hobo2701 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 i feel your pain ! received my rebuilt heads last week and they did a poor job packing them. they used one box and a pathetic amount of cardboard. left the exhaust manifold studs so they got 3 outa 6 studs are bent and part of the head there is a small u shaper section on lh head that i believe holds the cam position sense broke off the head. they are trying to get fed ex to do an insurance claim even its kinda both there fault but they sent me a new core and my builder is gonna swap the valve train. gotta built cars.. best of luck to ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 ouch. carelessness of people today is kinda sad^^ but what can you do? just sit along for the ride i guess lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo2701 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 ya that and not owning up to your own mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Sucks about the bearing. You know the normal causes, oil starvation, over revving. So, check the oil system just in case. On the cams, that too could be oil. That is what GSC will say. It could be something else too, but with the current cam situation I would tread lightly as to not get too deep in the fray. I would check it all out and go from there. If the cams appear to be a separate issue from the bearings then I would start calling around for more input from shops that have had cam issues. I too have had fresh motors last 1 tank of gas. Never a fun day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 not sure the cause in all honesty. thinking the spun bearing was the cause of it loosing oil pressure on the dyno. since the oil was hot from all the pulls it is thinner and with the extra clearances, the engine looses all oil pressure. i started the car cold and it has oil pressure but still knocks. drained and saw copper. dropped the pan and there was tons. he was revving the motor to 7500. shouldn't be an issue as heads are built and have a shimmed/ported 10mm oil pump. replacing rings bearings crank oil pump cams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Ouch man I came back for the final tune updates only to find typical EJ fails Stock or built those bearing do not treat us well With all the scoring are you worried about debris still in the block and head oil passages? I guess youll do an oil change within a few minutes of the first start up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 5, 2014 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2014 ^^if replacing rings I'm sure he'll have the whole block apart for cleaning. Bummer, OP. I hate seeing stuff like this. Hopefully you can get things sorted out. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Yes. Sending the heads and block to have them completely cleaned out. Again! :/ Only like 500$ in cleaning. Just add it to the bill I guess. Gotta pay to play. My aero(kognition wing and wasp composites cf front splitter) I was going to do will have to wait now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Catalyst. Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Bummer! These exotic builds definitely require patience, a little luck and a fat wallet! My aero(kognition wing and wasp composites cf front splitter) I was going to do will have to wait now. Well according to Enzo Ferrari, "Aerodynamics are for those who can't build engines.", so at least you have your priorities in line according to him My spec.B [#163] Project Thread with Pictures Get CryoTuned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Bummer! These exotic builds definitely require patience, a little luck and a fat wallet! Well according to Enzo Ferrari, "Aerodynamics are for those who can't build engines.", so at least you have your priorities in line according to him lol big wallet....i see it more as a empty bank account LOL lol. well, aero now a days, even on a 250-300 car makes a huge difference. but it helps a lot more when putting down big numbers. lol since i plan to track this more. i want as much downforce to stick the tires to the ground as possible. no point in making a lot of power if you can't put it to the ground. gotta find the "sweet spot" enough power and aero, plus driving experience. ill have 2 1/2 or the 3. lol. just need more experience than what i already have. but since this car is new to me(track wise) it'll take some getting used to aero is going on after the car is up and running and get some mileage on it. also got to get my suspension setup(alignment corner balance and race spec'd by this shop) and also front and rear race pads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 motor torn down, got the heads off the block. gotta send them out for cleaning and inspection to see what is salvageable and what needs to be replaced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rester5350 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Dude that sucks.... I think I'm about to sell my kelfords and order some pipers. Did you get any measurements of your clearances? What did your buckets look like? What are you going to be doing different on this build? Sorry for all the questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 well it wasn't a cam failure. it was something to do with the bearing clearances I'm assuming. builder claims its the dyno/tuners fault for the failure. but is willing to cover his labor to do it again... i call b/s but its either just suck it up and pay for the parts/cleaning. or get into a pissing match with him and potentially need to pay somewhere else to assemble. on top of all the damaged parts needing to be replaced and all the cleaning. do have some scoring on the cam journals, and some scuffing on the actual cam lobe, but it seems as if its oil loss related. if i have to replace cams, not sure what I'm going to do, as pipers are 1100$ compared to me paying 765$ for my gsc s2. this re-rebuild is gonna cost me like 2k just add it to the amount I've already spent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rester5350 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I feel your pain. I'm deep in my build and deeper in my pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 What type of break in was done prior to tuning or attempting tune? Was a base map provided so you could "break in" the cams and set the rings? Did you get a blue print with the motor? Or at least the assemblers notes on measurements? How did the oil pump look when you broke it down? I have seen the relief ports "seized" open and I have seen silicone blocking the out put port (on fresh builds). Hate to admit it, but with a turbo motor (and not knowing or having control over what the owner will do with it) it is hard to warranty. If I was in the same shoes, I think offering my labor for another engine assembly is about all I could do. Unless there was a "smoking gun" that pointed to a mistake I made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 Motor was given a base map to break in cams. I then towed car to church, he did the motor break in. Drove car home and put a few hundred miles on it before coming back for the final tune. When it ended up failing. He provided me all the specs of the build on a build sheet. I did notice that one of the Allen bolts on the heads was stripped out. Possibly from the shop he takes his heads to, to get machine work. I'm putting my money there was metal not cleaned out and that's what caused the failure. Which should be up to him to make it right wether if be getting some sort of reembursement from them. I don't ever expect him to pay all the parts. Just help out some. Maybe half. But when you got close to 2k in parts/cleaning. It's kinda a big hit to me. Relief port was closed when pulled and no excessive silicon from when I installed the oil pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 Talked to Jon from outfront and with telling him about that stripped plug he even agrees he thinks that is a very good possibility. Hopefully when outfront takes apart the block/heads for cleaning it'll point us to what caused the failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo2701 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 man o man gotta love these cars sometimes going to feel that much better when its all done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Good to hear the break in was done "proper". Never know as some customers try to get us to put the cars on the dyno as soon as we start them. I like 500-1000 miles on the motors (depends on motor and build) prior to going on the dyno. Allen bolt on the head stripped? Hmmm... Well, I would say you are owed a repaired thread on your head along with the labor to disassemble/assemble. You are now using John (OF)? Good. I have quite a bit of respect for the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 sorry for no updates. well theres quiet a bit of damange done. all signs point to possible something happening with the oil pump. as the gear has heat marks on it along with the house was pretty beat up. list to get it repaired cam journal scoring deemed the old heads non reusable. cams are toast (scoring and lobe damage) block main bearings 1 and 5 were beat to crap. now needing a line hone rod bearing 1 spun (resize rod) a few of the top wrist pin bushings were beat up, so those are getting sent to manley to be replaced. needed a new crank, cams (found used kelfords for 575$ so now i will be running kelford 199-c instead of the gsc s2) oil pump, new head casings and will be swapping over valves/springs/retainers, new bearings and rings. total cost with labor. pretty damn close to the 3k mark. not very happy with this, but its either spend the money(pay to play) or just ditch it and part out the car. just said screw it, I've went this far. so lets just get it done. ill have to put my kognition chassis mounted wing and wasp composites splitter on hold for a while. still need to get the motor running, suspension setup, purchase race pads before i can install the aero i want. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ thats all i need. ill take donations LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Oil pump, who would have thought that. What could have caused the oil pump to fail ? Good Luck 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 Not sure but since it was modified(shimmed/ported) it points to that. So not sure it something happened when he took it apart or what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rester5350 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I have a friend selling bnib s2 bc cams for $600. Idk if you are dead set on the kelfords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 BC are actually not bad. But, they are not "rated" the same as other brands. A BC stage2 is not a true 272/272. Not even close. FYI. Sorry to hear about the pump. I had to rebuild a motor assembled by (another unnamed shop) last month due to an oil pump failure. But it was far worse on that one. Relief was seized open, silicone blocking 30%+ of the output port. It was an installation/assembly error that cost two block halves, two heads, a set of cams and all the internals. I spoke with John (Outfront) again yesterday and he still swears he has not had cam issues like Dom has mentioned. I heard from a little birdy that Kelford has something new to show off at Subiefest too. I am assembling another motor with GSC stage2's now. Hope your next go-round is issue free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisthenewsic Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 yeah. bc 280 are like a 272 compared to other brands from what I've heard. my oil pump relief valve was closed, looked like something was binding inside the pump causing a shitload of head and causing the housing itself to death. i already got the new kelfords in my hands. and yeah hopefully this time around it lasts. we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.