they are starting to need. All we've seen in terms of concepts lately from Subaru is a modified outback, called the Exiga. Hardly a ground-breaking clean-sheet design, OR anything that is coming out into the showrooms soon. B5-TPH was a pie-in-the-sky concept that didn't translate into a 3-door Impreza, as was rumored at the time. The styling isn't even THAT close, since they ditched the schnozz-grille, and didn't build a three-door.

 

But what does this toyota car rumored to have? Let's see:

Legacy/Impreza adapted chassis and suspension

Boxer engines, possibly turbos associated

optional Subaru AWD transaxle and driveline components, sans rear diff.

Probably a good amount of the cooling, hydraulic braking, and electrical control systems from said subaru chassis'

Manufactured in a japanese Subaru facility (Gunma, where all Imprezas and Foresters are built, even for US market, IIRC)

developed with the help of Subaru engineers, as well as Toyota's engineers.

 

What is left??? interior and exterior styling? That makes all the difference between a Subaru and Toyota? I remind all of the Pontiac Vibe... a new grille, a new brand. Easily changed.

 

BTW, I was not so impressed with the B11S concept, and it is looking aged already. The Guigiaro-designed SVX or even the GC8 2.5RS is a more compelling precedent for a newly updated subaru coupe than the B11S's styling. Twin turbo H6 still sounds enticing, though.

 

In the end, it will probably bear a Toyota resemblance, though, probably to late Celica GTS, or old AE86 Corolla. I can't say that that would be a bad thing, if done right... Which is why I want to see a styling rendition that is more confident than a possibly fictional artist's rendering.

[chenc544]

Manufactured in a japanese Subaru facility (Gunma, where all Imprezas and Foresters are built, even for US market, IIRC)

 

I hope this part is not true. As weak as the US dollar is right now, I think it would be very hard to meet the price target of this car if it's made in Japan. Since the car is going to be based on the Legacy platform I would think the Indiana plant would be feasible as well.

[IwannaSportSedan]

The rumors have stated that it would be built alongside the Imprezas and Foresters at Gunma. Any currency inflation effects will likely affect those models, too.

 

I wouldn't mind if it were built at SIA, in Indiana, but do they have the capactity, between Camrys, Tribecas, Outbacks, and Legacys that are already produced there?

 

And, can it be worth while to produce the car in two places, rather than importing it from a single japanese point of origin.

 

I agree, though, the dollar value is putting a hurt on all sorts of things.

[SLegacy99]

Just FYI: Audi isn't going to import the Q7 hybrid because of the weak dollar. Just not worth it to them, so there's at least on casulty and I heard the TDi version is facing the same ax.

[chenc544]

Well, maybe Subaru/Toyota will come to the conclusion that it will be cheaper to expand the SIA plant... I get the feeling it will become increasingly difficult for the car makers to import relatively affordable cars into the USDM. More expensive models could probably take the price hike, but in the affordable segment it will be harder to compete if you have to raise the price because of the exchange rate.

[praedet]

All Subarus are technically made in Japan, so the currency difference have an effect no matter what

[chenc544]

I'm not so sure about that. I know SIA is technically "Japanese soil" and they pay duty/tax and what not. But I'm sure they are still paying the workers there in USD not JPY, same goes for utilities and etc. So the cost of building cars there shouldn't be effected by the exchange rate, right?

[praedet]

From what we were told on the tour of SIA, price to produce there is exactly the same a one produced in Japan...

[SLegacy99]

I bet it would be cheaper if they didn't ship empty parts containters back to Japan. But their Zero Landfill policy is quite admirable.

[mattejb]

I bet it would be cheaper if they didn't ship empty parts containters back to Japan. But their Zero Landfill policy is quite admirable.

 

They save money by doing this. Being green/sustainable is also about saving money.

 

Some Subyota News:

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/News/Sub...+to+coupe.html

 

Apparently Australia doesn't want it if it isn't AWD.

IwannaSportSedan, looks like you might not want the subaru version after all(B11s).

I would take a "B11S" with a direct injected H3.6. Though I would still prefer something more like the Turbo Parallel Hybrid powering the car.

[SLegacy99]

1. I have always loved the design of the B11S concept.

 

2. I don't understand why they are under the impression that it will be RWD only afterall the info coming out has been talking about a coupe with the option of STi power and AWD.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Subaru says no to coupe

Bruce Newton | March 26, 2008

In a scoop story in Wheels, on sale today, insiders confirm that Toyota and Subaru are jointly working on a new rear-wheel drive sports car. But Subaru Australia's boss says he doesn't want it here.

 

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/wheels/wheelsed.nsf/e4708d9b1feab2d7ca256c59000e7e17/a81439e30bd172abca257417007b1b2b/Body/0.84?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/wheels/wheelsed.nsf/e4708d9b1feab2d7ca256c59000e7e17/a81439e30bd172abca257417007b1b2b/Body/0.653E?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg

 

Subaru Australia’s commitment to symmetrical all-wheel drive has killed off any prospect of a new rear-wheel drive sports coupe coming here.

 

As reported in Wheels’ April issue, on-sale today, the sports coupe is a joint project between Subaru and shareholder Toyota.

 

It will employ normally-aspirated 2.0-litre boxer engines, only power the rear wheels and be built by Subaru for both companies with different exterior sheetmetal. Subaru’s version is said to be based on its 2003 B11-S concept (pictured).

 

According to the scoop story compiled by Wheels’ Japan correspondent Peter Nunn, the car is tipped to start production in 2010 with pricing in Japan starting at a red-hot $A21,000.

 

But Subaru Australia managing director Nick Senior was quick to pour cold water on the car’s prospects in Australia: “From my understanding of it, it doesn’t fit within our brand strategy,” he said.

 

A key issue is the car’s rear-wheel drive. Since committing to a boxer engine and all-wheel drive model strategy 10 years ago, Subaru Australia’s sales have continually increased. In 2007 it sold a record 38,445 vehicles and was ninth biggest seller overall.

 

But that wasn’t Senior’s only reason to reject the coupe, also citing the failure of the Nissan 200SX and other coupes in the past.

 

 

 

“How many two-door coupes have been highly successful?” he asked.

 

“We have an iconic car which is Impreza WRX and WRX STI. They are four door, turbocharged vehicles which aren’t Johnny-come-latelies like so many of the competitors we see pop up from time to time.

 

“It is said ‘these are the new WRXes’ and lo and behold they disappear within a few years.”

 

The other local concern would undoubtedly be badge engineering. In the days when General Motors had a share of Subaru’s parent Fuji Heavy Industries, the Australians successfully fought off an attempt to rebadge the popular Forester compact SUV as a Holden and the Holden Commodore large car as a Subaru.

 

The Saab 9-4X – a rebodied and rebadged Impreza WRX - was also successfully resisted by Senior and his team.

 

“It gets back to the whole debate about badge engineering and we aren’t interested in that,” Senior confirmed.

 

“But more realistically and more credibly, our DNA is boxer engines and all-wheel drive. I haven’t seen that lose impetus in the last 10 years, so why should we stray from that strategy?”

 

Actually, I can see this. If it isn't AWD at all, it doesn't really fit in Subaru's lineup.

 

I thought previous rumors had whispered that there would be AWD versions. THAT would belong on a Subaru lot.

 

RWD is excellent news, compared to FWD, but it isn't "Subaru". Subaru *IS* AWD, not second-fiddle to other RWD players, like Infiniti/Nissan, Honda's S2000, Miata, Sol-sky, or others. Mitsubishi refuses to make the eclipse AWD, rather FWD. Subaru can and should be the AWD sport coupe option. The DSM coupes no longer exist, either. The market niche is open.

 

"Different sheetmetal" is an interesting comment. Why would it be Legacy based, with different sheetmetal between Toyota and Subaru variants, but not be AWD for the Subaru? If different sheetmetal, why not leave the Legacy/Impreza chassis intact enough for AWD to continue to fit?

 

I don't entirely agree with the comment questioning how many coupes have been successful, though. 22b and WRX GC8-chassis coupes that were available in the rest of the world, are still sought out, as well as 2.5RS coupes in the US. SVXs are still popular with subaru fans, as well as coupes from lots of other makers. His memory only seems to go back to about 2001, where turbo Subarus have been only 4-door or 5 door bodystyles. The term Johnny-come-lately doesn't apply when coupes are as old as the 4-doors, and the 4-doors solely survive... lately.

 

To cite the failure of the 200SX, and other non-subaru coupes is an inaccurate view of history. There was not a single coupe that survived the 1990s era unscathed. From the toyota corolla, to the BMW 8-series. None. They are/were either gone, on hiatus, or survived severely compromised. Thanks to SUVs, which Subaru is the only one to stave-off from taking over their lineup, until recently succumbing to that trend, and some would argue too late, anyway.

 

The failure of coupes was fickle marketing and fashion, not a deficiency of the products themselves. Now they are starting to return, and again, Subaru is well behind the curve so far, especially if they think the B11S concept is the styling they want to bring forward.

 

This guy seems to resist any dilution of the Subaru brand, and that is understandable, but if you don't adapt, it is hard to stay ahead.

 

As for the B11S... it isn't a really a coupe at all. Not even as close to a coupe as the RX8 is. The rear doors are big, and awkward, The rear quarter and rear window shapes are awkward to say the least. AND the schozz-style is now gone, and the underbite front air dam is not so good, either. The B5-TPH was closer to a coupe, as a hatchback, but even uglier yet.

 

It would be better to style it as a current-bodystyle Legacy coupe at this point, but they aren't going to do that.

 

I am not sure how well the B11s, even to lose two side doors, would fit into Subaru's current or near future style AND it would be about as warmly received as the 08 Impreza. Which is to say cold as ice. Maybe it would fit perfectly well with the Tribeca and Impreza, and not be very attractive, either.

 

If the toyota one looks sleeker, it'll be the favorite. AWD and a turbo STI powerplant can be transplanted in later, if the chassis is intact enough to allow front half-shafts.

 

Subaru REALLY needs to break it's ugly-streak. A sport coupe will fail without an attractive look. Otherwise, what is the point? You might as well have the practicality of 4 or 5 doors if it is going to be ugly anyway.

 

The otherwise attractive Hyundai Genesis Coupe is promising, but even it is held back by it's styling. The droopy quarter windows, and awkwardly small grille and odd front fascia treatments all serve to uglify what could be a real winner. Styling is more and more important the less practical and more sporty or luxurious the car becomes. The less essential the purchase, the more important it sells itself on compelling emotional appeal. A sport coupe isn't an essential purchase. Essential purchase cars are economy cars, mainstream sedans, or utility vehicles, that perform a function more practical than being "fun to drive".

[IwannaSportSedan]

i am sorry, but a WRX is not a substitute for a kickin' little sport coupe with a turbo engine and AWD (which this rumored car might not even get...). I for one would NEVER buy a new WRX. I am looking forward to a powerful, quick sleek and good looking coupe. Not a boulevard cruiser, nor a hunchback 5-door.

 

Who exactly do you think bought AWD-Turbo DSM cars, like Eagle Talon? Or the 2.5RS Coupe? or even the RWD-Turbo Mustang SVO a decade before those? It wasn't 50yr-olds at the time. it was 20-30-somethings who wanted something sporty, quick, and grippy. The 50-year olds bought Lincoln Mark VIII, or something like it. That is not what we are going for here.

 

And if someone just wants a nice "touring car" why not just buy a sporty sedan? or a big new FWD Accord Coupe? a touring car doesn't NEED to be a coupe, or particularly light, or even RWD or AWD. Just comfortable and quick/fast enough to be a slight bit confident. Otherwise it is just a luxury car, or even an appliance like Camry.

 

A light-weight sporty car needs to be, well... light, quick, and good looking. Things coupes are really good at, if done well. AWD like Subarus have only makes it grippier, and sweeter, although RWD is purer.

[chenc544]

Subaru needs a 2 door, 4 seater coupe based on the current Legacy with the 08 front-end, H6 and a choice between a 5EAT or a 6MT. One trim level - SpecB with the Alcantara seats.

 

None of these joint RWD toyota projects...

 

Why do I say H6? Because the target demographic of a Legacy coupe buyer would probably be a 50yr-old male wanting a nice touring coupe but is fed up with BMW and Audi reliability. The younger buyers can have the WRX.

 

I suspect a 50-yr old male wanting a large touring coupe can careless about AWD, FWD or RWD. In that case there are already offerings from Accord coupe, Solara, Altima coupe, G6 coupe and etc without going to the Germen car makes. And between Audi, BMW and Mercedes I think there are already too many large/luxury touring coupes. This is not even taking into account the muscle car class of Mustang, Camaro, Challenger and even Genesis coupe. I doubt Subaru will be able to make any headway in this market.

[mattejb]

It all comes back to opening a new market. That TPH engine could do the trick. At least as an option vs the H6.

[SLegacy99]

Im game. Beat the CR-X to the punch. Rumored 250 hp it is.

[BigT]

Is there any chance this thing would come out as a scion?

[IwannaSportSedan]

Perhaps, but I think Toyota wants the street cred, and Scion is more of a tuner econobox. emphasis on "box"

[mattejb]

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9128/2010subarub11ski2.jpg

I did a chop.

[IwannaSportSedan]

What people buy obviously varies from place to place. I don't see a lot of 20-30 year olds driving BMW or Audi coupes. It's usually the 40+ types. Subaru needs a Legacy coupe.

 

Subaru does not have the capital, brand equity, or market position to go after BMW or Audi coupes. They don't even have the resources to go after their SEDANS with the Legacy they already have. Nowhere even CLOSE, except the 2.0T A4 sedan, but not the A5 or 3-series. The people that buy them are not likely to buy a Subaru Legacy, even as a coupe, due to brand image. The most Subaru could hope to do with such a car is to undercut the G37c, and have an AWD alternative to the Genesis coupe, with a turbo H4, and H6. But that is not what they are talking about doing in these rumors, and no rumors or anything else suggests that Subaru are going to develop a Legacy-trim-level and sized coupe.

 

Subaru needs to concentrate on Subaru customers and Subaru products, not some bastard child Scion joint-designed by Toyota and Subaru. I smell another Saab 9-2 in the works.

 

This isn't being designed as an economy car Scion. This is using the chassis from our Legacy and shortening it, and likely Legacy's 2.0i/2.5i engine, as well. Hardly a "bastard child", although probably a mix-breed. They aren't even saying that it will be turbocharged. I give that about a week, and someone will put a turbocharged Subaru engine in this car that soon after leaving the dealer lot.

 

The young guys buy the WRX for the AWD and because they can mod them for relitavely cheap. A small sports car (Pontiac solstice size?) that isn't based on the Impreza is not going to attract people to the Subaru brand.

 

What makes you think that a sleek, lighter, better-looking, two door or three-door coupe, with the same engine, layout, and base chassis design as the Impreza isn't going to be just as tuneable, and more desireable?

No one said it was going to be a two-seater, like the kappa-cars. This is probably going to be closer to the size of the newest, larger Civic coupe, or Acura RSX or Toyota Celica GTS. But not FWD, thankfully. RWD at least, AWD optional if we Subaru fans are lucky.

 

BTW, if they are smart, they'll use the newer multi-link rear suspension design, rather than the Legacy's rear suspension, and the chassis will be very, very closely related to the current impreza's chassis, and probably built on the same manufacturing line, which is also directly descended from the Legacy. It essentially will be an impreza-based coupe, badged as a toyota, and either RWD/AWD, or just RWD.

 

If Subaru is going to start making cars under another brand, then they better do what Honda and Toyota have done with Acura and Lexus.

 

They've already started development. This isn't the spit-ball stage. They aren't building a premium level car, they are building a mainstream $20-30k sport compact coupe. Not an Audi, not a BMW, not even a 1-series. They are not opening a Subaru-premium brand. They are building a Toyota coupe. MAYBE we'll be lucky and see it as a Subaru coupe, as well, after all of Subaru's hard work and contribution to the project.

 

Yes, Toyota probably needs to bring back the Celica, but Subaru shouldn't be making it.

 

Subaru IS making it by all accounts, and a year's worth of news reports of technical product development. No way around that now. It is just a matter of whether Subaru will reap any of the benefits for itself, or just leave them all to Toyota.

 

I think there deserves to be painted WRB with a pleiades badge on it, and AWD. A 2.5RS replacement, at a minimum, and aside from Toyota's new Celica replacement.

[chenc544]

NA engine for this car doesn't make a whole lot of sense. EJ20 NA makes about 150 hp. With this thing basing on the Legacy platform it would probably weight in 2900-3000 lbs range with RWD. 150 hp is not a lot of power for something weighting that much. It's going to be very hard to compete with the likes of Civic Si, GTI or MS3 in the same price range, RWD or not. Adding a turbo and have it at ~200hp is only way that this formula would work IMHO. Kinda like the Hyundai Genesis coupe but much lighter.

 

I can easily see where this car fits into Toyota's lineup but I don't see how it fits in Subaru's. A $20-25k RWD version makes sense and even a $30k AWD GT-Four version would work well for Toyota. On the other hand, any car for Subaru would have to be AWD, unless SOA decides to abandon it's AWD image. A $25k turbo AWD coupe would take sales away from the WRX and a $30k one away from the STI. Unless Toyota is footing the whole bill for the development, which is possible, I don't see a net benefit for Subaru to put out a version of its own.

[IwannaSportSedan]

So in other words, a Legacy coupe...

 

So why don't they just offer an Impreza 2-door like the 2.5rs again?

 

Adapted Legacy chassis, with Impreza's newer rear suspension (likely) and a shortened wheelbase... Basically it IS an impreza 2-door. The 08 Impreza 4 and 5 doors are modified legacy chassis with newer rear suspension.

 

That is what I have been saying pretty much the whole time. New 2.5RS.

 

I'm still not sure exactly what this is going to be or who they plan on going after with it. If it is in the 20-25k range, then they must be chasing the TSX/Tiburon crowd.

 

Being Subaru, it will be AWD, not RWD. The typical Subaru sport-compact buyer will be clamoring for a turbocharged engine. This puts the price in line with the Legacy GT or the WRX.

 

The thing is, Scion tC fully loaded, Tiburon, Civic SI coupe, and even bigger coupes like Mitsu Eclipse, Accord, Solara, are all front wheel drive.

 

TSX, Impreza, Legacy, Mazda 3 and 6, S40, and others are all 4 and 5 door cars. It isn't exactly apropos to compare to a two or three door coupe. People buy those for different practical, or lack of practical reasons.

 

This car will not be FWD, nor a 4-door. That gives it instant performance credibility over both of those, and will almost automatically be more tunable and modifiable as a RWD or real AWD platform, as well as being primed for almost ALL of the existing Legacy/WRX and even some STI aftermarket. This is going against Genesis Coupe, and 370Z, which are both heavier cars, and Z is likely only 2 seats, where the Toyota/Subaru offering will be 2+2, and lighter weight and smaller outside dimensions than Genesis, which is aimed at the also-large Mustang.

 

A sport compact in the 20-25k range probably won't be turbo. If they are targeting young buyers, then they have tough competition to win buyers who already associate with another brand culture. If it does become a turbo, then I feel that it will be lacking many other nifty space-shuttle like lit up gadgetry inside to keep the price down.

 

If this thing ends up being branded a Toyota, this does nothing to get people to buy a Subaru in 3-5 years when they want to move up.

 

I agree, and the rumors have said that this is going to be a lower-power, non turbocharged car. I for one would be clamoring for a turbo. That could be one thing that Subaru has over the toyota version.

 

The 20-25k price range will probably be appropriate for the RWD, non-turbo Toyota version, which makes sense. With a special AWD GT4 model, if they want.

 

If the rumors of a Subaru model along side are true, it could go $24-28k, with AWD standard, and optional turbo. It would be alongside the Impreza, and Legacy 2.5i, but less expensive than the Legacy GT Limited (non-limited is gone) and would sell differently by being a coupe.

 

Again, I would ditch the impreza/WRX sedan. It is boring, and truly is redundant and inferior compared to the Legacy 2.5i and 2.5GT. They both offer the same basic configuration, with the Legacy being better looking, and more refined.

 

I would bring this coupe on line along side the Impreza 5-door. (and I would re-design the 5 door not to be so ugly, but that is just me.)

 

NA engine for this car doesn't make a whole lot of sense. EJ20 NA makes about 150 hp. With this thing basing on the Legacy platform it would probably weight in 2900-3000 lbs range with RWD. 150 hp is not a lot of power for something weighting that much. It's going to be very hard to compete with the likes of Civic Si, GTI or MS3 in the same price range, RWD or not. Adding a turbo and have it at ~200hp is only way that this formula would work IMHO. Kinda like the Hyundai Genesis coupe but much lighter.

 

I have a feeling that the 2.0i is going to be japanese-market only, and the US market car will get the 2.5i from the Impreza, Forester, and Legacy.

 

Civic SI, GTI, and MS3 are all PREMIUM trim lines of their respective models. And I would imagine that a similar high-trim line of a Toyota coupe would have more power, and possibly AWD. Regular Civics, Rabbits, and the base Mazda3 don't have as much power as their premium variants.

 

It is possible that they are keeping a tight lid on a performance variant, possibly even turbocharged, to make a big splash when this thing is finally announced. Keep in mind that this is all rumor and conjecture at this point, other than there being so much chatter, that it isn't a figment of imagination. It exists, but Toyota, nor Subaru have said thing one about anything official yet.

 

I can easily see where this car fits into Toyota's lineup but I don't see how it fits in Subaru's. A $20-25k RWD version makes sense and even a $30k AWD GT-Four version would work well for Toyota. On the other hand, any car for Subaru would have to be AWD, unless SOA decides to abandon it's AWD image. A $25k turbo AWD coupe would take sales away from the WRX and a $30k one away from the STI. Unless Toyota is footing the whole bill for the development, which is possible, I don't see a net benefit for Subaru to put out a version of its own.

 

RWD will not work for Subaru, and the Australian exec that was interviewed in the above linked Wheels Magazine article said as much, and I don't see that changing in other markets. SUBARU IS AWD.

 

A $25k-28k Subaru turbocharged coupe IS essentially a WRX with a new body style, and could even be marketed as an Impreza-line coupe, it is SO closely related to it. Probably even more closely than the Genesis Coupe and Sedan are.

 

If it takes away a couple of ugly hunchback 5-door, or boring-as-ever 4-door sales, it will be a small price to pay for a unique product on the market. An AWD, Turbocharged sport compact coupe. NO ONE ELSE HAS ONE!!! Not even MITSUBISHI!!! How would that NOT create a stampede of sport compact buyers into Subaru dealers? Especially if it is clear that the aftermarket is already in place, for the WRX, Legacy GT, and STI, and can almost instantly adapt to this car.

 

This car should attract new buyers from other brands that Subaru hasn't seen since the US introduction of the WRX in 2001, coincidently when the AXED the 2.5RS coupe. Gaining sales is great, even if some people choose to buy a coupe version over a 5-door version, which isn't a "lost" sale, if both cars are Subaru cars. If Toyota does it, or Subaru BOTCHES it, Subaru will lose sales to Toyota.

 

How many buyers are NOT considering the WRX now, because of it's body style, or it's ugly design? How many sport compact fans prefer coupes, and don't buy Subaru, or Toyota, because of that? How many people over the age of 25 would LOVE to have such a car as either a fun daily commuter, OR a weekend tuner sporty car?

 

Count me as one... Not sure whether I would keep the Legacy as a daily driver and tune up a sport coupe, or Keep the Legacy nice for longer trips, and slog on a lighter coupe every day instead.

 

If such a coupe would have any bearing on what sort of Legacy I would own in the future... it might somewhat make me more willing to drive a smooth yet still sport-capable H6 Legacy (hopefully with a manual trans), and leave the screaming turbo duty to a lighter, even sportier coupe.