ChefRacer Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 How can you say that a performance BRZ would cannibalize other sales, its a totally different platform than anything else that subaru sells. Yes the STI is a high performance segment car, but it isn't RWD which is a different market, and it isn't a 2 door coupe which is also a different segment. Saying that they shouldn't make a high performance version of it is like saying that they already have the forrester, so they should stop making the outback, or even that because they are selling the STI, they shouldn't sell the WRX. If FHI can increase their market share from being a niche automaker, and take 350Z sales, take G35 Coupe Sales, and take Genesis Coupe sales with a HI-PO version of this car, then it makes a hell of alot of sense. If people are willing to pay $35k for a JCW mini cooper coupe with only 205 hp, then a 300 hp rwd subaru coupe should be able to do well without really taking away from WRX, LGT and STI sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Here's my wacky ass opinion on the BRZ. Subaru wanted a two door sports car platform build on and needed Toyota's expertise. Toyota wanted the low cg and durable boxer engine in their Scion lineup. Subaru benefits by getting more production from Toyota. Subaru keeps their people working. I think the BRZ is a great product for Subaru dealers in southern markets where awd isn't a major selling point. Truthfully, I wouldn't own a Subaru if I lived down south and primarily drove paved roads. This opens new doors for Subaru dealers in my opinion and is fantastic. AWD is great is areas you need it, but drives up the cost with the addtional raw materials, engineering, manufacturing, service, installation, etc. Subaru has done great with their line up and adding a two door rear wheel drive sports car to their current line up will add some sales. The limited sales aren't going to drastically change Subaru though. I'll get off my soap box now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Turbocharged Scion spotted. http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied_vehicles/coupes/1201_turbocharged_scion_fr_s_prototype_spotted_during_testing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonwacker Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Turbocharged Scion spotted. http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied_vehicles/coupes/1201_turbocharged_scion_fr_s_prototype_spotted_during_testing/ Most likely Scion's new drifting machine...which makes this as useful as a look at Scion's future plans as Tanner Foust's RWD tC with a TRD NASCAR truck V8 was two years ago... sorry...this forum practically blows goat nuts so im not always on here.Team Pony Express POSTED FROM MY COMPUTER USING A WEB BROWSER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Motion Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 doubt it will make it to production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Well I just spoke to a friend of mine who works at a subie dealership, and he has heard rumors of a twin turbo setup to minimize turbo lag and maximize responsiveness. I would guess that it won't have too much top end power, but it should be pretty damn smooth down low. I'm guessing 275-300 hp if they go in this direction, I guess we'll all see what happens TT setups are loooooong gone the last successful ones out of Japan were the 2JZ-GTEs and the GT-BNR34s ... ah the good old days TT likely is a bad rumor seeing as Subaru already has shown the world the new turbo layout it is implementing going forward. I would say a STI edition is imminent as they already have a very real concept on display. http://media.caranddriver.com/images/11q4/426963/subaru-brz-concept-sti-photo-430213-s-520x318.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 BMW did a good job on the TT V8 in the current 750. Audi too in the 3L diesel they put in the Q7. Subaru never did a good job with twin turbos. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 BMW did a good job on the TT V8 in the current 750. Audi too in the 3L diesel they put in the Q7. Subaru never did a good job with twin turbos. BMW didn't do too good on some N54 twin turbos, but it was mainly fuel pump related. http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/bmw-admits-fuel-pump-flaw-turbo-cars/story?id=11968495 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 BMW didn't do too good on some N54 twin turbos, but it was mainly fuel pump related. http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/bmw-admits-fuel-pump-flaw-turbo-cars/story?id=11968495 A) the N54 isn't the engine I'm talking about. B) a fuel pump issue has nothing to do with whether it was a good turbo setup. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 A) the N54 isn't the engine I'm talking about. B) a fuel pump issue has nothing to do with whether it was a good turbo setup. Geeotto was talking about tt's in general. I know you were talking about others. I also pointed out that the tt BMW had fuel pump problems. Still had problems engineering that tt to run properly. You are right about the others though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Then you should have quoted him. The fuel pump is exclusive of the twin turbo arrangement. The fuel pump failure is not an engine shortcoming. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Then you should have quoted him. The fuel pump is exclusive of the twin turbo arrangement. The fuel pump failure is not an engine shortcoming. Did I say it was an "engine" problem or "engineering"? Thought I said engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Did I say it was an "engine" problem or "engineering"? Thought I said engineering. And I thought Gee-Otto was talking about TT setups? Fuel pump has nothing to do with doing a good job on a TT setup. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight705 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 TT setups are loooooong gone the last successful ones out of Japan were the 2JZ-GTEs and the GT-BNR34s ... ah the good old days did you forget, the current GT-R a TT setup. so TT setups are still around, it just isn't as common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 And I thought Gee-Otto was talking about TT setups? Fuel pump has nothing to do with doing a good job on a TT setup. Evidently fuel pumps do have something to do with a TT set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 You can keep saying that, but you are still wrong. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 You can keep saying that, but you are still wrong. Yeah you are right. The fuel delivery system is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 When talking about "doing a TT setup successfully", that's correct. The success or failure of the turbo setup does not hinge on the fuel pump. You realize that you are saying that the TT setup on the N54 is bad, because some fuel pump failures exist. So the cars without fuel pump failures, are still unsuccessful twin-turbo setups? [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 When talking about "doing a TT setup successfully", that's correct. The success or failure of the turbo setup does not hinge on the fuel pump. You realize that you are saying that the TT setup on the N54 is bad, because some fuel pump failures exist. So the cars without fuel pump failures, are still unsuccessful twin-turbo setups? Just pointing out that BMW had problems with one of their twin turbo cars because of the fuel delivery system. BMW's claim to produce a well engineered car and are a respected performance car company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 BMW had fuel pump problems on the N54 equipped cars, not the result of a poorly setup Twin Turbo configuration. The car could have had a single turbo, or been N/A and suffered the same problems. VW, in fact, did have that same HPFP problem with the GTI and TDI cars. Not the result of a poorly designed twin-turbo setup. Hmm, now that I think about it, there are plenty of successful multi-turbo setups on the market today. BMW does it well, Bugatti did it great on the Veyron, Nissan on the GT-R, VAG on the Touareg/Q7 TDI, The 2011 S63 AMG went successfully from an N/A 6.3L V8 to a TT 5.5L V8. Ford's ECOBOOST V6, even, is quite nice to drive. I can't think of a single, currently available twin turbo setup that is poorly sorted out, actually. Most seem quite well worked out, actually. Subaru, however, has never been able to make a properly organized twin-turbo setup. Those old TT cars were OK, but suffered from a term they coined as the "valley of death". I've actually had the opportunity to drive one (it was imported to the USA), and the stories about the VoD are quite accurate. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 BMW had fuel pump problems on the N54 equipped cars, not the result of a poorly setup Twin Turbo configuration. The car could have had a single turbo, or been N/A and suffered the same problems. VW, in fact, did have that same HPFP problem with the GTI and TDI cars. Not the result of a poorly designed twin-turbo setup. Hmm, now that I think about it, there are plenty of successful multi-turbo setups on the market today. BMW does it well, Bugatti did it great on the Veyron, Nissan on the GT-R, VAG on the Touareg/Q7 TDI, The 2011 S63 AMG went successfully from an N/A 6.3L V8 to a TT 5.5L V8. Ford's ECOBOOST V6, even, is quite nice to drive. I can't think of a single, currently available twin turbo setup that is poorly sorted out, actually. Most seem quite well worked out, actually. Subaru, however, has never been able to make a properly organized twin-turbo setup. Those old TT cars were OK, but suffered from a term they coined as the "valley of death". I've actually had the opportunity to drive one (it was imported to the USA), and the stories about the VoD are quite accurate. Yeah I was just messing with you by posting BMW had problems with their twin turbo even though it was with the fuel pump. Knew you would get defensive. Wanted to make sure your heart was pumping. I always enjoy your posts. Keep em coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yeah I was just messing with you by posting BMW had problems with their twin turbo even though it was with the fuel pump. Knew you would get defensive. Wanted to make sure your heart was pumping. I always enjoy your posts. Keep em coming. Nice try. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmmrdwn Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Nice try. Yeah I know weren't falling for the ole banana up the tail pipe trick. You are way too smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eehpeehthreeh Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Someone posted this link on NASIOC which shows a little more of the U.S. spec BRZ. The only differences I really see are the LED running lights above the fogs (though we already knew of that prior), more shots of the nav system being used, and controls on the steering wheel. I like that it's getting these small Subaru touches when comparing it to the FR-S. http://www.crawfordperformance.com/news/db_imgview.cgi?linkID=100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boymk123 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DAHFQnyX0C0 for those who yapped about the BRZ, this is what the car does:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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