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Colonel Red Racing 2005 STI Race Car


Sgt.Gator

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WTF??? stock block in there? Any indications that the motor was having issues when you bought it from Michael? Oh man, so sorry to hear :( Not that its going be cheap but maybe its time to put a short block in that pretty built up? Now we're both down for the count with my 1st gear giving up the ghost at ORP last week...
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WTF??? stock block in there? Any indications that the motor was having issues when you bought it from Michael? Oh man, so sorry to hear :( Not that its going be cheap but maybe its time to put a short block in that pretty built up? Now we're both down for the count with my 1st gear giving up the ghost at ORP last week...

 

Yep:

Engine & Transmission:

Stock drivetrain approximately 70k miles (new Subaru OEM shortblock with 4 hours on it)

Cosworth oil sump baffle/crank scraper

APS 3” Turbo back exhaust jet hot coating on downpipe and mid pipe

COBB Wastegate solenoid

K & N drop in air filter

New Koyo Racing Radiator

Process West Oil Cooler

Cusco engine and transmission mounts

Kartboy transmission pitch stop

Grimspeed 180 degree thermostat

Cobb Accessport Version 3

Steve’s Pacific Import Auto in Puyallup, WA dyno tuned

305 Wheel horsepower and 338 ft lbs of torque on a corrected Mustang Dynamometer at 20 PSI

Custom dual oil/breather catch cans

Exidy SD-type twin disc racing clutch and flywheel

New clutch packs in rear differential.

 

Issues before break down: None at Pacific when he raced it, and none the two times I took it to ORP for further break in and testing.

In Spokane it threw a CEL for Cyl #2 misfire. Then it let go.

 

That code can be caused by 50 things, everything from a lightweight crank pulley to a vacuum leak. The main one that is fatal is ringland failure.

 

I'm looking at a built shortblock from RalliSpec, Outfront, or Element Tuning. Or I may just have Phil at Element Tuning build the entire longblock.

 

First I have to decide what class I for sure want to be in for both ICSCC racing and the Thunderhill25 hour race. If it's ST3 (NASA THill 25) and ICSCC ST then I only need an engine that is good for about 310 - 320 HP, but good all day-all night-all year!

 

Because both are HP/weight classes (10lbs/hp) the engine needs to have a fast ramp up and stay at the max allowable HP for as long as possible. I need to pick the turbo, exhaust, and heads that will spool fast up to 310 TQ, stay there flat across the powerband to 310 HP and go as far as possible into the rpm upper range at 310.

 

NASA is a little different from ICSCC in the way they calculate the numbers because NASA doesn't include TQ, so I can actually set it up for a lot of torque, say 360 Tq, as long the HP doesn't exceed the 310.

 

ICSCC uses a (HP+TQ)/2 = calculated HP if TQ is higher than HP. But I can run one map for ICSCC and one for NASA.

Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine.

"Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"

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Those Seibon still have the TMIC scoop. The Kaminari FMIC hood has eliminated the TMIC scoop and put a reverse heat extractor scoop towards the front:

 

The non show quality CF version: K081018FC

 

More pics from one on NASIOC:

http://i50.tinypic.com/ehjjvk.jpg..http://i41.tinypic.com/1sy6mp.jpg

2004242769_KaminariWRXSTIReverseHood.jpg.161871fc4ebc8ec6177867ccc12e9e69.jpg

Edited by Sgt.Gator

Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine.

"Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"

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4 hours on the short block? Dang! Gotta wonder if the tune was off? I mean its not like you're pushing a ton of power for stock internals. That just sucks. Definitely interested to see what the post mortem tells you...
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^^^ When the internals go, they go...regardless of power. 4 hours of beating the stink off of it could be enough to do it in.

"It's within spec" - SOA :rolleyes:

"Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism

"So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable :lol:." - Stephen (very close friend)

"You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics

 

2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek

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^^^ When the internals go, they go...regardless of power. 4 hours of beating the stink off of it could be enough to do it in.

 

This. I'm a 100% armchair quarterback when it comes to racing, but honestly it just comes down to "pay to play." Sorry to hear the motor went, but yeah it's time (or well past time) to purpose build a motor for what you intend to do with it.

 

Looking forward to following along as you move forward.

 

Who is tuning the car? Are they providing tunes meant for extended / elevated abuse?

"Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>>

 

Not currently in stock :(

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Just seems strange to me. I beat the snot out of mine on the track for 7 seasons at similar power levels with zero issues, (and less "preventative" stuff, i.e.- oil coolers, catch cans, racing sumps, etc...)
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Just seems strange to me. I beat the snot out of mine on the track for 7 seasons at similar power levels with zero issues, (and less "preventative" stuff, i.e.- oil coolers, catch cans, racing sumps, etc...)

 

I agree - multiple engines blown means that something is wrong. A post mortem should be needed to see what it is that causes so many engines to die.

 

Only takes a single weak component in the chain to initiate the problem.

453747.png
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Yes four engines. Two were not my build or tune. One of those was the Spec B I bought from Drew that is well documented in my rebuild 3rd time thread. The thread shows the problems found in both the engine that was in the car that failed and the spare longblock that came with the car. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/built-spec-b-rebuild-3rd-time-239147.html That failure was a failed AOS installation that filled the FMIC - Intake with oil and the number 4 bearing being ruined. I'm not sure the two are connected, the #4 bearing is the one that almost always goes because it's furthest from the oil pump. Maybe the oil in the intake contributed, maybe not.

 

The second engine was this one.

 

The third was the original motor from the Subaru Road Race 2006 Team also used in the 2007 Time Attack series. So it lasted at least 3.5 seasons of racing. It was an oiling issue, the #3 and #4 rod bearings failed. It was an impressive destruction. There's picks in the 2005 SCCA Racing thread. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/cool-article-05-scca-wagons-floating-around-still-73859.html

 

The 4th was the rebuilt motor put in the same car. It only lasted 3-4 races. We won't know what happened with the 4th until Boxkita tears it down. Right now I suspect the timing belt tensioner bolt came loose for lack of using Loctite.

 

We'll know soon enough on this one. Right now I'm thinking two possibilities: The rebuilder did not toss the oil cooler from the original engine when it blew, he cleaned it thoroughly and re-used it. As ya'll know most of us here on the forum replace the oil cooler with a new one or just delete it entirely. Some folks think that is overkill but in looking at new shortblocks I see that Outfront Motors requires the oil cooler be replaced or the warranty is voided.

http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/images/downloads/Engine-Warranty-Info-and-Installation-Recommendations.pdf

 

The other possibility is this seems like a lot of power on stock injectors and stock turbo. Could the stock injectors have caused a lean AFR at full throttle 20 psi that blew the engine? I pulled the COBB AP datalogs but they don't show AFR. I don't see any significant knock events. I'm sending the the datalogs to Cobb Surgeline for a review.

 

I was just re-reading the 3rd rebuild thread and came across what I said: "My biggest regret is that I should have taken it to Cobb Surgeline for a Test & Tune BEFORE I took it out on track. They might have caught the issue on the dyno before I popped the engine. I won't make that mistake again!"

I guess I don't learn! I should have taken the race car to Cobb for a dyno tune. I didn't because it had just been tuned at PIA in Tacoma. I won't make that mistake again!

Edited by Sgt.Gator

Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine.

"Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"

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Jesus. I didnt know you were on your 4th.

 

Hindsight.

 

I can't imagine the frustration and $$.

 

I hope you guys find the weak link.

"It's within spec" - SOA :rolleyes:

"Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism

"So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable :lol:." - Stephen (very close friend)

"You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics

 

2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek

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Also ensure that the fuel pump gives enough - and that the fuel filter don't constrain the flow.

 

Any time I have been running an engine for the first time since it was out of the vehicle I'm so stressed I almost crawl on the walls.

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Just seems strange to me. I beat the snot out of mine on the track for 7 seasons at similar power levels with zero issues, (and less "preventative" stuff, i.e.- oil coolers, catch cans, racing sumps, etc...)

 

All the "preventative" stuff is also contributing to a more complicated system with additional points for potential failure. When everything is working you can have a powerful car that takes abuse like a champ, but if something isn't working quite right...

"Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>>

 

Not currently in stock :(

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Also ensure that the fuel pump gives enough - and that the fuel filter don't constrain the flow.

 

Any time I have been running an engine for the first time since it was out of the vehicle I'm so stressed I almost crawl on the walls.

 

Good point on the fuel pump, it's oem. It does have two Holley hydramats on each side of the tank and a Holley fuel transfer pump that moves gas from the left side to the right side of the tank. But that only helps when the tank is less than half full. It was 90% full for the races.

Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine.

"Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"

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Funny how I find out about you blowing your engine from a coworker instead of this thread. :/ He was out there over the weekend and today walked up and asked if you were racing. Said a blue sti blew one and all I could think was theres no way your luck was that cruddy :/ Oh well time for MOAR
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After cutting a lot of flab out the Blue Sake Bomber lost 38 lbs. With a 100% full tank and no driver I'm at 2983lbs, empty tank should be about 2900.

 

Losing more weight will get expensive, and probably not worth it. 17" wheels and tires, Lexan windshields, CF driveshaft. All to lose maybe 50 more lbs. Well maybe the wheels and tires......;)

 

Here's some pics with the new graphics. I haven't done the stripes or any sponsor graphics on the hood yet because I'm pretty sure the TMIC and monster scoop will be going away, and the hood will be replaced.

But the rest of the car is done.

 

1st race this Friday in Spokane!

 

Looks like 55 was taken.

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I'm really liking these Karlton fender flares!

http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj574/flushed05wrx/bcb0d5de1ce51457e89c2b5e1994e3bf.jpg..

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8043/8150571709_07e35b634a_b.jpg..

http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz354/BFV6/Subi%20journal/wade_zps9618da20.jpg..

27557846640_71e2d9536d_c.jpg

 

They were out of production but they are back now. Makes putting 275-295 and even 315 tires possible.

 

https://www.facebook.com/karltonfenderflares/timeline

 

We need to get him to make them for the LGTs!

 

100 page thread on NASIOC: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2448193

Edited by Sgt.Gator

Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine.

"Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"

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Speaking as a closed deck outfront block owner running 750cc injectors, there is something to be said for over building a motor and under running it.

 

This is hard to do on a racecar " Recommended break in should be 3000 miles driven under normal conditions, do not use synthetic oils

during break-in, use good quality multigrade oils such as Motul 10/40 break-in oil, Valvoline or Castrol. We

recommend an oil change with filter at 100, 500 and 1000, 2000, and 3000 miles. At 3000 miles you can switch

to synthetic oils if you choose to. For the first 500 – 1000 miles try to avoid long periods of time at the same

RPM such as freeway driving at 3500 RPM for 30 minutes. You should vary through the RPM range. Stock

boost is fine but you should stay away from high boost/high load situations.

", however, given the cost of a new engine; what about dropping the new motor in the specb and doing the break in. Then when done, swap it back into the racecar?

 

As for their comments on oil burning, I found their piston clearances too close on the engine I bought. I had the machine shop add more clearance. It was more noisy and burned more oil, however, it ran hard every session. I know we have gone back & forth on this on many other threads. Maybe a different approach should be on the table?

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closed deck v3 shortblock - http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/short-block/outfront-motorsports-closed-deck-v3-base-shortblock

$3900 + $672 (½” head studs w/ machining + $100 (JE Proseal Head Gaskets (Pair))

 

$4600 for a solid short block. add your heads (as-is unported). use 750 or 850 injectors, as you're shooting for 93-95% efficiency (forget the thread that has the actual number). Get a turbo that's on boost by 2500 and tune for a flat torque line for several 1000's of rpms. If you really want the FMIC, then do the v-mount kit and/or swap in a front mount turbo setup like a 5th gen or outfront's sandrail kit. Do the breakin and run the oils they recommend.

 

I've got 3 cores. Assuming all are good, thinking of sending one in for this setup as my streetcar motor was a great motor. My original plan was to put the core in the streetcar as is and the rebuilt streetcar motor in the racecar.

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if they would make a set for LGT, I'd be a buyer. Seeing those 315's in your garage made me regret having to deal with 225/245's. If can't get those, going to take Johann up on his offer to custom build a set for the wagon.

 

Those were 295's you saw, all the rest are 275s. I don't know how Mike ended up with one pair of 295s, they won't fit on all the 9.5" wide wheels he had. And I think they are probably too big and too stressful on the bearings with the much bigger wheels I'd have to buy. And of course 295s are very expensive race tires. If you want them they are for sale. :)

 

I think I'm going to standardize on 275/35/18 wheels and tires. The car came with 12 Rota 18x9.5 +38 wheels which are a little undersize for the 275/35/18 tires it came with. Any new wheels I get will be Enkei RPF1 18x10 +38 or Enkei PFO1 18x10.5 +38. The 10.5 wide wheels would be great for 275 tires.

 

Speaking as a closed deck outfront block owner running 750cc injectors, there is something to be said for over building a motor and under running it.

 

This is hard to do on a racecar " Recommended break in should be 3000 miles driven under normal conditions, do not use synthetic oils

during break-in, use good quality multigrade oils such as Motul 10/40 break-in oil, Valvoline or Castrol. We

recommend an oil change with filter at 100, 500 and 1000, 2000, and 3000 miles. At 3000 miles you can switch

to synthetic oils if you choose to. For the first 500 – 1000 miles try to avoid long periods of time at the same

RPM such as freeway driving at 3500 RPM for 30 minutes. You should vary through the RPM range. Stock

boost is fine but you should stay away from high boost/high load situations.

", however, given the cost of a new engine; what about dropping the new motor in the specb and doing the break in. Then when done, swap it back into the racecar?

 

As for their comments on oil burning, I found their piston clearances too close on the engine I bought. I had the machine shop add more clearance. It was more noisy and burned more oil, however, it ran hard every session. I know we have gone back & forth on this on many other threads. Maybe a different approach should be on the table?

 

I plan on making use of my ORP track club membership to break the new engine in right. Maybe not to that extent, but at least three good progressive stress track days with an oil change in between.

 

closed deck v3 shortblock - http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/short-block/outfront-motorsports-closed-deck-v3-base-shortblock

$3900 + $672 (½” head studs w/ machining + $100 (JE Proseal Head Gaskets (Pair))

 

$4600 for a solid short block. add your heads (as-is unported). use 750 or 850 injectors, as you're shooting for 93-95% efficiency (forget the thread that has the actual number). Get a turbo that's on boost by 2500 and tune for a flat torque line for several 1000's of rpms. If you really want the FMIC, then do the v-mount kit and/or swap in a front mount turbo setup like a 5th gen or outfront's sandrail kit. Do the breakin and run the oils they recommend.

 

I've got 3 cores. Assuming all are good, thinking of sending one in for this setup as my streetcar motor was a great motor. My original plan was to put the core in the streetcar as is and the rebuilt streetcar motor in the racecar.

 

I'm either going to do a Rallispec Street Spec Pro or the Rallispec Value Race shortblock or the Outfront. I don't think at the boost levels I'm looking at I need a fully closed block. So right now I'm leaning towards the Rallispec block. From what I can tell the difference between the Street Pro and the Value Race is just the pistons. (Cosworth vs Omega). They are booth balanced to 1/4 gram. http://www.rallispec.com/shortblock%20options.pdf

 

Ya'll have recommendations for fast spool turbos that max out around 370HP/TQ? The only time I'd need that much power is in ICSCC Enduros where I'm not only competing against ST cars but GT1 GT2 and SPO-M-U cars as well in my class. If I have to give up 370 Hp to get a fast spool 320 HP that's ok.

 

I have the original turbo that came on the Silver Eagle, a FP 18g that JMP has custom rebuilt already. It performed well two years ago at that power level and with his magic it should be even better.

 

And yes, the TMIC scoop has to go!

Edited by Sgt.Gator

Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine.

"Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"

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RalliSpec recommends the following break-in procedure for your new engine:

 

1) After assembly fill the engine with a high quality mineral (non-synthetic) oil. An oil formulated specifically for break-in will provide optimum results. Rallispec suggests Motul 10W40 Break-In Oil. If cams and lifters are already broken in then a standard mineral oil is acceptable. Do not overfill oil level.

 

2) Ensure cooling system is fully bled of any air pockets before starting. If possible fill system with hot coolant and allow 20 minutes for engine temperatures to stabilize before initial start.

 

3) With spark plugs removed and fuel/ignition systems disabled crank engine until oil pressure comes up (or oil pressure light goes out). Reinstall spark plugs and enable fuel and ignition systems.

 

4) Start engine. If new camshafts are fitted then immediately bring engine to 2000 rpm and hold for 15 minutes for proper cam lobe break-in (or follow cam manufacturer’s instructions). Otherwise run at high-idle until fans cycle on. Check for leaks.

 

5) Adjust boost pressures so maximum pressure does not exceed 1 bar (or wastegate spring pressure). Extreme care should be taken if ECU mapping is performed during the break-in process.

 

6) Find a suitable location to perform the following (can be done on dyno):

Accelerate in 3rd or 4th gear at light throttle from 2500 to 4500rpm and immediately transition to full engine breaking allowing revs to come back down to 2000rpm.

Perform this 10 times allowing 30 seconds between runs. Then perform 20 more runs between 2500rpm and 5500rpm starting at light throttle and progressing to full throttle with the last 5 runs at full throttle. Allow 1 minute between each run at neutral throttle to allow internal temperatures to stabilize.

Note: If performed on the dyno make sure load applied is similar to normal driving conditions on flat ground.

 

7) Drain oil and change filter.

 

8) The engine is now 80% broken in. Street engines should be restricted to no more than 5500rpm for the next 1500 miles. Boost pressures may be returned to normal but avoid extended periods of continuous rpm or continuous high load. Race engines should be run in for another 100 to 200 miles before subjected to full race rpm and load.

 

9) At 1500 miles break-in is complete. Change oil and filter. We suggest using a high quality synthetic such as Motul 8100 or 300V. The suggested oil viscosity is 5W40 for road use and 15W50 for motorsport use.

Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine.

"Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"

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Those were 295's you saw, all the rest are 275s. I don't know how Mike ended up with one pair of 295s, they won't fit on all the 9.5" wide wheels he had. And I think they are probably too big and too stressful on the bearings with the much bigger wheels I'd have to buy. And of course 295s are very expensive race tires. If you want them they are for sale. :)

 

I think I'm going to standardize on 275/35/18 wheels and tires. The car came with 12 Rota 18x9.5 +38 wheels which are a little undersize for the 275/35/18 tires it came with. Any new wheels I get will be Enkei RPF1 18x10 +38 or Enkei PFO1 18x10.5 +38. The 10.5 wide wheels would be great for 275 tires.

 

I want to say I had 275/30/18 continental race slicks on 18x9.5 when I was testing on the wagon, but can't find that sizing.

 

RPF1 or PF01 are both great wheels. Had both, tracked both, liked both. the PF01 might be a bit more robust?

 

 

I plan on making use of my ORP track club membership to break the new engine in right. Maybe not to that extent, but at least three good progressive stress track days with an oil change in between.

Breakin is good :-)

 

 

I'm either going to do a Rallispec Street Spec Pro or the Rallispec Value Race shortblock or the Outfront. I don't think at the boost levels I'm looking at I need a fully closed block. So right now I'm leaning towards the Rallispec block. From what I can tell the difference between the Street Pro and the Value Race is just the pistons. (Cosworth vs Omega). They are booth balanced to 1/4 gram. http://www.rallispec.com/shortblock%20options.pdf

street spec pro and upgrade pistons to omega 2618. detune to run at 7000rpm.

 

 

Ya'll have recommendations for fast spool turbos that max out around 370HP/TQ? The only time I'd need that much power is in ICSCC Enduros where I'm not only competing against ST cars but GT1 GT2 and SPO-M-U cars as well in my class. If I have to give up 370 Hp to get a fast spool 320 HP that's ok.

 

Can you find a fp hta68? I had JMP update mine a bit which was already a nice setup. 335lb/tq from 4000-7000 was pretty awesome.

 

I have the original turbo that came on the Silver Eagle, a FP 18g that JMP has custom rebuilt already. It performed well two years ago at that power level and with his magic it should be even better.

Oh, really? I knew I should have checked out the attic... :eek:

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