5EAT Ask your Questions!?!

[seabass07]

It never messed with shift points for me. Even with extreme rt values. They'd only go up to about 400ish before reducing throttle for some reason, but my shift points remained the same.

[fahr_side]

I guess the logic differs a bit on different model years. Some ROMs have tables that limit maximum RT per gear, by IAT, by IAM. I've had to have a few custom definitions made to stop those interfering. Edited May 28, 2016 by fahr_side

[dawgtool]

I have a 2005 GT with auto which is throwing a tcu error code c0108. Speed sensor driver side front. I just replaced this sensor with a new Subaru part. I'm at a loss. Any thoughts?

[BL5BO]

Bringing this over from another forum:

 

3 weeks ago my car randomly threw a P0700 code (transmission control system malfunction). No sounds or stutter, trans fluid at normal level and color. So I cleared the code and went on with life. No problems since then.

 

Today, getting off of the highway, my car made a giant CLUNK sound while the transmission was down-shifting into first. P0700 code again, except this time my dash was flashing AT OIL TEMP. Checked trans fluid, still normal color and level. Limped the car home 35 miles (I know, stupid…but it was driving fine…and what’s done is done). 3 minutes before I pulled into my driveway the car was stuttering to shift at any gear, and the temp gauge shot all the way up. Turned the car off shortly after…

 

I had my trans fluid changed in March 2015, and my diff fluids changed May 2015. I drive maybe 13k miles per year

 

Any ideas?

 

I had this issue ONCE since i bought the car used last year. I was also driving down the highway, then all of a sudden the temp gauge shoots up and CEL comes on. I checked the coolant level, good. Inspected for any leaks, none. So, i cleared the code via Cobb AP. Then about 2k miles later my Radiator cracked up top, and went out, which i then replaced with a Mishimoto one.

[utc_pyro]

It does Just not in the simple way others do AND it uses injector pulse so bigger injectors having less pulse make it WORSE than stock

 

I have A2WC510C defined if you need an example

 

<table name="Calculated Engine Torque A" address="c1640">

<table name="Engine Load" address="c15d0" elements="13"/>

<table name="Engine Speed" address="c1604" elements="15"/>

</table>

 

Whelp time to figure out IDA

 

Does this table look the same in all '05-'06 roms?

 

So based on this, the older TCU is still reading the same can us values as the newer ones? Hum..

Edited June 6, 2016 by utc_pyro

[utc_pyro]

I did not even use IDA to find them... used ScoobyRom but I know what they look like obviously

 

Yes, pretty much the same process for the data table values.

 

Let me know which ECU and I can script it

 

Hum havent messed with ScoobyRom yet... It's now on my todo list

 

A2WF200C

[utc_pyro]

Ok found it.

 

<table name="Calculated Engine Torque A" address="c164C">
<table name="Engine Load" address="c15dC" elements="13"/>
<table name="Engine Speed" address="c1610" elements="15"/>
</table>

 

Looking at this table I have no idea what the range is and how the "engine load" is calculated. It goes from 1000 to 13000?

 

What is the variable "engine load" in this case, injector pulse width? I see four other tables that appear to be using the same data range and they look like the per cylinder fueling compensation tables.

 

I don't have IDA working nor experience with assembly on the SH02 processor, I'm presuming you divide the raw value by 1000 to get injector pulse width in MS? Then the value is something along the lines of the requested torque value?

Edited June 9, 2016 by utc_pyro

[west_minist]

Its estimated and added by the engine mapper. It tells thr tcu how much pressure to apply to the clutches and holding of gears. Edited June 9, 2016 by west_minist

[utc_pyro]

Its estimated n added by the engine mapper. It tells thr tcu how much pressure to apply to the clutches and holding of gears.

 

Sounds like I need to figure out IDA still

 

What does the equation that generates "N" use as it's input variables?

[west_minist]

Sorry. N= and

[west_minist]

Being able to program the tcu would be great. One day we can have powertrain solution that can do it. I still lack the time and a car to do so. Keep the good work up.

[utc_pyro]

Looking at an '06 FXT their tables is scaled similarly... Maxes out a 311 with a lower value in the X axis. That correlates closely to the rated torque in NM, just a little higher. The LGT is rated at something like 330NM, so again just a little higher. So I guess you'd want to start with scaling this table up to match the rough torque output of the modified system.

 

The ADM has two of these tables at it looks like a bunch of related tables. Did they get SI drive a lot earlier or is this "ECO" mode related?

 

Edit: Required reading http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9358

 

The value in this table are scaled based on the injector pulse width. This would explain a lot of the 5EAT failures you see when putting in new injectors.

Edited June 9, 2016 by utc_pyro

[fishbone]

Is there a TL;DR version for super busy dads? If I fire up ATR for my 2005, what tables am I looking at and what values am I changing? Or is that not even a thing?

I would love to get a Stage 2 E-Tune actually re-done, the one I have now is running a tad bit lean and based off the Cobb OTS Stage 2, and if I could roll some tranny-related tweaks in there that would be awesome. I just haven't had the time to see who is the game in town for awesome e-tunes, etc.

Edited June 9, 2016 by fishbone

[utc_pyro]

Is there a TL;DR version for super busy dads? If I fire up ATR for my 2005, what tables am I looking at and what values am I changing? Or is that not even a thing?

 

TL;DR: ECU tells the TCU a requested torque and estimated torque value. It uses these to set line pressure, shift speeds, and shift points. This table is the estimated torque table, the missing peace from the earlier ECU based tuning we were messing with on the '05-'06 cars. You can edit it to tell the TCU the motor is making more torque and it reacts accordingly. It reacts negatively to injector pulse width and scaling, so explains why stage 3 5EAT cars have more issues.

 

These tables aren't defined on the Cobb side of things, so you'd need to go open source. I've seen west_minst, fahr_side, and of course throttlehappy do tunes for people that adjust these values. PM them for etuneing with this table included.

Edited June 9, 2016 by utc_pyro

[utc_pyro]

Ok it looks like they figured out how the scaling works over on the Romriader forums. dschultz and NSFW descuss it here: http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8950&start=0

 

The upper row is base injector pulse width, and is calculated by multiplying the raw load and and the raw injector scaling. There are also a bunch of compensation tables that COULD be used but appear off in our roms. At least on dschultz outback the code actually went through them still so you could actually use them. Not sure if the comp tables are applied pre or post sending the torque value out the CAN bus though without IDA knoladge.

 

Also I seem to be seeing the shift retard tables, but I can't figure out which does what without knowing IDA. They look like the ones defined here:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1158&start=60

Edited June 9, 2016 by utc_pyro

[snow05gtRI]

what are the thoughts on tuning the shift stuff via the ECU and then also having the HexMods VB? Will it play nice? Worth it to do both?

[fishbone]

These tables aren't defined on the Cobb side of things

 

So for people using Accesstuner Race, there's nothing to be done?

[fahr_side]

Looking at an '06 FXT their tables is scaled similarly... Maxes out a 311 with a lower value in the X axis. That correlates closely to the rated torque in NM, just a little higher. The LGT is rated at something like 330NM, so again just a little higher. So I guess you'd want to start with scaling this table up to match the rough torque output of the modified system.

Yes, that's going in the right direction.

The ADM has two of these tables at it looks like a bunch of related tables. Did they get SI drive a lot earlier or is this "ECO" mode related?

 

Many have A and B tables of different sizes. I suspect the smaller ones are 'cruise' tables and are used when the TGVs are closed.

 

Edit: Required reading http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9358

 

The value in this table are scaled based on the injector pulse width. This would explain a lot of the 5EAT failures you see when putting in new injectors.

 

 

And so many people go straight to 1000cc injectors when (say) 750cc would have been enough, because they're almost the same price and 'having headroom is good'.

 

 

Sent from a device using some software.

[west_minist]

What I will advice is to have your tuner review all maps possible. Nothing wrong in asking questions. Where you are boosting more or differently or Turbo'ing an NA, these maps should be looked at.

[hadvw]

Wow - seems like I made the right "mistake" when going with used DW650s (they were cheaper) for my bnr16g, rather than bigger.. I now have a hexmods as well as a throttle-happy adjusted tune.

 

The car can absolutely rip off some amazing runs, say rolling at 20 in first, rev near limit, shift to 2nd, hard shift, keep revving, etc.. Sadly, it doesn't do it all the time - half the time, I get vague hunting, maybe almost slipping, etc.

 

Going from NA or S/C manual cars to auto turbo is like going from a well-trained army (yes sir, right NOW, sir!) to a group of guys with guns who like to shoot stuff (wait, you want me to do what? Are you sure? Really? Ok, I guess..). There are some really good runs in there, but it's so hard to know if it will happen this time, or if you'll bog down for some reason.. Definitely considering MT for my next car..

[utc_pyro]

Wow - seems like I made the right "mistake" when going with used DW650s (they were cheaper) for my bnr16g, rather than bigger.. I now have a hexmods as well as a throttle-happy adjusted tune.

 

If this table is stock in your tune, then that was a great "mistake". That said, it's fairly easy to scale out the correction of the injector scaling in this table. After fixing the scaling this is a g/rev load to RPM table like the newer cars. So bigger injectors would have just limited your resolution and made tuning harder with your tune.

 

The next question is how high you can scale things. People over at RR were having issues getting it over 380 or so. On a stage 2 car you're needing a value somewhere north is 420. I need to go figure out why the battery is dieing in my car and start flashing things. HG is blown so I can't really test shift performance yet but I can test ecu logic limits.

[snow05gtRI]

The car can absolutely rip off some amazing runs, say rolling at 20 in first, rev near limit, shift to 2nd, hard shift, keep revving, etc.. Sadly, it doesn't do it all the time - half the time, I get vague hunting, maybe almost slipping, etc..

 

I get similar results on a WOT 1>2 shift. I think it's just too much RPM climb for the trans to catch up and I get a bit of a lurch when second catches. kind of a buck, not a bang into gear really. buck describes it the best because that's what it looked like when it happened on the dyno.

 

I don't think it's slipping, I just think the shift isn't engaging fast enough for how fast the RPM climbs in first.

[snow05gtRI]

I'm no big can of tuna (tuner) so I will have to live with changing my driving to avoid what's happening

[utc_pyro]

Ok, I formatted the ECU Flash XML to make it usable. Open up your ECUFlash directory, and up this in the definitions file for your ROM.

 

So far I've checked this with A2WC521R, A2WC521C and A2WF200C. If you have another '05-'06 ROM let me know and I'll look. It's pretty easy to find in ScoobyRom, just look for the table who's X-Axis maxes out at 13000

 

<table name="Calc Engine Torque" category="UTC_Pyro Beta" address="c164c" type="3D" level="1" scaling="RequestedTorque(rawecuvalue)">
<description>Calculated Crank Engine Torque relative to [Load (G/rev) * (RAW) Injector scaling] vs RPM.</description>
<table name="Engine Load" address="c15dc" type="X Axis" elements="13" scaling="g/rev"/>
<table name="Engine Speed" address="c1610" type="Y Axis" elements="15" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>

 

A little bird said you can bump the value to to 415, but I have not verified that myself. Car has been in the shop for two weeks with no sign of coming out any time soon.

 

Now if someone could point me at the shift retard tables...

Edited June 30, 2016 by utc_pyro

[snow05gtRI]

^ is that directed to me?