6th Gen Tuning Thread

[andrew_l_s]

I just hit 22k miles today. I would hope spark plugs wouldn't need done this soon...

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions! The consensus seems to be swap back to stock and reset. I'm working on that now.

 

I shot an email over to Matt with a summary of what's going on and asking if my tune can be tweaked to accommodate the intake should it be the culprit.

 

I'll report back with my findings.

[BeastCoast]

I just hit 22k miles today. I would hope spark plugs wouldn't need done this soon...

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions! The consensus seems to be swap back to stock and reset. I'm working on that now.

 

I shot an email over to Matt with a summary of what's going on and asking if my tune can be tweaked to accommodate the intake should it be the culprit.

 

I'll report back with my findings.

 

 

 

Before putting the stock intake back in I recommend flashing the stock file back in, and doing a full ECU reset and then logging that ECU file. That way you can send him over an accurate file for him to tweak of your stock tune with the intake.

 

 

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[Dr. Photo]

Shouldn't we be sending in logs after every update we get?

 

I'm thinking if no, then we are getting tunes based on that one original file we sent in.

 

If yes, then wouldn't we be getting updates that are constantly changing the way our cars are as we update?

 

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[BeastCoast]

Shouldn't we be sending in logs after every update we get?

 

I'm thinking if no, then we are getting tunes based on that one original file we sent in.

 

If yes, then wouldn't we be getting updates that are constantly changing the way our cars are as we update?

 

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I personally would log a new file for everything that would effect engine performance. Being the car it is, the only thing that would do that is the intake so I haven't had a need to log an new file since then. If you were going to get custom headers or something that would change things.

 

 

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[andrew_l_s]

Before putting the stock intake back in I recommend flashing the stock file back in, and doing a full ECU reset and then logging that ECU file. That way you can send him over an accurate file for him to tweak of your stock tune with the intake.

 

 

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Already swapped it back but that's a good idea. I'll see what he says and swap back if needed. Only takes like a half hour to swap it over so no biggie if I have to again.

[surmiser]

I personally would log a new file for everything that would effect engine performance. Being the car it is, the only thing that would do that is the intake so I haven't had a need to log an new file since then. If you were going to get custom headers or something that would change things.

 

Do you know for a fact that EcuFlash/Tactrix pulls AFR data logs in addition to the tune? I'm asking because I suspect it doesn't. Every time I copy my stock tune, it's the exact same file size: 1.3MB. Even after installing my Takeda intake, resetting my ECU, and logging 5 days of AFR data.

 

But what the hell, I just sent Matt my freshly-copied stock tune file anyway, in case it contains any useful data that differs from the original file I sent him pre-ECU-reset.

[ammcinnis]

Every time I copy my stock tune, it's the exact same file size: 1.3MB.

 

Same file size is to be expected, but it's the file content that matters. Specifically, there are a lot of dynamic (i.e. changing) data tables included in the files. You can use tools like the MD5 or SHA hashes to see if the file contents are identical.

Edited November 18, 2016 by ammcinnis

[surmiser]

Did the ECU reset bring back your torque? Was the intake installed when you sent your base tune to TH?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm back on the stock intake and I did the fuzzy logic reset like tigger outlined last night. I'm gonna go for a drive after class to see if my power is back. Couldn't tell this morning as traffic was too bad to get on it lol.

 

 

Sorry I wasn't clearer.

 

I haven't flashed a TH tune to my car yet.

 

I sent my stock tune to TH before I installed my intake. I haven't heard back from him yet.

 

I then installed the Takeda intake and reset the ECU/fuzzy logic. I'm just saying that low-end torque was awful till the ECU had adjusted to the Takeda intake. It did this by itself and it took a day.

 

Today, I copied my stock tune a second time and sent it to TH, in case he finds it helpful. Comparing the first and second stock tune files reveals that they differ in only a single line of code.

[RobbieGT]

Waiting on Matt... Can't wait to see the update roll out, wonder when we'll get it..

[andrew_l_s]

Sorry I wasn't clearer.

 

I haven't flashed a TH tune to my car yet.

 

I sent my stock tune to TH before I installed my intake. I haven't heard back from him yet.

 

I then installed the Takeda intake and reset the ECU/fuzzy logic. I'm just saying that low-end torque was awful till the ECU had adjusted to the Takeda intake. It did this by itself and it took a day.

 

Today, I copied my stock tune a second time and sent it to TH, in case he finds it helpful. Comparing the first and second stock tune files reveals that they differ in only a single line of code.

 

Ahh gotcha.

 

I did the fuzzy logic reset after installing the intake and drove for a week with the intake before I had a chance to get on it while cruising back roads. I would think in a week's worth of driving at least an hour every day it'd have adjusted to the intake.

 

 

On stock intake with the tune after a reset it was back to normal. I'm currently running the Takeda with the stock tune to get a file to send over to Matt.

[RobbieGT]

And what update is that?

 

On October 8th he said a newer 93/95 tune was rolling out shortly.

[RobbieGT]

Out of curiousity, are you all sending him logs?

 

Not all 93/95 are the same.

 

My 6Gen customer is require to log, but I haven't touch timing. I will do so soon slowly to determine timing.

 

Nope... I received the first tune, then the 93 tune, and that's been it thus far.

[tigger73]

http://66.media.tumblr.com/2866ab918f96ef1f36da5e0bd70b022e/tumblr_inline_o4waseliFp1sfm32i_500.gif

[RobbieGT]

Well now you've got me worried...

[tigger73]

Robbie,

 

Don't stress yourself out. What you have here is 2 different approaches from 2 different tuners. There's no real wrong or right way - just a different approach/philosophy.

 

west_minist/XRT will tend to spend more time developing custom tunes for individual cars. He will get people to log their cars and then adjust the tune based on the logging results.

 

throttlehappy/Matt will develop a file on one car (or number of cars) and then use this file as a template and apply this across all of the same model car. When he improves the file he will then send out updates to everyone to get the latest/greatest file.

 

This is probably an over-simplification, however this is the basic difference (as I understand it) between the 2 tuners.

 

There's obviously variations in the base/stock tune file depending on region and software that gets loaded from the factory. The way the factory/manufacturer operates is more how TH runs - everyone gets the same file and when an update is available, everyone gets the same thing.

 

There is a case for custom tuning - particularly if you have non-standard hardware installed. You end up with a tailored tune, however you will potentially lose out on later updates/developments.

 

No wrong/right way just 2 different approaches.

 

Factory/manufacturers obviously apply generic software for all of the same model car. It's a lot easier to maintain software that way. Though there are arguments that custom tuning will get the most out of every engine, however only if the tuner is good enough and prepared to dig deep enough to extract the last few hp.

 

Arguments about which tuner is better than another or which approach is better end up like a pissing contest - hence the popcorn

Edited November 20, 2016 by tigger73

[tigger73]

One last thing that is not totally correct is that custom tune limit updates. Because you are custom tune, you may not need further updates for development to optimise or adjust for issues if you are globally trying to cover a make of car.

 

The comment around updates of custom tune files relates more to the complexity of keeping a large number of individual files up to date. The more custom files that are written, the larger the job to maintain these files.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, however it does become a larger job to maintain and keep all the files up to date.

 

There's no one way that is necessarily better than the other as there's plusses and minuses for both ways of going about tuning and updating tune files.

 

I'll look forward to seeing what kind of results you can obtain from custom tuning vs. applying a "generic" tune file.

[andrew_l_s]

Just received an email from Matt with a revised tune. Will report back tomorrow after driving with the butt dyno findings:p

[diesel4982]

I haven't been able to reach Matt in about two weeks. I'm glad he got back to you. Hopefully he'll get back to me too. I'm waiting on the 93 tune.

[andrew_l_s]

It's all good under the hood:cool:

 

I have the low-end grunt and the glorious sound of the intake, not just one or the other. So future reference to anyone getting the tune, if you got the Takeda intake specify that to Matt.

 

I haven't been able to reach Matt in about two weeks. I'm glad he got back to you. Hopefully he'll get back to me too. I'm waiting on the 93 tune.

 

Hmm. I waited a few days for him to get back to me, understandably due to the weekend. 2 weeks seems like a bit much. Maybe he's having to do some tweaking on it for you, idk.

[Condor1970]

I have not torn apart the air filter yet to see what's inside my new 2017 Legacy, but I'm assuming it has one of those charcoal PZEV filters in the back of the air intake?

 

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

If it does, then has anyone noticed an increase in performance (low end torque), or perhaps even increased gas mileage (a little) by removing the PZEV charcoal filter, the OEM air filter, then installing a K&N, or AEM air filter alone?

 

I searched this thread, but not many results after searching for charcoal filter, or K&N/AEM filter usage. Just wondering what all your thoughts are. Lots of supercharger talk, and Takeda intake stuff, but not much on just air filters.

 

Also, does removing the charcoal filter void the warranty? If so, doesn't installing a Takeda intake do the same?

[andrew_l_s]

I have not torn apart the air filter yet to see what's inside my new 2017 Legacy, but I'm assuming it has one of those charcoal PZEV filters in the back of the air intake?

 

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

If it does, then has anyone noticed an increase in performance (low end torque), or perhaps even increased gas mileage (a little) by removing the PZEV charcoal filter, the OEM air filter, then installing a K&N, or AEM air filter alone?

 

I searched this thread, but not many results after searching for charcoal filter, or K&N/AEM filter usage. Just wondering what all your thoughts are. Lots of supercharger talk, and Takeda intake stuff, but not much on just air filters.

 

Also, does removing the charcoal filter void the warranty? If so, doesn't installing a Takeda intake do the same?

 

My car is not a PZEV model however I haven't heard about PZEV's having a charcoal filter.

 

I had a K&N before going to the Takeda. Don't know that I really noticed any difference with the K&N compared to stock, it's just something my dad's been doing forever and I followed lol.

 

Any difference in power from just a filter is pretty miniscule, if you're looking for gains, intake + tune. If all you want is a washable filter and to save a little money in the long run go K&N or AEM.

[rossotron]

I have not torn apart the air filter yet to see what's inside my new 2017 Legacy, but I'm assuming it has one of those charcoal PZEV filters in the back of the air intake?

 

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

If it does, then has anyone noticed an increase in performance (low end torque), or perhaps even increased gas mileage (a little) by removing the PZEV charcoal filter, the OEM air filter, then installing a K&N, or AEM air filter alone?

 

I searched this thread, but not many results after searching for charcoal filter, or K&N/AEM filter usage. Just wondering what all your thoughts are. Lots of supercharger talk, and Takeda intake stuff, but not much on just air filters.

 

Also, does removing the charcoal filter void the warranty? If so, doesn't installing a Takeda intake do the same?

 

my 2013 2.5i was a pzev. i think you're supposed to keep the charcoal filter on to keep it from throwing codes because the ecu is calibrated differently from regular 2.5i cars. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

 

on that note, i just dropped a k&n filter.

[surmiser]

If it does, then has anyone noticed an increase in performance (low end torque), or perhaps even increased gas mileage (a little) by removing the PZEV charcoal filter, the OEM air filter, then installing a K&N, or AEM air filter alone?

 

 

My made-in-Japan 6th-gen didn't have a charcoal filter.

 

Before my Takeda intake, I had a K&N direct replacement panel filter that had negligible impact on noise/performance/economy, which is why I decided to upgrade further. That being said, the Takeda is mostly noise unless you tune your car.

[Timothy.B]

I was reading something about this recently:

 

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/1760042-post8.html

 

The USDM are probably different. IIRC I saw on a thread it's a minute difference in power. Maybe 5HP. I think it was CVT's only. Not the manual.

[PDREALTOR]

Unfortunate, there is another thread on the 6Gen tuning. Hopefully another customer to post results soon. The cvt shifting and power deliver seems prefect now.

 

He logs his car for me to see whats going on with his fuel and other data.

 

Haha... I've been lurking both these threads and here you are again Edward!!

 

I just wrote some info on our past couple days/your tuning work over on the other thread - here's a link to my info - http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5535680&postcount=35

 

Very pleased with the both the results and overall service.