Subaru, Toyota will build small sports car

[RobE]

no thanks.

[erikvcl]

Good call, I think you are onto something. I did see in a post on jalopnik that the vehicle will be 4wd and will be a hybrid system. The addition of the instantaneous torque properties of the electric motor will def help the little 4-banger get up to speed. Also the engine is rumoured to be less than 2.0L but fuji sourced. N0t sure how valid, but it looks like toyota may be trying to bring back the old corolla levins of old.

 

Oh God no, not a frickin hybrid. Let's hope this hybrid hysteria passes before this car comes out.

[BigT]

Yeah dude we might have to wait like a good 20 to 30 years before the 'hysteria' passes

[BDII]

Celica clone with 2.5L boxer.

[SLegacy99]

Celica clone with 2.5L boxer.

2.5L boxer TPH please.

[Jedi Pimp]

2.0 boxer and RWD please

[BDII]

AWD Supra with H6 TT

 

/thread

[erikvcl]

AWD Supra with H6 TT

 

/thread

 

I don't mean any offense, but I'm not sure so many of you favor the H6. The Subaru is a front-engined car already and the H6 makes the problem worse. At least with the H4 + turbo, the engine is lighter.

 

Front-engined cars don't handle particularly well by nature; symmetrical AWD requires this configuration (think Subaru and Audi). Although Subarus and Audis can be made to handle well, they can never be mid-engined (FMR) like BMWs due to the AWD.

 

So I ask my question. Why do you want a front-engined AWD sports car? I know that that rally cars are sports cars, so I mean pavement-type sports cars. I don't get it. Wouldn't you want a sports car (again, pavement-type, not rally) to be mid-engined (either FMR or RMR)? I sure would.

 

The Mark IV Supra was one of the best handling production cars. Why add AWD into the mix? If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Well, in Toyota's case, bring back the Mark IV.

[Obsessotron]

Yeah dude we might have to wait like a good 20 to 30 years before the 'hysteria' passes

 

I am not so sure, even though Actors and Politicians are quick to trumpet the greatness of hybrids, those engines are expensive to make and produce a considerable amount of waste in the production process vs. your average internal combustion engine.

[SLegacy99]

I am not so sure, even though Actors and Politicians are quick to trumpet the greatness of hybrids, those engines are expensive to make and produce a considerable amount of waste in the production process vs. your average internal combustion engine.

Haha. The same could be said about the space shuttle.

[DukeTrout]

I don't mean any offense, but I'm not sure so many of you favor the H6. The Subaru is a front-engined car already and the H6 makes the problem worse. At least with the H4 + turbo, the engine is lighter.

 

Front-engined cars don't handle particularly well by nature; symmetrical AWD requires this configuration (think Subaru and Audi). Although Subarus and Audis can be made to handle well, they can never be mid-engined (FMR) like BMWs due to the AWD.

 

So I ask my question. Why do you want a front-engined AWD sports car? I know that that rally cars are sports cars, so I mean pavement-type sports cars. I don't get it. Wouldn't you want a sports car (again, pavement-type, not rally) to be mid-engined (either FMR or RMR)? I sure would.

 

The Mark IV Supra was one of the best handling production cars. Why add AWD into the mix? If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Well, in Toyota's case, bring back the Mark IV.

 

1. The Boxer design keeps the engine nice and low. 2. Subaru's layout places the engine over the front axle, not in front of it like Audi's. 3. The 3.0 H6 is less than 1 cm longer (iirc) and a few kilograms heavier (iirc) than the 2.5 block.

 

The reason to throw AWD in is because, you know all that burn out that Mark IVs do on the track? They'd be spending that time making forward progress with AWD. On twisties, the feeling of having the front wheels pull you through a turn is really fantastic.

[DukeTrout]

Haha. The same could be said about the space shuttle.

 

Which is also marked for obsolescence...

[erikvcl]

Haha. The same could be said about the space shuttle.

 

The space shuttle is a waste too. It never achieved its design goal of being a reusable space vehicle that required little upkeep between flights. Due to the Air Force's requirements, it had to be bigger than the original design specified (to carry some kind of weapon the Air Force wanted to put in space; ironically, this capability was never used by the Air Force). This is why it is so huge and needed solid-rocket boosters. Of course, the huge carrying capacity helps with transporting crap to install on the ISS (another waste of money, in my opinion).

 

NASA needs to cut its losses on the shuttle and develop a next-gen space vehicle ASAP.

[JOE_1985]

then id would have to be rwd

 

71-85 frame lay out

 

im still laughing at

 

"look my hybrid can get 40mpg"

 

vs

 

"hey look my 87 corolla is getting 40mpg"

[SLegacy99]

NASA needs to cut its losses on the shuttle and develop a next-gen space vehicle ASAP.

I agree, but it was a starter vehicle. The technology takes time to advance, just like it has with the Atlas, Saturn, Gemini rockets. The same is true with hybrid automotive techonology. It needs time to advance.

Look at how well hybrid locomotives run and how fuel efficient they are. They've had more refinment time.

[SLegacy99]

"look my hybrid can get 40mpg"

 

vs

"hey look my 87 corolla is getting 40mpg"

:lol: And how long does that 87 Corolla take to hit 60 MPH? And how much does it pollute while doing it?:lol:

 

Take a second to think about it.

[erikvcl]

:lol: And how long does that 87 Corolla take to hit 60 MPH? And how much does it pollute while doing it?:lol:

 

Take a second to think about it.

 

An 87 Corolla weighs 2300 lbs vs. 3000 for a Prius, so it probably pollutes about the same overall. It's not a matter of technology advancing. The heavy metals in batteries take a tremendous toll on environmental resources to mine, process, and transport. And what to do with those heavy metals once the battery fails?

 

My Legacy is a PZEV -- the same emissions class as the Prius. Why choose Hybrid when you can have that?

 

The point is that if people really cared about the environment, they'd start with the things that make the biggest difference. Forget about this "global warming" hoo haa. Let's get rid of dirty coal power plants for clean coal. Let's build nuclear power plants. Let's put emissions requirements on diesel trucks. Let's do things that actually HELP the environment instead of prancing around with our Prius that can't get better gas mileage than a Geo Metro or Daihatsu Charade.

[SLegacy99]

An 87 Corolla weighs 2300 lbs vs. 3000 for a Prius, so it probably pollutes about the same overall. It's not a matter of technology advancing. The heavy metals in batteries take a tremendous toll on environmental resources to mine, process, and transport. And what to do with those heavy metals once the battery fails?

 

Are you dumb? Weight doesn't determine how much pollution is produced. Trust me buddy, your 87 Corolla doesn't have the emissions control systems you find on a Prius. Even today's Corolla has an air pollution score of 6 vs. the Prius's score of 9. Greenhouse gas emissions are also at 6.5 tons a year, vs. the Prius's 4.0 tons a year.

 

Its an old car. It pollutes and its using more fossil fuel while doing it.

 

 

Id also like to point out that the Prius is a much larger vehicle than an 87 Corolla. Thus you can hold more people/Cargo.

[erikvcl]

Are you dumb? Weight doesn't determine how much pollution is produced. Trust me buddy, your 87 Corolla doesn't have the emissions control systems you find on a Prius. Even today's Corolla has an air pollution score of 6 vs. the Prius's score of 9. Greenhouse gas emissions are also at 6.5 tons a year, vs. the Prius's 4.0 tons a year.

 

Its an old car. It pollutes and its using more fossil fuel while doing it.

 

 

Id also like to point out that the Prius is a much larger vehicle than an 87 Corolla. Thus you can hold more people/Cargo.

 

Yes I'm dumb. And yes, I know that weight doesn't determine emissions.

 

Who cars about the "greenhouse gas emissions" that cars produce? It's the total environmental cost that we should be worried about. Have you seen pictures of copper strip mining? What do you think makes up the windings in the electric motor in the Prius? Copper. I do believe that the total environmental cost of a Prius is more than any other car out there. It's all a matter of what you care about. Do you care only about Co2? Or do you care about other things too. I consider myself a true environmentalist in the fact that I care about the total environmental cost of things.

 

Here's an idea. Don't buy a Prius, but instead plant more trees. In the end, same result. There's even a website that can help you figure out how to do that. I don't see the point in buying an ugly-ass expensive Hybrid car when you can remove the same amount of Co2 from the air by natural means.

 

I'm not going to be hoodwinked into buying a Hybrid car when it's not going to do anything to help the environment.

[SWP-LegacyGT]

doubt a hybrid.

[ScoopMan]

I thought this thread was about a possible cheap Toyota-Subie sportscar. Instead we have dueling tree-huggers. Jeez. Holy thread jack Batman.

 

For performance, AND for the environment, KEEP IT LIGHT!!!! How about a Lotus Elise for half price (or less)? Get rid of every electric motor except for the starter. Crank windows, non power seats, etc. Target weight 2200 lbs.

 

Revive MR2 and stick an H4 behind the seats instead of the Toy S4 mill. Voila! A cheaper and lighter Boxster!

[dasbigunit]

http://www.teslamotors.com/

 

do it.

[SLegacy99]

Yes I'm dumb. And yes, I know that weight doesn't determine emissions.

 

Who cars about the "greenhouse gas emissions" that cars produce? It's the total environmental cost that we should be worried about. Have you seen pictures of copper strip mining? What do you think makes up the windings in the electric motor in the Prius? Copper. I do believe that the total environmental cost of a Prius is more than any other car out there. It's all a matter of what you care about. Do you care only about Co2? Or do you care about other things too. I consider myself a true environmentalist in the fact that I care about the total environmental cost of things.

 

Here's an idea. Don't buy a Prius, but instead plant more trees. In the end, same result. There's even a website that can help you figure out how to do that. I don't see the point in buying an ugly-ass expensive Hybrid car when you can remove the same amount of Co2 from the air by natural means.

 

I'm not going to be hoodwinked into buying a Hybrid car when it's not going to do anything to help the environment.

 

So you are saying that pennies, gutters, etc. made of copper should be outlawed? And not only the Prius uses batteries. So do Laptops, Digital Cameras, MP3 players. etc. Should they all be banned too?

 

The point is that air pollution and greenhouse emissions are a major problem. Automobiles account for more than 30% of that. Right now, hybrid technology is the most viable option to counter that. Plant all the trees you want, its not enough.

[SLegacy99]

http://www.teslamotors.com/

 

do it.

 

Very neat! I like the shifter.

[ScoopMan]