BlackGT Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I've been tuning for the past few weeks with ST, and I've got a few questions, would appreciate it if you guys can help out. Car: 2005 LGT M/T, VF39 with LGT fitment and Perrin LGT TMIC. HFC in the COBB downpipe, SPT exhaust. 1) With my VF39, I can't get the boost higher than 17.5psi tapering to 16psi, even taking the WGDC's up to 95 percent, and making the bleeder (pill) smaller. I have a 15psi actuator I am going to try next, but I think I have seen people tuned to 20 psi on a stock VF39 actuator. 2) For ignition tables I'm running Cobb stg 2 91 oct tables, but I Always run 93 octane fuel. I see a good amount of dynamic advance added in first, second, and third gears, but then as soon as I shift to fourth, I see 5.5-7 degrees of timing removed!!!, even on cool days (shown as negative number). So my log goes from dynamic advance added in the top of third gear, to retarded only 0.2 seconds later. Anybody else ever have this and what do you think the issue is? Did the ECU see some knock during the shift to fourth? It happens every time. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 How did you get an LGT figment VF39? 1) I had a very very similar issue and with a ProDrive solenoid and a .025 pill (stock is .045) I was able to get around this. What size pill are you using? Mig welding tips for very well for this. 2) This is bad...you are overheating the air and the Perrin cant keep up time for Water Injection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005garnetGT Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 machined comp cover perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 Is the negative dynamic advance occurring during the shift when the throttle is closed or after you shift into 4th and open the throttle again? Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 machined comp cover perhaps? Thanks It was more of a who did it, this is the first I have heard of one Post up some logs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackGT Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Thanks It was more of a who did it, this is the first I have heard of one Post up some logs I built it myself, have built a couple of them. Also, use a VF34 and come up with what TDC calls a 35bb, put an 18G wheel on it and call it a 40bb. I built them about a year ago, was going to try to sell them if all went right, but decided against it since the only reasonable way to do it is to get used VF39's, and who wants to buy a used VF39 for their nice LGT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackGT Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 How did you get an LGT figment VF39? 1) I had a very very similar issue and with a ProDrive solenoid and a .025 pill (stock is .045) I was able to get around this. What size pill are you using? Mig welding tips for very well for this. 2) This is bad...you are overheating the air and the Perrin cant keep up time for Water Injection I disagree that the only cause is overheating the air (I know the air is hot, but there must be something else), and here is why: - It is cool (60deg) when I am doing these runs, and I make sure to cool down the IC before I do a logging run. - It is only at 17.5psi. - It happens like a light-switch, it goes from dynamic advance in third, to dynamic retard in fourth gear, always during the shift, and it only takes .2 seconds.... I guess I should turn down the boost and see if it happens at say, 15psi. thanks for the discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackGT Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Is the negative dynamic advance occurring during the shift when the throttle is closed or after you shift into 4th and open the throttle again? When I see the retard is after the shift when the throttle is at 100% in 4th gear. If I go to a little better resolution on the data logging, I bet I could pinpoint exactly when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 BlackGT can you post a datalog? Have you plotted the timing using Airboy's spreadsheet? One thing that I noticed is that the intake compensation B table screws up my timing between 3000 and 3500 rpm. The compensation turns off when load hits 3.0 g which ocurs at 2800-3000 rpm if I start my WOT run at a low enough rpm. If the car does not hit 3.0 g, then the compensation turns off at 3500 rpm. When I originally tuned the car, I based it off datalogs from 2000 rpm to redline. So, my timing between 3000 and 3500 rpm did not include the extra 3.16 degrees of advance. If I shifted at about 3000 rpm and then hit WOT, well, I don't hit 3.0 g of load and so suddenly, I have an extra 3.16 degrees of timing! Occassionally, I would get a knock at about 3200 rpm and the ecu would pull 2 degrees of timing. I finally zeroed out the table, but haven't figured out how to properly add the timing back in without screwing up my timing table in the low load regioni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackGT Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I will attempt to post a datalog tomorrow, I do not know Airboys software, is it something available here or on the web? My calculated load peaks at about 2.54 (at around 3500-4000rpm) while logging, do you have a gigantic turbo or something to get above 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 I disagree that the only cause is overheating the air (I know the air is hot, but there must be something else), and here is why: - It is cool (60deg) when I am doing these runs, and I make sure to cool down the IC before I do a logging run. - It is only at 17.5psi. - It happens like a light-switch, it goes from dynamic advance in third, to dynamic retard in fourth gear, always during the shift, and it only takes .2 seconds.... I guess I should turn down the boost and see if it happens at say, 15psi. thanks for the discussion The air that comes out of the turbo after being compressed is not quite as cool, that's what the intercooler is there to deal with. Also, only logging during ideal conditions is a great way to end up with a map that doesn't work very well. Your load is being calculated differently than the rest of us - it does not take a very large turbo to get calculated loads over 3. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Stock VF40 can hit 3.0 g load. I get 3.0 g load at 3000 rpm and 17 psi boost. Airboy's spreadsheet is the best. No tuner should be without it. http://www.enginuity.org/viewtopic.php?t=957 I added an acceleration calculator to it: http://www.enginuity.org/viewtopic.php?t=957&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75 BTW, IMHO, the Cobb timing is too aggressive between 2500 and 4000 rpm (worst is at 2800 rpm) if you go over 2.5 g load. Why are you only hitting 2.54 g load? 17 psi should result in a higher load than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackGT Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 The air that comes out of the turbo after being compressed is not quite as cool, that's what the intercooler is there to deal with. Also, only logging during ideal conditions is a great way to end up with a map that doesn't work very well. Your load is being calculated differently than the rest of us - it does not take a very large turbo to get calculated loads over 3. Yeah I know what an intercooler is for. My point was that the intercooler was not heat soaked, it was a cool day, which lowers the tendency for detonation or pulled timing. My load sounds very low compared to the rest of you, what parameters does the ECU use to calculate load? What kind of MAF voltage would you guys expect to see with a VF39? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 How do you know what the intercooler outlet temperature is when you are in 4th gear? Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 My load sounds very low compared to the rest of you, what parameters does the ECU use to calculate load? Are you using street tuner to log? I'm not familiar with street tuner logs but I would recommend using the latest version of enginuity to log because it has a LOT of new defs in it. I always log load from the ecu ram. When I calculate load from maf (g/s) and rpm, I get a slight error because of the time differential between reading maf and rpm. However, it doesn't explain 2.54 g vs 3.0 g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackGT Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 How do you know what the intercooler outlet temperature is when you are in 4th gear? Thermocouple probe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 Thermocouple probe. Why didn't you say so It would be nice to see the date from that thermocouple. The open source tuning people are funny - Street Tuner works perfectly fine and it logs just fine too Now on to your problem. I would check your OL delay. I would bet that it is set too high so that after you shift you are going back into closed loop and because the delay is too long, real knock is occurring. Don't set it too short or it will cause other problems. I used 100 across the board and that has worked out fine. I posted about this a while back. Even though no one listens to me you might find this useful http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43450 Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 The open source tuning people are funny - Street Tuner works perfectly fine and it logs just fine too Your load is being calculated differently than the rest of us - it does not take a very large turbo to get calculated loads over 3. I didn't say street tuner doesn't work. I just asked why is he logging a lower load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Load is relative people.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackGT Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 rao, I just re-read and have to clarify, I was not saying that it was 60 degrees coming out of the cold end of the intercooler, I meant to say that it was a cool day out, it was 60 degrees outside ambient air. Even in 60 degree weather, the IC out air is still close to 100 degrees under boost. But my point was that in 100 degree weather, the IC out temp would be more like 175 degrees, and then I could see it pulling a bunch of timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackGT Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I'm listening! I've wondered why the delay was changed to zero on V1.16. Mine is at zero right now. The only knock event I've ever logged has been on a hot day, during a shift, with like 12% throttle and engine vacuum. I'll try different delay values tonight. I'm still confused about why my load is lower than the rest. I could hit load 2.4X with the VF40, then only 2.54 with the VF39. Why didn't you say so It would be nice to see the date from that thermocouple. The open source tuning people are funny - Street Tuner works perfectly fine and it logs just fine too Now on to your problem. I would check your OL delay. I would bet that it is set too high so that after you shift you are going back into closed loop and because the delay is too long, real knock is occurring. Don't set it too short or it will cause other problems. I used 100 across the board and that has worked out fine. I posted about this a while back. Even though no one listens to me you might find this useful http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43450 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKonBLACK Limited Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 IS the Street Tuner software compatable with Windows Vista Premium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 IS the Street Tuner software compatable with Windows Vista Premium? http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33242 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKonBLACK Limited Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacy2005 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 does anybody have the MAF valves for a K&N typhoon? tried dialing them in but it just kept jumping around cant pin the values down. Work hard. Play even harder. My Garage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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