Colonel Red Racing 2005 STI Race Car

[GTEASER]

I was thinking the same as nils, there should be no way, without mixing oil and water, that the white goo could get into the oil.

[Sgt.Gator]

Back to the new build....any opinions on Zerolift-Motive Composite TGV deletes vs IAG metal ?

 

I had the Motive composite on the Silver Eagle, they worked fine. I've heard other folks have had them crack.

With the IAG I won't have to worry about them cracking 18 hours into a 25 hour race.

 

Heat transfer is not an issue with either because I'll be using the Grimmspeed or IAG phenolic spacers anyway to get more room under the intake for a 3" inlet pipe.

 

Also either way I'll be converting to top feed injectors, Cobb or ID, which I think are the same except the Cobb come with the conversion plugs and the ID you order separately.

 

The Zero Lift are $200.http://www.zerolift.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ZL-TGV

 

The IAG are $300. http://www.iagperformance.com/IAG-Silver-CNC-Top-Feed-TGV-Delete-WRX-STI-LGT-FXT-p/iag-afd-3001sl.htm

[SBT]

Durability on a racecar trumps less durability, especially at that cost differential.

 

I've heard it said that there's "Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine."

[Sgt.Gator]

Got the engine out and disassembled far enough...

 

The #4 Piston is literally gone! It consists of thousands of shavings and a few "forged" lumps of aluminum. The connecting rod is still attached to the crank fine, so it wasn't an oiling/bearing failure.

 

The #4 cylinder head is trashed. I don't think a 5 angle valve job is going to fix this one.

 

The #4 cylinder head valve cover is missing a chunk.

 

All the spewing molten aluminum went thru the exhaust and welded the exhaust side of the turbo. I took a picture but it didn't come out right, I'll try in the sun tomorrow.

 

In summary, the longblock is toast. About the only thing I can save is the intake, throttle body, some water pipes, the new OEM timing belt, ARP head studs, and a few sensors.

 

I'm tossing the oem oil cooler, oil pump, water pump AVCS valves, heads, valvetrain and buckets, block, probably the cams, pretty much anything that had oil running thru it. Maybe the turbo can be rebuilt by JMP, or maybe it's toast as a core.

 

I'm guessing it was a ringland failure that quickly became an entire piston meltdown. Parts of the former piston became solid balls that slammed into the block right above #4 breaking the hole thru it, hammered the cylinder head dome/valves destroying them, another chunk got thrown by the cam into the valve cover breaking it, and the rest of it flew around as shavings in the engine oil and semi molten shavings in the exhaust.

 

The water pump and block water passages are coated in the white goo/aluminum. I think now it was an electrolysis problem. There's a couple of links about that and aluminum radiators with the electrical tests you can run to test for it:

 

http://www.rondavisradiators.com/tech.htm

 

http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101/how-to-test

[ehsnils]

That level of meltdown - well, I have only seen it on a 2-stroke running too lean.

 

I would be afraid of re-using the fuel injectors since the one on #4 may be bad causing that cylinder to run lean, especially when I see the #2 cylinder that looks pretty much OK. However a lean cylinder may be because another runs rich, so it's not conclusive. Only way to make sure is to have a fresh matched set of injectors on the next engine.

 

I'm a bit surprised that there was a meltdown and not just a fragmenting of the piston due to the interference by loose parts from a ringland failure.

 

Anyway it's unfortunate to see an engine die.

[seanyb505]

Idk...should buff right out

[Sgt.Gator]

That level of meltdown - well, I have only seen it on a 2-stroke running too lean.

 

I would be afraid of re-using the fuel injectors since the one on #4 may be bad causing that cylinder to run lean, especially when I see the #2 cylinder that looks pretty much OK. However a lean cylinder may be because another runs rich, so it's not conclusive. Only way to make sure is to have a fresh matched set of injectors on the next engine.

 

I'm a bit surprised that there was a meltdown and not just a fragmenting of the piston due to the interference by loose parts from a ringland failure.

 

Anyway it's unfortunate to see an engine die.

 

Yes on the injectors for sure, probably ID or Cobb 1000. And on the fuel pump, I have an old Turbo XS swirl pot with provisions for 2x external pumps.

[LatentWagen]

Woah. Forged aluminum nuggets!

 

If I didn't know what had to happen to create those, I'd think they were pretty cool.

 

minimum driver weight for conference is 185. I don't think that rule has ever been enforced, tho. Class minimum weights, other than ST @ 10lb/hp, keep things in line pretty well.

 

Sorry for quoting old news, but 185 minimum driver weight would exclude most race drivers, no? Silly rule, I'd have to gain two stone

 

NASA is a little different from ICSCC in the way they calculate the numbers because NASA doesn't include TQ, so I can actually set it up for a lot of torque, say 360 Tq, as long the HP doesn't exceed the 310.

 

Another silly rule! A stump puller with a flat, broad 310 HP plateau would have a huge advantage over a high-revving motor with a peaky 310HP curve.

 

They should definitely include torque in the equation... or, not, since Subaru advantage! Wouldn't want to come across a 310HP diesel, though.

[shralp]

Think you created a new alloy there

[LatentWagen]

Quenched in tears of unfathomable $orrow

[ehsnils]

minimum driver weight for conference is 185. I don't think that rule has ever been enforced, tho. Class minimum weights, other than ST @ 10lb/hp, keep things in line pretty well.

Is 185 dry naked weight or with all equipment on?

[Sgt.Gator]

I have no idea where Boxkita got the 185 lb driver rule from. It's not in the 2016 rules and I never recall it being in any ICSCC rules since I started racing there in 2011.

[Sgt.Gator]

Here's cyl 1&3. Cyl 3 has a little aluminum from the cyl 4 meltdown that blew thru the intake and into it.

 

Notice how thick and hardened the gooo is in the water jackets. Although not thick enough now to impede the cooling significantly, in a few more months that would have been thick enough to cause all kinds of cooling problems.

[ehsnils]

Definitely looks like something that shouldn't be there.

 

The pH (acidity level) of the coolant is important for Alu blocks as well as type of coolant.

 

Aluminum will normally have a thin layer of alu oxide that seals the surface, but if the coolant is incorrect it will dissolve the oxide layer and start eating into the metal.

[SBT]

Subaru requires phosphate (non-anime) coolant to prevent leaching and deposition from/to the aluminum block and radiator of Subaru vehicles.

 

Note caution (and photo) in the attached TSB: Do not use after-market coolant reinforcement agents, sealers, and/or flusing agents as those chemicals could corrode aluminum parts.

 

Are you using any after-market non-phosphate coolant, or water wetter, or other like "agents" in your cooling system?

09-42-05180294 cautions concerning engine coolant.pdf

[Sgt.Gator]

For this engine I don't know what was being used for coolant. It came with coolant and I didn't change it since it was so low hours. I'll find out what was being used.

 

There is an aftermarket temp sensor in the radiator to a dash gauge. The sensor is grounded to the radiator support stay so it shouldn't have been causing an electrolysis situation, but it might have. I noticed Ron Davis sells a very extensive grounding kit for their radiators.

 

In the past I've never had an issue using either Water Wetter or Purple Ice plus straight water in the summer/racing and one of the "aluminum safe" anti freezes in the winter. When I've taken those engines apart there has never been any sign of coolant corrosion.

 

http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/reduced-heat.png

[SBT]

Over the years, with many Subarus, I've stuck with the Subaru coolants and have never had an issue with corrosion. With the Subaru Long Life (SLL), I always used distilled water, and topped-off with SLL when it needed it. This included one prepped 98 LGT that saw regular track events at SOW and another 98 LGT that saw lots of hard canyon carving and towing. Other than the coolant conditioner that Subaru recommended to protect the HGs on these engines, it's been Subaru coolant and nothing else. Neither of these had a hint of corrosion in their cooling systems.

 

When I pulled the engine on my 05 LGTW, at 155K miles, there was no evidence of corrosion anywhere in the radiator, hoses, aluminum pipes, or the block/heads. I had used SSL for 145K of those miles and Subaru Super Coolant (SSC) for another 10K. I will be replacing it with the SSC when the engine goes back in.

[Sgt.Gator]

Over the years, with many Subarus, I've stuck with the Subaru coolants and have never had an issue with corrosion. With the Subaru Long Life (SLL), I always used distilled water, and topped-off with SLL when it needed it. This included one prepped 98 LGT that saw regular track events at SOW and another 98 LGT that saw lots of hard canyon carving and towing. Other than the coolant conditioner that Subaru recommended to protect the HGs on these engines, it's been Subaru coolant and nothing else. Neither of these had a hint of corrosion in their cooling systems.

 

When I pulled the engine on my 05 LGTW, at 155K miles, there was no evidence of corrosion anywhere in the radiator, hoses, aluminum pipes, or the block/heads. I had used SSL for 145K of those miles and Subaru Super Coolant (SSC) for another 10K. I will be replacing it with the SSC when the engine goes back in.

 

Great advice for regular DDs, but it won't work on the racetrack. Coolant at most tracks is banned because when it gets on the track it's super slippery. Most tracks only allow water or water plus a product like Water Wetter or Purple Ice.

For HPDE's they allow coolant, but not for WTW racing.

[SBT]

Never had that issue at SOW, but times and requirements change. Distilled water it is then, because I've seen what tap water minerals will do to the inside of a Subaru coolant system. It is not pretty.

 

Check on the phosphate elements of your additives and whether it's non-anime. If GTG, then I'd run it with distilled water and not worry about it.

[Sgt.Gator]

Never had that issue at SOW, but times and requirements change. Distilled water it is then, because I've seen what tap water minerals will do to the inside of a Subaru coolant system. It is not pretty.

 

Check on the phosphate elements of your additives and whether it's non-anime. If GTG, then I'd run it with distilled water and not worry about it.

 

I have to decide now how much goo may be clogged up in the heater core and how to flush it out, and whether I can flush out the almost new Koyo radiator or buy a new one.

 

Running searches on aluminum radiator flush came up with using the old Permatex 80032 aluminum radiator flush (not sold anymore) which is identical to Gunk C2124 super heavy duty flush. I may get a electric water pump to circulate the flush thru a rigged up system thru the radiator and heater core before I put the new engine in.

 

Or dump the Koyo radiator and replace the heater core entirely.

 

EDIT: Going over the Fluidyne website I found this zinc anode. It's also sold by Flex-a-Lite and other vendors.

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fld-fhp32004

 

Unfortunately it's meant for US aluminum radiators with 1/4"NPT drain plugs. The Mishimoto and probably the KOYO use M16 drain plugs. Which means ordering an adaptor too. https://www.amazon.com/Engine-M16-1-5-Adapter-Female-Pressure/dp/B015NFR82Y

 

I've been doing a lot of reading on aluminum radiator electrolysis. I'm certain that has to be the cause of how fast this corrosion occurred. And I think the cause of the electrolysis is the 1/8" water temp gauge sending unit screwed into Koyo radiator bung. Pic attached. The sender was grounded to the radiator support stay but it apparently wasn't a good enough ground and the coolant became the conductor to a ground on the engine block. All it takes is .5v to screw up an aluminum radiator. Removing the temp sender from the radiator will probably fix the problem. The zinc anode is extra insurance.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Sgt.Gator

[SBT]

Running a flush on the radiator with the Gunk flush might get you there. Since the Koyo is a solid core radiator, you might take it to a radiator shop and ask them what their recommendation is and/or whether it's even possible to remove that stuff. Get it done professionally, so you don't have to worry about it, or find out that you can't and just replace it.

 

Question: Do you need the heater core to bleed-off/heat-sink excess heat? Seems like you could just take that out of the loop and remove one failure point from the equation. Unless you're going to be racing on extremely cold days, I'm not sure where or whether it's value-added.

[Sgt.Gator]

Running a flush on the radiator with the Gunk flush might get you there. Since the Koyo is a solid core radiator, you might take it to a radiator shop and ask them what their recommendation is and/or whether it's even possible to remove that stuff. Get it done professionally, so you don't have to worry about it, or find out that you can't and just replace it.

 

Question: Do you need the heater core to bleed-off/heat-sink excess heat? Seems like you could just take that out of the loop and remove one failure point from the equation. Unless you're going to be racing on extremely cold days, I'm not sure where or whether it's value-added.

 

It snowed at the Thill 25 a couple of years ago. Fog is typical, and cool to cold. Having a heater and defroster is a plus.

 

You have a good point, I can flush the heater core then plug it off for the summer racing season, then only reconnect for the late fall races and Thill25. Thanks.

[boxkita]

I have no idea where Boxkita got the 185 lb driver rule from. It's not in the 2016 rules and I never recall it being in any ICSCC rules since I started racing there in 2011.

 

Its a rule I heard when i went thru novice class. I never found a rule for it either. something they tell the newbies to mess them up, I guess.

[Sgt.Gator]

I posted this in the Turbo powertrain forum, but in just in case...

 

I'm considering an AWIC with a vertical clock outlet on the turbo like the attached pic. I've never done any turbo clocking so I'm unsure of the process and long term consequences. Are there turbos that can or cannot be clocked like this?

I'm specifically interested in clocking a Blouch 1.5 Dom XTR or ATP GTX3071.

I'll either use a EWG on the uppipe and lock off the IWG, or use the ATP GTX3071R with the built in EWG.

 

Are there any long term consequences to the bearing oiling or water cooling to consider to a vertical clock? Is this a difficult procedure?

Thanks for your advice!

[GTEASER]

When you clock the compressor housing, you're just unbolting it and rotating it around a little, and re-bolting it, there shouldn't be any issues at all. Since the inside of the housing currently clears the compressor wheel, and the inside is symmetrical, it will still clear the wheel after you rotate it.