Guest Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Yup, that's my thinking. I4 - RWD only. H4 - AWD only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 FWD, I hope not. That is a deal breaker for me. Boxers could be set as RWD or AWD, but I doubt you could do I4/V8 length motor with AWD intact. For that, it would need a chassis re-design to put a separate front differential along side, or ahead of the engine block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 ^ sorry meant RWD of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 My reasoning behind this is that FHI would not have to bear the full cost of design/production of the car platform/body/chassis, would just supply powertrain for Toyota made Subarus. Toyota would still stick their inline fours avoiding cost of servicing alien engines at their dealerships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 "ask someone you know..." BUT I DONT KNOW ANYONE, SERIOUSLY! WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renesis8 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Branding it as a Toyota would hurt their fleet mileage! Also what if it isn't reliable? Its a new car with new platform. This will be a Subaru, so Toyota can have best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Branding it as a Toyota would hurt their fleet mileage! 1. 2.0L RWD will be more fuel efficient that any 2.4L Corolla/Matrix/Camry 2. The next gen. Prius is "supposed" to be 10 mpg more efficient than the current which will definately bring up their fleet average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I haven't heard USDM Toyota mentioned with any of the diesel news. I wonder if Toyota's solution is just to stick the hybrid drivetrain into everything they sell. I know they have diesels for Europe but I wonder if they have plan to bring them over in the short term. I mean all the German makers are bring the diesels over, Honda and Subaru are planning on it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Toyota is planning on putting hybrid syngergy drive into everything and yes there are diesels coming, but only for the Tacoma. If you think about it, this makes sense. With Toyota being known for its hybrids in American who is going to go to them for a diesel car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reason22 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 "Now THERE is an idea for a RWD subaru powered Toyota. A resurrection of the mid-engined ferrari-junior-style MR2 Turbo, with mid-engined STI turbo boxer power from Subaru, and half the price of the Cayman S, and more powerful." Please Toyobaru, make it happen! I used to be the proud owner of a '91 MR2 Turbo...I loved that car. Not as practical as my also-loved LGT Wagon, but faster than all get-out and handled like a go-kart. Aside from the snap oversteer, it was a perfect two-seater for me. I even loved the front-mount radiator, long metal coolant lines, and 5 gallons of coolant it needed to fill those lines. And it could freaking get 30mpg on the hwy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reason22 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I just made myself cry...I may have to hunt down and buy another MR2 Turbo now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddseth Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 This car exists!!! The only problem is that nobody is willing to manufacture it. Remember the Prodrive P2? http://www.sfsperformance.co.uk/images/news/large/3_1.jpg In theory it would be inexpensive to produce if you mass produce the vehicles and offer it at different levels. It was just a heavily modified R2 unibody with a reversed STi drivetrain! Throw in the 2.0 or 2.5 as the base, get rid of all of the expensive technology that Prodrive put in the P2 (and save it for the expensive high-performance model) and you have a lightweight, reasonably powerful, 4wd mid engined monster. Think, 170 hp, 2200 lbs, 24K; 230 hp turbo, 30K; 350+ hp modified sti motor with antilag and all of Prodrives sweet rally-racing derived technologies, 40K. You have a whole lineup of performance sports coupes that can run with anything from a miata to a cayman s or Z4 M. "Now THERE is an idea for a RWD subaru powered Toyota. A resurrection of the mid-engined ferrari-junior-style MR2 Turbo, with mid-engined STI turbo boxer power from Subaru, and half the price of the Cayman S, and more powerful." Please Toyobaru, make it happen! I used to be the proud owner of a '91 MR2 Turbo...I loved that car. Not as practical as my also-loved LGT Wagon, but faster than all get-out and handled like a go-kart. Aside from the snap oversteer, it was a perfect two-seater for me. I even loved the front-mount radiator, long metal coolant lines, and 5 gallons of coolant it needed to fill those lines. And it could freaking get 30mpg on the hwy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 The P2 is a nice piece of hardware. And I hate to say this about Peter Stevens, but the styling could be much better, especially from someone who face-lifted the Lotus Esprit, and had a hand in the McLaren F1. But who is going to build it if Subaru doesn't? Mitsubishi's concept RA is just a concept. The Eclipse could EASILY have been that car, instead of the boring, heavy V6 front-driver that it is. The EVO drivetrain probably fits that car without much difference save some driveshaft lengths. Audi is building the A5/S5, which is a big, expensive, lux coupe. But they won't sell an A3 3-door in the US. The TT is a bit on the expensive side, as well, and is also front-drive biased, like all transverse VAG haldex cars. The BMW 3-series XI coupes are a welcome addition, again, if you have 40-50k to drop on one. But in the 20-35k segment, the main AWD players, Subaru and Mitsubishi won't go into coupes. Mazda won't really either, the Miata convertible hard top, and the RX8 pseudo-4-door are the closest they get, and are good RWD cars, but not even the Mazdaspeed3 is AWD. C30 isn't getting AWD, either, from Volvo, even though the S40 and others do. I saw an Eagle Talon this morning. The roofline on those cars, around the quarter-window area always kinda irked me just a tiny bit, but on the whole, those were GOOD looking cars for their time, and very slick. The TSi AWD turbo was a beast, but suffered from the issues that plagued chrysler and mitsubishi in terms of quality and build issues. The Eagle ALWAYS looked much better to me than the Eclipse with the bulkier front and rear bumper treatments. The Eagle was sleeker below the belt-line. But where is the new version? Coupes took a major hit around the turn of the century. But they are coming back. Where are the new DSM replacements? Where is the 2.5RS replacement with a turbo engine? These could be done, and could be done VERY WELL. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Here is the spy shot of the testing mule. The exterior sheet metal is obviously a chopped up Legacy. I suppose this means the car will be based on the Legacy platform. Kinda of what a Legacy coupe would look like... Toyota FR >> Cooperating with Subaru >> Internally known as "UPS" >> Will use the EJ20 Boxer 4 as the engine >> They plan on having a normal-spec as well as high-output versions of the car >> High-output version will aim to get more then 100hp/liter; target of 220hp >> Toyota will design the rear-differential; the Subaru rear-diff won't have the capacity to handle the higher-output engine power due to it being designed primarily for 4WD applications >> Transmission will be a 6MT from Aisin Seiki (as found in the Mazda RX-8/MX-5) http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/Doctor__No/MagX-3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Wow, that chop is harsh. Boxer in the chassis. GREAT. That means 2008 STI engine swaps, if not offered from the factory. 220hp high-output??? from a Subaru engine? Turbo that damn thing, Man!!! 350-400hp should be do-able with a twin-scroll turbocharged EJ25x. If the H4 is set too far back for the traditional turbocharger location, an H6 might be do-able without wrecking the weight distribution. Aisin 6-speed from Mazda's lineup could be great. Mazdas are known for nice shift action, and hopefully it will get a good clutch. Rear diff being re-designed is fine, as long as it is offered with a good limited-slip or torque biasing differential element. I don't know why they think the STI differential is weak, though. VDC/DCCD-Auto can send ~90% (IIRC) of torque front or rearward, and the diff can handle that... But I guess we'll see. Styling and weight will be the big issues. It sounds like it might actually be light, if it is based on the subaru chassis, and shortened, and without AWD hardware... Should be less than 3300lbs, possibly even 3000lbs range, which would be great. Toyota styling... this is where things could go awry, and no, I am not even considering that photochop, or cut-down legacy mule. That is probably just a powertrain an systems mule, not any sort of styling indicator. Mark me as waiting with bated breath. I have long wanted a light coupe that mixes the best of subaru power with Mazda handling. AWD is great, but RWD can be fantastic, too, depending on driving conditions. FWD would have been a huge monsterous FAIL. I would have prefered mazda styling over Toyota, but we'll see what we can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Styling and weight will be the big issues. It sounds like it might actually be light, if it is based on the subaru chassis, and shortened, and without AWD hardware... Should be less than 3300lbs, possibly even 3000lbs range, which would be great. This is the part that worries me the most. LGT is about 3300-3400 lbs, so if this is based on the LGT platform I think 3000 lbs is probably doable/reasonable. But it is still heavier than what I would like in this kind of car. IIRC Toyota's original target is something like 2500 lbs. I would be very happy if they can get it down to 2800 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Looks like subaru headlights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Looks like subaru headlights The whole thing is a chopped up Legacy, not just the headlights. It looks like they just chopped off a few inches after the B-pillar and stitched the front and rear back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 That is why I figure it is a drivetrain mule. Simply a chassis cobbled together to test the drivetrain and control systems with. I highly doubt this has ANYTHING to do with what this proposed car will look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddseth Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Keep in mind the actual model will lack a center/front diff, halfshafts, driven hubs, etc., thus further reducing weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I just figured it would be on a Corolla or Celica Chassis since its supposed to be inexpensive. And I like the rumors going around on this thing. Toyota is rumored to be working on the eighth generation of the Celica. This Celica is projected to be made with the help of Subaru (Toyota owns 8.7% of Fuji Heavy Industries). Reports indicate that the new Celica would come in two trims: a sub-$20,000 200 hp front-engine/rear-wheel-drive GT and a 300 hp front-engine/all-wheel-drive GT-4, using a new H engine, respectively. [2] The next generation Toyota Celica will be available in two versions, a Celica GT and Celica GT-4. The GT should be powered by the 2.0-litre boxer and will be rear-wheel-drive, while the GT-4 receives the 300 hp 2.0-litre boxer from the Impreza WRX STI with Subaru's four-wheel-drive (including in-wheel electric motors for added power on the wheels). Further rumours are that Toyota may return to WRC with the new Celica. The Toyota Celica will also have two body stylings, first, a true coupe but also a three-door hatchback. There will not be a five-door hatch since that would directly compete with the Subaru Impreza hatch. The Celica is expected to be built by Subaru at the Gunma plant. Whether the new Celica will ever be available outside of Japan is not yet known Yeah...electric motors...sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Which Corolla chassis would be RWD? Celica hasn't been RWD since the 80's either. The Legacy chassis is solid, and it has been adapted to the Impreza. Including the 2.0/2.5i variants which are fairly inexpensive... And the Chassis won't be much different, if they are considering a GT4 option... Same hubs, same chassis... just different transmission/transaxle, and half-shafts for the front, or not. I am still thinking of an STI/Subaru re-badge job, WRB paint, and an 08 or then current modified STI engine/drivetrain swap. It is inherently cruel and unfair to co-opt Subaru technology, and badge it as a Toyota anything, while depriving Subaru of a coupe in their lineup. Then having the audacity to complain in a public press release about Subaru's lack of return on investment. If they won't do it, I'll do it. Subaru ovals, with 2.5 Turbo RS nameplate and an STI-logo badge on the decklid, and in the grille. Oval-T is going to be pulled off and thrown away. 5x114 hubs, wide forged wheels, Brembos, AVO or APS twin-scroll turbo system on an STI/Legacy GT block, full stainless exhaust, bilstein coilovers, Cusco bracing and anti-roll bars... Maybe even a built, turbo'd H6 with 450hp... You know at least SOMEONE is going to do this, if a Subaru-compatible sleek 3-door fastback coupe arrives. Whether the new Celica will ever be available outside of Japan is not yet known [george lopez voice]DA LOCA "not yet known"![/george lopez voice] If this car becomes something a US buyer can't get, I will be beyond-pissed-off. Of ALL things we don't get, the only thing I have been wanting more than my Legacy, a coupe version of it... Toyota will lose ALL credibility with me, and Subaru will be tagging along behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 It is inherently cruel and unfair to co-opt Subaru technology, and badge it as a Toyota anything, while depriving Subaru of a coupe in their lineup. So is it also cruel and unfair for Subaru to co-opt Daihatsu, which is owned by Toyota, and badge it as the Justy? Toyota is not depriving Subaru of a coupe, Subaru is depriving Subaru of a coupe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Somehow I doubt Subaru is depriving Daihatsu of anything Daihatsu doesn't already have. If Toyota uses Gunma plant capacity on a Subaru-engineered car, with a Subaru boxer engine, and Subaru's AWD (even if it is "optional")... then ONLY badges it as a Toyota, I think that is low. If there is a market for that kind of a car, it should wear a Subaru badge if it has Subaru written all over it otherwise. And I have called out Subaru for not offering this car much sooner. I am not giving Subaru a pass on this, either. But if a Subaru coupe is going to come to market, it should wear the Pleiades badge. Subaru brought a custom bodystyle, the impreza sedan. They could have put forward a Coupe instead, and done better. Instead, they are leaving it to the appliance-vendor Toyota, while Subaru resources are being used to develop it, yet Subaru won't be bringing people into dealerships to get a look at it, and other Subarus. Instead, they are going to let Toyota get the foot traffic, the auto-press coverage, and the kudos for solid Subaru technology and development. Yeah, Good plan, there, Subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTlegacy06 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I think if this trend continues Subaru will go the way of Sega... instead of having its own platform to sell its games, it has loss its platform and any hope of revitalizing it thus they are stuck with only making games. In the same sense Subaru has lost its brand and now its models/engines will be used by other makes (thus Toyota = Nintendo). I blame it all on the badly styled Impreza/Tribeca and the fact that they even made an SUV when the market for SUVs is in decline! It seems Subaru focused more on hatches/wagons rather than a dedicated sports coupe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.