Do you really hate your 5EAT and why?

[melayout]

I'm sure that MT shifts faster, or else the 0-60 figures quoted wouldn't always be with the manual.

 

Not true, you get a better 0-60 in the 5MT because you can rev the engine to 5000 or over, get into boost and slip/dump the clutch on it, which gives you better launches compared to the 5EAT where it is limited by the stall speed of the torque converter, since it can't reach 3500rpm or above where boost is really on, and therefore the launch is not as fast as an 5MT.

 

Install a high-stall TQ and you will be smoking 5MTs all day long, without blowing up your tranny.

[meathead]

Holy Moly. 5 Pages in less than a day! This is exhausting.

 

I bought my auto because I wanted it. I was willing to sacrifice the "n"th degree of performance for the convenience of not having a clutch to deal with in the incessant NJ traffic, and my wife can drive the car now also without fearing hills. The 5EAT is good enough to satisfy my performance wishes, and give me comfort to boot. I acknowledge I will lose in a drag race to a 5mt. But how many drag races am I going to do? Not too many I reckon. Personal decision. Lazy? I don't think so.

 

Jesse

Totally agree. I owned 3 Mustang GT 5 speeds over a 10 year period. A lot of fun, but a pain the a** in So. Cal. traffic. I test drove both the MT and AT. My conclusions:

 

MT is definatley quicker with an experienced driver under sprited driving.

AT much better for So. Cal. driving and commuting w/o giving up that much performance.

My wife can drive it in case of an emergency or too many adult beverages.

I use it as a company car and it is easier to take out clients w/o jamming through the gears.

I scan still use manumatic to smoke most ricers and 3 series.

 

Enough said. Got the 5EAT and have NO regrets. To each his own.

[bdisco]

I had a WRX with the 5sp MT and it was fun to bang/row thru the gears. It was a car that like to go fast "beat me harder, Thank you sir, may I have another". However the few times I was stuck on the MASS Pike into Boston 1st gear crawl no fun at all. Oh and let me tell you about the clutch shudder, judder, studder problem better yet use search. I have seen the future and my future/present is AUTO.

[stewthebassman]

Totally agree. I owned 3 Mustang GT 5 speeds over a 10 year period. A lot of fun, but a pain the a** in So. Cal. traffic. I test drove both the MT and AT. My conclusions:

 

MT is definatley quicker with an experienced driver under sprited driving.

AT much better for So. Cal. driving and commuting w/o giving up that much performance.

My wife can drive it in case of an emergency or too many adult beverages.

I use it as a company car and it is easier to take out clients w/o jamming through the gears.

I scan still use manumatic to smoke most ricers and 3 series.

 

Enough said. Got the 5EAT and have NO regrets. To each his own.

 

All true, especially the last point!

[SWortham]

I read through this thread pretty quickly and didn't see this stated clearly. Essentially, the performance advantages of an auto vs manual depends on the car.

 

Generally speaking, this is how it is...

Manual / Automatic

Less Drivetrain loss / More drivetrain loss

Slower shifts / Quicker Shifts

 

There are plenty more factors at stake here. But when it comes to a high-horsepower drag car, you see better performance out of a good Automatic because the quick shifts save enough time to more than make up for the drivetrain loss.

 

However, with most passenger cars the drivetrain loss is the bigger factor. You can attribute that to the lower horsepower #'s, and the less performance-oriented automatics which are designed to shift smoothly.

 

In the Legacy GT's case, I'm sure the automatic is the slower car.

[TSiWRX]

Whew - just read through the entire thread...dunno why I keep on doing that....

 

Can one of the mods/admin please make a "5EAT vs. 5MT, facts, lies, opinions, rumors, and general debates" reference Sticky thread, link it to all of these arguments we've had in the past, and just lock it at that, and lock future non-technical related debates on this?

 

- A

[robmarch]

Before everyone flames me, I will state that both vehicles I've owned in my lifetime have been manuals, first the Challenger and now my trusty '94 Honda Accord EX sedan 5-speed. I will agree with some on this board who stated that you truly do tend to pay more attention when you are driving a manual. I firmly feel that the process is more involving, which keeps you focused on the task at hand, which is driving. Never mind the sense of control that you feel from driving a manual.

 

Unfortunately, I have gotten sick and tired of sitting in 10-mile long stretches of bumper to bumper traffic on such fine roads in NJ as the Garden State "Parking Lot" and Route 287 during peak hours. My aggravation has finally boiled over to the point that I WILL NOT be buying another manual with my new car purchase this summer/early fall. The constant clutch work just makes an already obnoxious commute to work even worse. Being that the majority of my driving now falls under these crappy conditions, I just can't bring myself to buy another (for my daily driver anyway).

 

I'll miss driving a manual on many occasions, and I envy all of you guys who have more open roads to drive on. Hopefully, I'll be able to afford the fun car soon as well for weekend road work, but until then, I'm eyeing a 5EAT (will they make the spec-b in EAT) Legacy GT, or the new IS350 with the 6-speed auto with paddle shifters (I know, different class of car, but I can afford it now). I've just heard that BMW has cancelled the SMG box for the new '06 330i, which had been my first choice.

 

And from a driver who still is biased towards manuals, I will say that on my back to back test runs of a stick LGTL and then the 5EAT, the manual was more fun, and did feel a bit quicker in the seat of the pants, but damn, the 5EAT was definitely the most fun true "automatic" I've ever driven. I liked that I could keep both hands on the wheel while power sliding around corners, shifting with the buttons as I needed (I wonder if they'll ever let me test drive cars there again - I swear I brought them both back to the lot with the smell of burning rubber and brakes).

 

So, to each their own. They are both great choices.

 

good inputs, very similar to the place I'm at with my commute. sounds like the 5EAT is a good automatic, once you accept the negatives that come with switching to an automatic.

[SoldonSubie]

 

SoldonSubie, you are forgetting that those loaners haven't had the opportunity to "learn" the style of driving for each driver. Once the car learns your driving style, the shift would change to match your driving. Also if the both of us had to drive in 25 miles of bumper to bumper traffic everyday, you would truly understand the true advantage of an auto.

 

I had one loaner for over 300 miles and it still was a dissapointment. How much do you have to teach it?

 

I do agree with you, if I were in true stop-and-go traffic I'd go with the 5EAT. For me the worst traffic get I'm able to move reasonably well by keeping the car in 2nd and 3rd.

 

I agree, we make the choice that's best for us.

[stewthebassman]

I had one loaner for over 300 miles and it still was a dissapointment. How much do you have to teach it?

 

I do agree with you, if I were in true stop-and-go traffic I'd go with the 5EAT. For me the worst traffic get I'm able to move reasonably well by keeping the car in 2nd and 3rd.

 

I agree, we make the choice that's best for us.

 

I think although I am not sure (never tried it) that the manual shifting in the Legacy is better than my ex-2004 BMW 325i, even with Mods, AND any of the other Subie MTs, am I right?

[Tommunist]

I think although I am not sure (never tried it) that the manual shifting in the Legacy is better than my ex-2004 BMW 325i, even with Mods, AND any of the other Subie MTs, am I right?

 

i have no way of telling for sure but i find that unlikley

[stewthebassman]

I think although I am not sure (never tried it) that the manual shifting in the Legacy is better than my ex-2004 BMW 325i, even with Mods, AND any of the other Subie MTs, am I right?

 

Talk about a subjective question, eh? Better bury that one!

[rpm-wrx]

This is perfect for this thread!!

[Enlight]

hahahahaha... that's terrible, shame on you.

[rony]

This is perfect for this thread!!

 

+1

 

/nod

[trm]

manual 0-60 = 5.7-5.8 sec.

 

auto 0-60 = 6.3-6.5 sec.

 

on equaly build quality cars.

 

it's just the fact....the physics.....nothing to debate here....

 

now the choice are ours.....just enjoy the car.....

[bcbaohio]

Yes enjoy the cars. Hey if my crappy MT ends up failing on me as was mentioned about 2 pages back in the thread, I'll have to install that STi 6MT that I wanted so bad.

[wukindada]

trm, Where do you get those #'s? You are correct with the manual but the auto is 6.1(sport)6.2(auto) per *edmunds

[Colonel Angus]

i challenge anyone with a manual or auto gear box, to race against a human sneeze.

 

 

i will put my money down on the sneeze, any day of the week.

 

manual or auto aint got nothin on sneezes, yo

[Dsfa]

I would have loved to get the MT sometimes I wish really did but only once in a while. The two reasons I got the AT are its a lot easier to get a remote starter (which I did ) and the G/F cant drive a stick and I was not going to teach her on my new car!

[Compressed]

This is my reply from another thread and I find it equally relevant here. I can't believe this topic keeps coming up, seems like the 5mt guys just can't drop it

 

---

I've been an ardent supporter of manual transmissions for my entire life. Even before I was driving I snobbishly looked down at friends parents who had automatics. All my cars to this point at age 29 have been manuals. My last car, a 98 RS had a lightened flywheel and was a joy to drive, when driving aggresively.

 

Then I had a rental car, a crappy sentra that was automatic, I noticed I was much calmer in traffic and commuting when operating that vehicle. I liked that. I also enjoyed the fact that my left leg wasn't getting an unbalanced workout compared to nothing for my right. You see I am a competitive cyclist and need to keep strength balanced in my lower limbs for optimal performance. Also after 100 mile rides or big races, clutching for hours coming home is a major PITA. These are all lifestyle factors that influenced my decision for a 5eat in my new GT wagon.

 

I have found in my test drives that the manual mode gives me the best of both worlds concerning transmission dynamics. Yes I lose some power, and takeoff is slower, but the difference is truly negligible for anyone but those competing in their vehicles. If that is important to you a 5mt is the way to go, however if you just enjoy a quick well balanced vehicle the score becomes much closer. I believe that manual mode auto shifts are actually faster than the 5mt can hope to be even with the best driver. It may seem slow but that view can be easily skewed as you are not doing anything after requesting the shift, whereas in a 5mt you must clutch etc, down shifting when compared with a double clutching technique is definitely faster in 5eat.

 

So really it is about what makes you happy. If you want the fastet 0-60 go 5mt, absolutely, however from a roll things begin to get a lot closer. Certainly close enough to elicit a similiar seat of the pants feel, which is all that is important to me as I am not racing and will not street race. So the comparisons are physical in nature as to my reactions to the dynamics of the car which are very close once moving.

[mach_six]

I bought an AT so anyone in my family can drive it. I never driven a MT so I can't say. But I know I would like a MT in traffic everyday, I can't even stand it in an AT.

[gt_ltd]

all my previous cars were MT and there were times that i was very exhausted after too many hours of work and wished i had an automatic on my way home.

[Bretm1]

i know the stats for 0-60 etc seem to favor the mt and the mt represents the only "real" way to drive a sports car, but after seeing the way and participating in the high speed launches that are needed to get these times (on any manual)i am convinced that in normal driving that this 5eat will keep up once under way with the best of all of the manuals. to me it seems if the person with the mt doesn't do a 4500-5000 rpm launch they're going to have a difficult time staying ahead of an equally powered (and in subaru's case an equally gear ratio) at car.

[Runner999]

My 0.02 on this.

 

I had gone back and forth with my decision in getting the 5EAT cost factor aside after owning MT cars all my life. The 0-60 thing with the MT is good for armchair bragging rights, but on public roads the AT has made more sense to me now. The AT is smooth when I have guest(s) in the car or driving in the city. It's also great when I need a free hand looking for a radio station, adjusting temperatures or fishing for CD's not to mention the occasional traffic jam I've run into.

 

 

The LGT 5EAT may not be initially as fast off the line as a MT but when driven in manual sport shift mode, it shifts very fast up and down gears which has greatly improved with use (must be that learning thing the tranny goes through). It's like any MT I've own in the sense where I needed to learn how to drive it smoothly and in the power band. Very challenging and very entertaining. Once underway way, it's a lot of fun keeping it on the boil when I feel I can get away with it safely. Plus my LGT Ltd 5EAT is getting over 21 true MPG with aggressive secondary road driving.

 

 

Don't knock the 5EAT till you've driven and really explored it for a few months. The 5EAT is a very flexible gearbox.

[Ken S]

 

And from a driver who still is biased towards manuals, I will say that on my back to back test runs of a stick LGTL and then the 5EAT, the manual was more fun, and did feel a bit quicker in the seat of the pants, but damn, the 5EAT was definitely the most fun true "automatic" I've ever driven. I liked that I could keep both hands on the wheel while power sliding around corners, shifting with the buttons as I needed (I wonder if they'll ever let me test drive cars there again - I swear I brought them both back to the lot with the smell of burning rubber and brakes).

 

So, to each their own. They are both great choices.

 

Couldn't have said it any better. I ended up buying a 5EAT with the exact same perspective. Having been biased towards manuals all my life, the 5MT is more fun, but the flexibility and performance of the 5EAT more than make up for it. If I had the budget, I'd get one of each, but in real life 5EAT>5MT for many folks.

 

Also, one other reason for going with 5EAT was that Subaru didn't offer the 6MT with the LGT. Reinforced or not, the 5MT is still based on a 20-year old design.

 

Here's some interesting reading: http://www.subaru-global.com/about/parts/05.html

The basic design for the 5-speed transmission currently fitted to the Legacy and Impreza has been in use before these models appeared and dates back to the Leone era.

 

The Leone era was about 20 years ago. Designed with careful thought and developed with attention to detail, the manual transmission has been mass-produced over a long time and has matured well. The manual transmission is a symbol of the excellence of Subaru technology.

 

However, in the developmental stages of the New Impreza WRX STi, the transmission was required to change to a 6-speed transmission designed to draw out the engine power to its maximum, strengthen gears to cope with greater torque, as well as provide an even greater performance for gear shift operation with short responsive stroke and fresh alive feeling for sports driving.

 

Between the issues I had with my Forester S 5MT and all the problems you read about at NASIOC with the WRX, I just didn't want to find out how it would hold up with a 250HP engine.

 

Ken