The B4 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 So they canned the GT for 2013...well shit they diluted it and left it for dead for 2010+ anyways without any significant upgrades or updates who else isn't surprised or shocked by this? it sucks but the 5th gen GT sucks anyways compared to the 4th. I was hoping for a full redesign at least,my god the 5th is ugly. The problem with the 5th gen Leg is it's just too mainstream,it screams plain and anonymous. The 4th was a niche vehicle and it was special. So for 2013 it also gets a 3hp bump for the base? wtf...the base legacy should have atleast 180-200HP by now. Subaru please do geared automatics again please? stop with the CVT transmission bullshit!! nonsense PLEASE?!. How is it that the GT is gone but the 3.6 gets to continue on aswell? huh? atleast they still make that though and atleast it has a real automatic transmission,vs the BS CVT. Now if that came in a manual and a turbo H6 that would be siiick but for the 6th gen not 5th. Yes while the new one has a 6 speed manual vs the 4th gens 5spd and a CVT,vs the 4th gen 4 speed but so what? the 5th gen lost it's sportiness and driving dynamics and it's fcking huuuuge. What I don't get is the 2013 gets darker headlights,but the 12 WRX gets chrome?! huh? also by the way I took a look at a new 12 Impreza hatch,the other day it is fugly,it looks like a matrix,and the side mirrors look hideous. I do wonder and hope Ford atleast makes an AWD performance Fusion in the future,because it looks like the future of performance Legacys,are long gone. So they get rid of the GT and bring the XV sportcross over with the same anemic 148HP as the new Impreza? This doesn't make any sense. First the Legacy became ugly for 2010 and the Impreza for 2012,then possibly the 2013-14 Forester..atleast the BRZ is awesome,and i hope to god the next gen WRX will be too. Please Subaru be the niche brand you've always been,don't go mainstream otherwise you'll be just like Toyota and Honda!! How out of touch are you? A) The BM GT is faster in every measure than the BL except 0-60 and that is only because torque is limited in 1st and 2nd gears. B) The BM is dynamically better than the BL. It rolls less, has neutral handling, and tracks better C) The only vehicle in the segment with 180 - 200 hp is the Sonata. The Legacy has more torque than almost everything else in the segment. 198/184 2012 Sonata 178/170 2012 Camry 177/161 2012 Accord 175/172 2012 Fusion 175/180 2012 Altima 173/174 2013 Legacy 173/166 2012 Avenger 170/167 2012 Mazda 6 170/177 2012 Passat 169/160 2012 Malibu The 2013 Legacy has better city mpg than all but the Camry and Sonata (it's tied with the Sonata). It's tied or better for hwy mpg with all but the Malibu (+1), Accord (+2), Camry (+3), and Sonata (+3)... and it's doing it with AWD. D) With the CVT again? Many here have given their actual accounts of the CVT. Your hate for it is misguided. It's a smooth, efficient transmission. You have a 4EAT and you're complaining about the CVT? Credibility out the window. E) Styling opinions are subjective. Most find the Impreza much better looking than the outgoing car. F) Have you driven the Impreza? It's not anemic by any measure. It's slow, but a Corolla it is not. The XV Crosstrek is a global car. The rest of the world had an XV with the last gen Impreza. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 B) The BM is dynamically better than the BL. It rolls less, has neutral handling, and tracks better Can you dig up some slalom test numbers? C) The only vehicle in the segment with 180 - 200 hp is the Sonata. The Legacy has more torque than almost everything else in the segment. 198/184 2012 Sonata 178/170 2012 Camry 177/161 2012 Accord 175/172 2012 Fusion 175/180 2012 Altima 173/174 2013 Legacy 173/166 2012 Avenger 170/167 2012 Mazda 6 170/177 2012 Passat 169/160 2012 Malibu Most of that extra torque is hidden by the extra weight of the AWD system. None of those other cars have boxer engines, but you don't see that hurting their sales. Subaru offers few creature comforts compared to the other cars listed there. Most women who are the key decision maker for their family car will likely pick a better featured car, not the one with a few more ft/lbs of torque. D) With the CVT again? Many here have given their actual accounts of the CVT. Your hate for it is misguided. It's a smooth, efficient transmission. You have a 4EAT and you're complaining about the CVT? Credibility out the window. Weren't you defending SOA's choice to put the 4EAT into the Forester and Impreza when everyone was begging for 5EAT's? E) Styling opinions are subjective. Most find the Impreza much better looking than the outgoing car. Agreed, but it has never been a particularly good looking car. The new one has just as many quirks as the old one. That silly split driver's window is a start. F) Have you driven the Impreza? It's not anemic by any measure. It's slow, but a Corolla it is not. The XV Crosstrek is a global car. The rest of the world had an XV with the last gen Impreza. Any stats on how many Outback Sports sell compared to the regular Impreza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Can you dig up some slalom test numbers? Insideline: 61.1 mph BL GT 67 mph BL Spec.B 67.7 mph BM GT Most of that extra torque is hidden by the extra weight of the AWD system. None of those other cars have boxer engines, but you don't see that hurting their sales. Subaru offers few creature comforts compared to the other cars listed there. Most women who are the key decision maker for their family car will likely pick a better featured car, not the one with a few more ft/lbs of torque. The point was that Subaru is class competitive in power. It's actually not too bad off in weight either. Most of those cars are close in weight and several weigh more. Subaru offers more standard equipment for the money than pretty much everyone excluding the Koreans. That's without taking into account standard "quality" AWD and the economies of scale discrepancy. Subaru does fall down on available bells and whistles for sure. Weren't you defending SOA's choice to put the 4EAT into the Forester and Impreza when everyone was begging for 5EAT's? Let's not twist my words... Because they lag behind the industry in certain areas. For example, who the hell still uses 4EAT trannies nowadays A recent Motor Trend article comparing the Forester with the RAV4, CR-V and another couple cars I can't be bothered to remember placed the Forester last place I think because it didn't bring much new to the table. Sure, the car still remains one of the safest out there, with a kick-ass awd system, awesome Boxer engine, but don't tell me it wouldn't benefit from direct injection and more gears in that autotragic. Those are just a couple of things that come to mind. The Rav4 was not in that article and it still uses a 4EAT for the 4 cylinder model. They knocked it on power vs. the others and the 4EAT. It's funny that even being down on power and using a 4EAT, the Forester was still the lightest, had the best power to weight ratio, had the most ground clearance, smallest turrning radius, highest towing capacity, the most legroom, was .5s behind the quickest vehicle in 0-60 (and .1 behind both the others), was tied with the fastest for 45-65 mph acceleration, was .4s slower in the quarter of a mile than the fastest vehicle (.2 slower than the other two vehicles), had the shortest braking distance, had the highest skidpad, went through the figure eight test the quickest, had the lowest price, and had the best observed fuel economy. So even with the 4EAT the Forester was still very competitive. It needs the CVT more for marketing than anything else, but it would do wonders for better MPG and drivability. Nope, I threw the link up completely at random I am looking at the EPA rating of 20/26. I guess we are both right. That MT quote regarding mpg I didn't pull out of my ass, you know. There really is no need for you to nitpick. The question was why do they need to pick up their game and my response was that they lag behind in some areas. Nobody said you can't be the one that tows and hauls the most while also scoring big points in other areas. At the end of the day the MT article positioned the Forester comfortably as their last choice. I do not consider their articles the end all, be all, but I did choose them because they were also the ones that gave the Forester SUOTY. For the record the current Forrester is pretty much our future family car, but I wish it had the interior and transmission of the Outback. I have driven 4EATs before. They suck, period. I am holding out hope for a refreshed interior and some more tranny choices. And criticism means we actually give a shit about what the company is or isn't doing. I'm not one of those people that is blindly and mindlessly throwing crap at the new Legacy, Outback, etc. As a matter of fact I like the Outback but I think the styling does not fit the Legacy as well. It's just not the car for me, that doesn't mean it's a bad car, regardless of how much I may joke about it. Dual exhaust has been argued as a design choice to also deaden sound. It wasn't cosmetics, I find that hard to believe for Subaru to throw an extra muffler and piping on the car when they are cost cutting everywhere. I get what you're saying. I was making mention that despite the 4EAT... it was still competitive or best in class for almost everything. There's no question that Subaru should have thrown the CVT in it last year. I doubt the 2.5i Legacy and Outback need dual exhaust for deadening sound. If the extra parts cost only $10 x 100,000 Outbacks and Legacy's they'll probably sell in the US this year... that's $1 million saved right there. Agreed, but it has never been a particularly good looking car. The new one has just as many quirks as the old one. That silly split driver's window is a start. The split window is part of the reason the Impreza gets 36 mpg. The A pillar is moved forward and the windshield is raked to get better aerodynamics. The difference in where the a pillar was and where it is now is larger than the window is and can't be rolled up or down. Subaru could have stuck a massive black plastic piece there and fitted side mirrors in the normal spot, but they chose to turn it into extra visibility and move the mirrors to the best location for aero and visibility. I do agree the mirrors could have been styled better, but the split window is better than the alternative. Have you noticed BRZ has a split window and side mounted mirrors? http://www.car0-60.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/2013-Subaru-BRZ-Exterior-Front-Side.jpg Any stats on how many Outback Sports sell compared to the regular Impreza? nope... but it's a fast seller [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemo Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Boy I just love marketing speak this time of year. If you don't vote Trump, out, you're a bigot who hates america. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 How out of touch are you? A) The BM GT is faster in every measure than the BL except 0-60 and that is only because torque is limited in 1st and 2nd gears. B) The BM is dynamically better than the BL. It rolls less, has neutral handling, and tracks better A. as it is on every Subaru, either by the ECU or simply by not having a large enough load on the engine B. Rolls less? uh stock for stock they're both the Titanic. Neutral handling? :lol::lol::lol: IBSOABlogcallsmeatroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 look, I don't care what you guys say, Oprah is the hottest bitch on the planet! she's not fat, she's big-boned! she's not top heavy, she's shapely! blah, blah, blah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Here's some more data from a REAL magazine: Slalom through the years: 05 GT 64.9 (on crappy RE92 all seasons) http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/download/65787/1701799/version/4/file/CT_2004-Acura-TSX-vs-2005-Subaru-Legacy-GT-Limited_data.pdf 06 Spec B 67.2 http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/download/61126/1625836/version/4/file/CT_All-Wheel-Drive-Sport-Sedans_data.pdf 10 GT 67.2 http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/acura-tsx-v-6-vs.-subaru-legacy-2.5gt-limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 what do you mean?? subaru's unofficial PR troll doesn't have all the facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 B4- I don't always agree with you but thank you for at least posting in points and paragraphs. Much easier to read. Now, when is SOA going to let you tell us you work for them? I love the passion but there's no way it's JUST a family friend who you know at SOA. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 There's the facts... and all you can offer up is insult. pretty lame [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 B4- I don't always agree with you but thank you for at least posting in points and paragraphs. Much easier to read. Now, when is SOA going to let you tell us you work for them? I love the passion but there's no way it's JUST a family friend who you know at SOA. All it takes is some objectivity and research Here's some more data from a REAL magazine: Slalom through the years: 05 GT 64.9 (on crappy RE92 all seasons) http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/download/65787/1701799/version/4/file/CT_2004-Acura-TSX-vs-2005-Subaru-Legacy-GT-Limited_data.pdf 06 Spec B 67.2 http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/download/61126/1625836/version/4/file/CT_All-Wheel-Drive-Sport-Sedans_data.pdf 10 GT 67.2 http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/acura-tsx-v-6-vs.-subaru-legacy-2.5gt-limited even at the same speed... that only bolsters my case, bigger car, no bilstein suspension, still able to dance. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I see no insults, only facts, as you pointed out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 seriously? read your last post. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelino1968 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Maybe I'm a strange voice in the choir...but for me it is really not very credible that someone is able to post secreted fotos of a new and not-yet-to-be-revealed product. The official fotos are sooo well kept back, it's impossible that a temporary worker a) gets his hands on them and then b) can copy-paste the files anywhere on the web. I worked some 10 years for a multi-national German company, no way our data entries/ backoffice/ secretaries/ even mid-level employees could access this data. All were stored/protected/encrypted as needed by importance - You know the saying "The occasion creates the thief" ! No occasion, no damage. To me, a good way to create buzz....viral marketing has a lot of ways to reach the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 the pictures he posted were cell phone pics. The Legacy's hood was popped. This would happen at any large company. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Maybe I'm a strange voice in the choir...but for me it is really not very credible that someone is able to post secreted fotos of a new and not-yet-to-be-revealed product. The official fotos are sooo well kept back, it's impossible that a temporary worker a) gets his hands on them and then b) can copy-paste the files anywhere on the web. I worked some 10 years for a multi-national German company, no way our data entries/ backoffice/ secretaries/ even mid-level employees could access this data. All were stored/protected/encrypted as needed by importance - You know the saying "The occasion creates the thief" ! No occasion, no damage. To me, a good way to create buzz....viral marketing has a lot of ways to reach the target. nope, actual pics & there is a very good chance that teh B4 actually got him fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 nope, actual pics & there is a very good chance that teh B4 actually got him fired. :lol::lol::lol::lol: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeondacouch Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Why does anyone still care about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 :lol::lol::lol::lol: yes, it's hilarious, isn't it. to be out of work in this economy is a real humerous punch line to all of this. I guess the hilarity would really ensue if you lost your job I'll he for that and have a real hardy laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 you are crazy if you think I had anything to do with him getting fired. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zambazil Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The next gen WRX will be getting a turbo version of the BRZ's FA20 with direct injection. A new LGT in the pipeline would be awesome and fantastic news hopefully it will return after a short hiatus. Hopefully by the time the 6th gen comes out it'll return. The only cars that will be sharing the FB20-25 will be the Impreza,Forester and Legacy. Although i am curious as to why the Impreza only has 148HP vs the outgoing 11's 170. Maybe it'll get some tweaks and upgrades here and there for 13? Hey I guess I stand corrected, I did see some mention that wrx will get the FA20, and you're right according to that article. But I'm also hoping and dreaming of that same LGT in your post. Anyway, think would be more appropriate to compare the EJ and the FB - both in 2.5L configuration. The one on the new impreza is 2.0L version and the 2.5L is on the new legacy. Subaru came up with the FB primarily for efficiency, and there was some mention about future turbocharging (legacy GT perhaps). Wishful thinking.. but it might be one of subaru's future "quirky" endeavors which they're known for. Just for reference: http://wot.motortrend.com/breaking-news-next-gen-subaru-wrx-to-get-turbo-2-0-liter-targeting-270-hp-143875.html http://www.caranddriver.com/news/subaru-fb-series-engine-subaru-flat-four-engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 you are crazy if you think I had anything to do with him getting fired. I am crazy. it doesn't make it less plausible & certainly doesn't make you seem like less of a douche for finding humor in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeondacouch Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 http://imageftw.com/uploads/20120330/cancer.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dga Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'd like a 2-liter turbo diesel please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 even at the same speed... that only bolsters my case, bigger car, no bilstein suspension, still able to dance. Uh I would hope in 4 years they'd be able to figure out how to make the car transition no slower than it did before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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