19mm rear sway bar install

[Yoda_One]

Where are you all buying your 20mm sway bars from?

 

I know, you do not have any time to read the prior posts in this thread or too busy to use the Search ability. A quote just came to mine..

"you can lead (or take) a horse to water but you can't make him drink"

 

Search "20mm" post #415

Hopefully, you will take advantage of the Search Function it's informative and save a lot of time.

 

Laughter is the key to happiness

Edited October 28, 2016 by Yoda_One

[fredrik94087]

I know, you do not have any time to read the prior posts in this thread or too busy to use the Search ability. A quote just came to mine..

"you can lead (or take) a horse to water but you can't make him drink"

 

Search "20mm" post #415

Hopefully, you will take advantage of the Search Function it informative and save a lot of time.

 

Laughter is the key to happiness

 

But, what if I want a 19mm bar? How do I search for that?

[STI_.]

But, what if I want a 19mm bar? How do I search for that?

 

 

 

You're just out of luck.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[STI_.]

Love the way my car handles after the inexpensive 29mm sway bar upgrade. It's a very different car on windy days and on hard cornering. I'm predicting shorter tire life.

 

And yes - I know somebody will say it would be better with a 22mm. Not for me it wouldn't.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Milkywitness]

I know, you do not have any time to read the prior posts in this thread or too busy to use the Search ability. A quote just came to mine..

"you can lead (or take) a horse to water but you can't make him drink"

 

Search "20mm" post #415

Hopefully, you will take advantage of the Search Function it informative and save a lot of time.

 

Laughter is the key to happiness

 

Thanks for being passive aggressive, it really helps! I really appreciate that. How can the key to happiness be laughter, if you don't make me laugh?

[Yoda_One]

Because you have no sense of humor.

 

 

It is not passive aggressive, it is just plain facts.[emoji15]

One overcomes laziness with action.(that is the truth)

 

Laughter is the key to happiness

Edited October 28, 2016 by Yoda_One

[Yoda_One]

"Do or do not there is no try"

 

Laughter is the key to happiness

[Yoda_One]

But, what if I want a 19mm bar? How do I search for that?

 

 

 

fredrik94087 that was outstanding. I nominate you for Secretary of State, I can guarandamntee you'll be better at it than the last two.

 

OBTW for the ones who need to be spoon fed the 19mm is listed in the Stickies. Am I being passive aggressive????

 

 

 

Laughter is the key to happiness

Edited October 28, 2016 by Yoda_One

[fredrik94087]

fredrik94087 that was outstanding. I nominate you for Secretary of State, I can guarandamntee you'll be better at it than the last two.

 

OBTW for the ones who need to be spoon fed the 19mm is listed in the Stickies. Am I being passive aggressive????

 

 

 

Laughter is the key to happiness

 

I woke up at 3am...couldn't sleep.

 

I was in a Richard sort of mood

[XT-sub]

Hi everyone,

 

Has anyone with a 2016 Legacy 3.6R (or Australian spec 2016 Liberty 3.6R) noticed any abnormal wear to the rear sway bar bushes or end link bushes since fitting the 19mm STi WRX rear sway bar?

 

The reason I ask is because of the shorter 19mm STi rear bar (shorter by 12mm compared to the stock 16mm rear bar) causing the end links to be at a greater angle compared to the stock bar which causes the 19mm bar to move laterally during cornering so that the lateral locating rings fixed to the bar push against the side of the rubber sway bar bushes (bar will move one way during a right hand corner & the other way during a left hand corner – the stock 16mm bar doesn’t move laterally).

 

I’ve had the same 19mm STi rear bar fitted to both our previous SJ XT Forester & also our previous SH XT Forester without this problem (bar didn’t move laterally) but both those standard 16mm Forester bars were the exact same length as the 19mm STi WRX bar.

[fredrik94087]

^^^ you are over-thinking it.

 

This statement is coming from a guy who has been called OCD by his installer.

[XT-sub]

^^^ you are over-thinking it. ...

 

Maybe ... maybe not. The different angle the end links are now at with the shorter 19mm bar must place more stress on the suspension components, especially the part that the sway bar bush clamps are bolted to.

 

Not wishing to de-rail this thread but Subaru must have had a reason to make the gen6 (2016 at least) Liberty rear bar longer than the previous rear 16mm bars (did earlier model Libertys have this longer length bar or were they the same length as the SH & SJ Foresters?)

 

Perhaps I should fit the Whiteline KBR15 sway bar mount supports to this car that have been sitting in my garage for the past five years.

[Milkywitness]

Well I ordered the 20mm RSB, pretty excited to see the difference in handling. Comments here are promising! The cornering is already far above what I have ever experienced before with a stock 16mm bar.

[ammcinnis]

... shorter 19mm STi rear bar (shorter by 12mm compared to the stock 16mm rear bar) ...

 

FWIW, before installing it in my 2015 Legacy I compared the 19mm RSB (Subaru part number 20451FG020) with the OE 16mm bar, and from an installation standpoint they were dimensionally identical ... i.e. lever arm length and attach point span. The overall span of the 19mm bar may have been slightly different ... I really don't remember ... but if so it was probably just an artifact of a slightly different bend radius.

Edited November 10, 2016 by ammcinnis

[securityguy]

XT-sub, you're over thinking it................

[XT-sub]

XT-sub, you're over thinking it................

I'm sure I read that comment somewhere before.

 

FWIW, before installing it in my 2015 Legacy I compared the 19mm RSB (Subaru part number 20451FG020) with the OE 16mm bar, and from an installation standpoint they were dimensionally identical ... i.e. lever arm length and attach point span. ...

 

Ammcinnis, thank you for that information - that is very helpful. This is probably why all the photos I have seen of the 19mm bar fitted to the gen6 USDM Legacys shows the end link angle as being what appears to be normal. My MY11 STi 19mm rear bar is the same part number as yours.

 

For reference my 19mm rear bar measures 889mm at the outside extreme ends of the lever arms, whereas my 16mm rear bar measures 901mm at the same point (also 12mm difference at the end link hole centres).

 

I’m starting to suspect, but have no proof, that there was more than just a minor change to the Australian spec Liberty’s rear suspension (& possibly the USDM Legacy) in 2016. I have come across the following information (with my emphasis):

 

“... which has an extensive local testing programme that leads to a ride-and-handling tune unique to the Australian market.

Fine-tuning of the rear shock absorbers, with less impact harshness on sharp bumps has reduced Noise, Vibration and Harshness resulting in a more serene cabin environment.

The 2016 Liberty upgrade also includes subtle improvements to the rear suspension springs, bushes and moving the stabiliser bar forward. The overall result is a firmer, more settled rear end on coarse, rough surfaces, with better roll, pitch, dive and float control. The Liberty sits very flat when gobbling up the bends on tarmac with recovery from bumps immediate and without noise or jolting.”

 

Apologies for getting this thread slightly off-topic, in hind-sight a new thread would have been more appropriate.

[brandon.mol]

I'm sure I read that comment somewhere before.

 

 

 

Ammcinnis, thank you for that information - that is very helpful. This is probably why all the photos I have seen of the 19mm bar fitted to the gen6 USDM Legacys shows the end link angle as being what appears to be normal. My MY11 STi 19mm rear bar is the same part number as yours.

 

For reference my 19mm rear bar measures 889mm at the outside extreme ends of the lever arms, whereas my 16mm rear bar measures 901mm at the same point (also 12mm difference at the end link hole centres).

 

I’m starting to suspect, but have no proof, that there was more than just a minor change to the Australian spec Liberty’s rear suspension (& possibly the USDM Legacy) in 2016. I have come across the following information (with my emphasis):

 

“... which has an extensive local testing programme that leads to a ride-and-handling tune unique to the Australian market.

Fine-tuning of the rear shock absorbers, with less impact harshness on sharp bumps has reduced Noise, Vibration and Harshness resulting in a more serene cabin environment.

The 2016 Liberty upgrade also includes subtle improvements to the rear suspension springs, bushes and moving the stabiliser bar forward. The overall result is a firmer, more settled rear end on coarse, rough surfaces, with better roll, pitch, dive and float control. The Liberty sits very flat when gobbling up the bends on tarmac with recovery from bumps immediate and without noise or jolting.”

 

Apologies for getting this thread slightly off-topic, in hind-sight a new thread would have been more appropriate.

You are wayyy over thinking this... [emoji6]

[andrew_l_s]

If it was 12 inches short you'd have a problem...

 

It's 12 mm, that's barely anything.

 

If it were a huge issue we'd all be having endlink failures, however as far as I know there has only been 1 reported failure and most likely it was a fluke/manufacturing defect.

 

The endlinks are designed to pivot, it's not like an excessive amount of stress is being put on them in a direction they're not designed to take it in.

 

If you're really that worried about it, keep it stock.

[XT-sub]

... If it were a huge issue we'd all be having endlink failures, however as far as I know there has only been 1 reported failure and most likely it was a fluke/manufacturing defect.

 

Unlike earlier Subarus I don’t see end link failures as being a concern with the later generation Subarus unless running really large rear bars (I don’t class the 19mm bar as large). The weak point has been the part of the rear subframe assembly that the rear bar D bush clamps bolt to which the Whiteline KBR15 sway bar mount supports were designed to support on 22mm & larger bars, according to a conversation I had with Whiteline Australia about 6 years ago.

 

There may not be reported wear (or failures) caused by the STi 19mm rear bar because the bars on the Australian spec 2016 Liberty & the USDM Legacys are possibly different (Ammcinnis posted that the lever arm length and attach point span on the 16mm & 19mm bars were dimensionally identical, whereas mine aren’t).

 

... The endlinks are designed to pivot, it's not like an excessive amount of stress is being put on them in a direction they're not designed to take it in.

Yep, I know quite well how Subaru suspensions work, & as above, the end links aren’t a concern.

 

... If you're really that worried about it, keep it stock.

I’ve never been worried. With the different end link angle on the 2016 Liberty caused by the shorter bar with shorter end links I just wondered if anyone has had any abnormal wear - that was my original question in my 1st post. If I see something that is different to what I am used to I start to think of any possible long term implications.

 

Anyway I seem to be going around in circles without an answer, so I’ll leave it there. Thanks everyone who supplied useful information.

Edited November 17, 2016 by XT-sub

[brandon.mol]

So just get the whiteline bar that comes with the braces and then you will have better handling AND you can sleep at night knowing your rear subframe sway bar bracket mounts are not going to cave in.

 

Plus the bonus of adjustments.... 21, 22, or 23mm effective diameter.

[XT-sub]

No problem sleeping, just pleasant dreams about how great a car our Liberty is.

 

I know what you mean about handling, but if I fitted the Whiteline 22mm adjustable I don’t think I would be in the good books with my better half anymore. With the goat track roads where we live even the 19mm bar makes the Liberty ride a lot harsher than the stock 16mm bar. For our roads the 19mm is a good compromise. I wish we had the roads like those in your area, they looked pretty good when I was in Alberta & BC a few years ago.

 

On a different point but related to the rear swaybar; why is the torque of the rear bar D bush clamp M8 bolts higher than the torque for the exact same bolts & fixtures on the SJ XT Forester? The below is taken from the relevant US SMs:

 

Gen6 Legacy & Gen5 Outback: M8 clamp bolts = 28.0 ft/lb. M10 end link to bar nut = 24.3 ft/lb.

SJ Forester: M8 clamp bolts = 22.1 ft/lb. M10 end link to bar nut = 28.0 ft/lb.

 

Can anyone see a reason for this? To me the Forester figures look correct & the Legacy figures look wrong. I believe 28.0 ft/lb is too high for those M8 bolts. Even the larger size clamp bolts which appear to be M10 on the Legacy’s front 21mm sway bar are only listed as 18.4 ft/lb.

[ammcinnis]

Can anyone see a reason for this?

 

In addition to fastener diameter, you have to consider its class and, to a lesser extent, its thread pitch. Most "ordinary" metric fasteners are class 8.8, but more highly stressed attachments (like suspension components) may often specify class 10.9 or 12.9 fasteners. Higher class fasteners will generally require higher torque. Note that while higher class fasteners are stronger, they are also less "tough" (i.e. more brittle) and possibly more subject to fatigue failure if not properly applied.

 

That said, torque values found in the Factory Service Manuals have occasionally been wrong.

Edited November 18, 2016 by ammcinnis

[fredrik94087]

No problem sleeping, just pleasant dreams about how great a car our Liberty is.

 

I know what you mean about handling, but if I fitted the Whiteline 22mm adjustable I don’t think I would be in the good books with my better half anymore. With the goat track roads where we live even the 19mm bar makes the Liberty ride a lot harsher than the stock 16mm bar. For our roads the 19mm is a good compromise. I wish we had the roads like those in your area, they looked pretty good when I was in Alberta & BC a few years ago.

 

On a different point but related to the rear swaybar; why is the torque of the rear bar D bush clamp M8 bolts higher than the torque for the exact same bolts & fixtures on the SJ XT Forester? The below is taken from the relevant US SMs:

 

Gen6 Legacy & Gen5 Outback: M8 clamp bolts = 28.0 ft/lb. M10 end link to bar nut = 24.3 ft/lb.

SJ Forester: M8 clamp bolts = 22.1 ft/lb. M10 end link to bar nut = 28.0 ft/lb.

 

Can anyone see a reason for this? To me the Forester figures look correct & the Legacy figures look wrong. I believe 28.0 ft/lb is too high for those M8 bolts. Even the larger size clamp bolts which appear to be M10 on the Legacy’s front 21mm sway bar are only listed as 18.4 ft/lb.

 

I don't know anyone who has taken a torque wrench to it.

[Milkywitness]

I am kind of nervous now...reading through this thread again. I bought the 20mm bar and it was delivered today, but now I feel like I should have gotten the WL 22mm bar. I guess I'll install later today when I get come.

[RobbieGT]

I am kind of nervous now...reading through this thread again. I bought the 20mm bar and it was delivered today, but now I feel like I should have gotten the WL 22mm bar. I guess I'll install later today when I get come.

 

I bought my WL 22mm used, paid $20 more than I would have if I bought the 20mm new. ZERO decrease in ride quality and a huge decrease in body roll. It's a win win.

 

One thing the Whiteline does is it has stabilizer bars that attach to the rear control arms, which further increases stability and stress on the end links. The 20mm doesn't do that.