Do you really hate your 5EAT and why?

[Scooterman]

Right but those look like at the wheels numbers to me. How can you confirm that those are at the crank? Here in the US both are rated at 250 250 at the crank.

 

I am not meaning to argue with you at all, it just doesn't seem to make sense. Subaru would claim a lower HP then just like Infiniti used to with the G35's. But that isn't the case. I dunno................

 

You seem confused. As some one else pointed out the Australian version are the 2.0 twin scroll turbo. Originally only the EAT was available with 180KW (242hp in US horse power - Iused HP so as not to confuse you with KW's which is 1.34hp). When the MT was made available as a special order vehicle it came with 190KW (255hp) due to different tuning, nothing to do with the transmission.

 

So as I said, for us in OZ the argument about which is faster is less academic as the MT is rated at 5.7s (0-62mph) and the AET 6.8s - so the manual IS FASTER.

 

Hope that clears it up for those confused (#'s are Subaru's own in KW/HP at the crank and accel is 0-100kmh which is 0-62mph)!

[melayout]

Scooterman, I respectfully disagree, sRt-4 15 fA5tEr.

[Scooterman]

Scooterman, I respectfully disagree, sRt-4 15 fA5tEr.

 

[Slickvic]

Nobody said or hinted at the idea that the Automatic USDM GT has a detuned 2.5 Turbo engine.

 

Um yes....sort of. Both the automagic and manual USDM LGT have the same rated 250BHP/250LBft torque which comes from a detuned version of the 2.5 motor used in the STI.

(Confused yet)

 

anyways what i was trying to say is WHP and BHP are the exact same thing.

 

Um, No. Brake horspower is the rating at the flywheel (I.E on an engine stand in a labrotory) Measured with a braking dynometer.

Wheel HP is measured at the wheels as installed in the car taking into account the parasitic losses of the drivetrain.

 

The reason some other manufacturers have differing horsepower ratings in the manual vs auto trans equipped vehicles is because the auto trans in most cases cannot handle the power. (Early Acura NSX 270HP manual vs 250HP auto) Or in the case of the Mazda RX-8, the auto trans cannot handle the 9,000RPM redline and so was restricted to 7,00RPM max.

 

The 5EAT we have as designed by Prodrive is a very stout unit and would not be restricted unless the engine made excess of 300+ HP.

[melayout]

Scooterman - The Dodge Srt-4 is a Dodge Neon with a turbo engine and manual rear-windows. The phrase "sRt-4 is FaStAr" is used to imply in a sarcastic manner that the sRt-4 is the fastest object in the world when in fact it is rolling piece of gheybage.

 

Um yes....sort of. Both the automagic and manual USDM LGT have the same rated 250BHP/250LBft torque which comes from a detuned version of the 2.5 motor used in the STI.

(Confused yet)

 

Nope, it is irrelevant since the discussion is about which transmission is better/fAsTeR on the USDM LGT.

[Scooterman]

I have actually been in a Neon so I can appreciate your sarcastic remark now I understand the code

[melayout]

If you luv your 5EAT, don't read further.

 

I started hatin automatic transmissions since I found out how they work, specifically torque converters.

 

The power from the engine is indirectly transmitted to the drivetrain at the torque converter through the circulation of the ATF Fluid!!!

 

Check out http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter1.htm

 

Ugghh, watta disgusting inefficient power whore..

 

No more slush-boxes for moi.

[emorphien]

Well duh.

 

Glad you finally figured out how they work.

 

Still I don't care, autos have their place and I'm sure I'll own an auto down the road again.

[IwannaSportSedan]

yup. Autos have a place. In my pickup. At least most vehicles have a lockup torque converter, so above any kind of bicycle pace, the driveline is physically connected. But the power-robbing theif of a torque converter still is a viscous coupling at lower speeds.

 

A cool illustration of how a torque converter works... Get two oscillating fans of about the same size. Put them "face to face". Plug one in, and turn it on, leave the other unplugged. See how both of them turn, as one drives the other through the low viscousity of the fluid, in this case, air. Liquid is more dense and thus more direct, but the principle is the same.

 

Then Stick a blocking instrument into the un-powered fan (certainly not the powered one! Safety First!) and see it stop relatively easily, what you won't see it the air cavitating around the stopped fan blades, having lost it's effectiveness. That is the nature of a fluid connection. And the innefficiency of it (Air going around the blades, Kinetic energy being turned into heat, rather than motion, etc. Although the torque converter is much more controlled and contained.) is why the un-powered fan will never have quite the same speed as the powered fan.

 

A lock up converter basically would be like the powered fan having a centrifugal clutch attachment at the hub that would reach out and connect to the other fan's hub, and above a certain rotational speed, the clutch would engage, and the powered fan would drive the other fan directly, not just by fluid dynamics, and some of that parasitic loss would be avoided.

 

Autos may have a place, and a large one at that, but for me, automatic transmissions certainly do not have a place in my nice performance-oriented car. No Autos for me, when fun should be a factor. A friction clutch, even if it someday is computer controlled, is still a direct physical connection at all times, as long as it is engaged. Power directly from the pistons to the wheels. Gears, shafts, flywheels, et. al. are enough power sapping devices for me. I certainly don't need essentially a "fluidic damper" in the driveline.

[phuzaxeman]

"...An auto will beat the average 5MT driver, if the 5MT driver knows what he is doing he will not lose"

 

 

 

what? there are many avg drivers that know what they're doing. who would spend money on a 5MT legacy without knowing how to drive a standard?

[emorphien]

who would spend money on a 5MT legacy without knowing how to drive a standard?

sheepishly raises hand

 

 

tis my first manual car

 

I had a few crash courses before getting the car.

[SVXWRX]

i really like teh 5EAT, especially after having a 4HEAT in the SVX.

 

i'm really happy with the LGT, and i'm pretty glad i got it instead of the STi. after a few more mods, it will be almost as fast, handle almost as good, and be a LOT easier to live with day-to-day driving and its WAY more comfortable (and upscale ).

 

an MT LGT wouldn't work with the wife, and i don't want to go through clutches with her driving it occaisionally.

 

so how's teh smell on those MT's, eh?

[phuzaxeman]

 

 

so how's teh smell on those MT's, eh?

 

 

i've never had the car clutch smell until i was on a very steep hill and put too much gas without engaging the clutch. it was honestly one time only and a product of some bad clutch driving.

[Ovcoursitsilver]

"Do you really hate your 5EAT and why?"

 

Nineteen pages later, (Why did I read the entire thread?) I don't think I read one post that stated he/she HATED the 5EAT.

 

Nineteen pages later, I am impressed that this thread has not degraded into name-calling and insults as I have seen on other threads when the MT vs AT question rears its ugly head. Though I have detected a similar somewhat snobish attitude from the purist MT ranks.

 

My humble input: I agonized for days over whether to buy my 05 LGT with the auto or manual. I really enjoy driving manual transmission cars. I feel more in control of the car. I love the feeling of coming into a corner at speed, breaking and downshifting, matching engine revs to road speed and exiting the corner with the engine at full song. But I bought the 5EAT.

 

Why?

 

1. I don't get to drive the kind of roads the allow me to fully enjoy a manual transmission very often; certainly not in my everyday use of the car. There's not much thrill involved in matching engine and road speed as you creep along in traffic or as you progress from one speed bump to the next.

 

2. The 5EAT does allow me to choose a gear that is appropriate for the particular road and conditions I find myself driving. I can't wait to try the buttons out on one of those twisty coubtry roads where you can leave it in second or third and saw away at the sterring wheel while balancing the gas and brakes.

 

3. My wife can take over and drive the car with confidence (she can drive a manual, just doesn't like to) if I get too tired.

 

4. After the small cars I have driven over the past 35 years, most of which were manuals, I find the LGT limited is a very quite, comfortable, luxurious vehicle that also goes like stink when I want it to. I didn't buy it just for its performance.

 

5. In case I really yearn for the fun of a manual transmission, I have a little red 5-spd two-seater roadster parked in my garage. It is one of the best driver's cars ever built, with amazing balance in handling and power and one of the best shifting manual transmissions.

 

Lucky, aren't I?

[stewthebassman]

Hi there Silver,

 

Welcome to the board! It's great to have another Montrealer around! I started the thread because Melayout and one other fellow were saying they wish that had bought the Manual instead....so I thought I'd ask....19 pages later, I'm surprised the thread is still alive!

 

I totally agree with all your points. The way Auto technology is going I wouldn't be surprised if more and more people buy well made auto/manual trannies in coming years (okay I've been reading on the BMW M6 with 11 modes and six speeds...). I think the 5EAT is perfect for my needs. Do you know that the thumbshifters even work when you're in standard Auto mode? Then it goes back into Auto after a few seconds if you don't thumbshift again!

[melayout]

I'm not hatin against why or how you use the 5EAT.

 

After 11 months and 30k miles, I have to admit the 5EAT will never be as smooth, precise, or connected as a 5MT. I don't like the 5EAT because I had the option to get a cheaper and stock-wise more powerful 5MT but more importantly those boy racers breaking 5MTs on the WRX turned me away.

[Mblock66]

Well it is all a personal thing but I wouldn't regret your purchase. You can always play the what if I bought game and it will drive you crazy. The fact is that you don't know if you would have enjoyed the MT either.

 

I was on the fence with my purchase too but I went Auto for a lot of reasons. No it isn't the fastest option but the 5EAT can also hold a lot of power. So modding it up isn't a problem and you can technically still make it as fast as your wallet lets you.

 

As far as 1/4 dragging is concerned, the 5EAT in a highly modded setup will win if you install a kick @ss tq converter. But that probably isn't what most really want to do. If it is a how fast the 5EAT is vs the MT then I wouldn't worry so much. Keep modding.

 

If it is a connection with the car then the best you can do is use manual mode all the time now or take the hit and trade it in for a leftover 05 MT or 06 MT.

[Ovcoursitsilver]

... Do you know that the thumbshifters even work when you're in standard Auto mode? Then it goes back into Auto after a few seconds if you don't thumbshift again!

 

No, I didn't. I've only had the car for 5 weeks and I've been ill for the past two so I haven't even gotten it broken in yet, but that's an entirely different thread. I'll give it a try next chance I get. I was just getting used to the delay when shifting down for corners.

[stewthebassman]

And the fun is when you figure out the engine's shift from natural to boost...it's like a whole new set of gears! I love using the buttons to downshift two gears to get some killer acceleration to pass!!!

 

Melayout...you've never been "hatin"...you're too mellow a guy and a charter member of LGT.com! I started the post using that word, but it was a little strong, I guess.

 

Strange, I'm at 5000 miles in two months and my mileage is improving!! I'm in Sport mode a lot, and I'm hammering the pedal...what gives???

[melayout]

stewwwy - stop kissing ass, you're makin me look bad, heheee

 

I would think with increased ambient temperatures => less dense air => less fuel is metered/injected => less fuel consumption.

[stewthebassman]

stewwwy - stop kissing ass, you're makin me look bad, heheee

 

I would think with increased ambient temperatures => less dense air => less fuel is metered/injected => less fuel consumption.

 

Ha ha, I'd hate to spoil your bad-ass reputation!

 

 

So it isn't my fantastic 5EAT that is to credit for my great mileage...hmmm I thought so!

[Scotty]

I started hatin automatic transmissions since I found out how they work, specifically torque converters.

 

I hope you don't ever start looking at how inefficient internal combustion engines are.

[IwannaSportSedan]

The thing about internal combustion engines is that even though they are inefficient, they are readily available.

 

If the industry can produce a viable alternative that is as powerful or more, more energy efficient, safe to use, and efficient in terms of space, weight and costs to buy and maintain, and has support structure, like parts availability and fuel readily accessible pretty much anywhere... then I'll be convinced.

 

Compared to batteries' and electric motors' weight, volume, and replacement costs, petroleum fueled IC engines are pretty efficient in terms of how much it costs, and how much space it takes up, and how much it weighs (which affects how much energy it has to use to move itself.)

 

specific output isn't the only measure of efficiency.

[robbie12]

I'm not hatin against why or how you use the 5EAT.

 

After 11 months and 30k miles, I have to admit the 5EAT will never be as smooth, precise, or connected as a 5MT. I don't like the 5EAT because I had the option to get a cheaper and stock-wise more powerful 5MT but more importantly those boy racers breaking 5MTs on the WRX turned me away.

 

One of the reasons why I am selling my WRX.

[godwhomismike]

"Do you really hate your 5EAT and why?"

 

Nineteen pages later, (Why did I read the entire thread?) I don't think I read one post that stated he/she HATED the 5EAT.

 

Nineteen pages later, I am impressed that this thread has not degraded into name-calling and insults as I have seen on other threads when the MT vs AT question rears its ugly head. Though I have detected a similar somewhat snobish attitude from the purist MT ranks.

 

My humble input: I agonized for days over whether to buy my 05 LGT with the auto or manual. I really enjoy driving manual transmission cars. I feel more in control of the car. I love the feeling of coming into a corner at speed, breaking and downshifting, matching engine revs to road speed and exiting the corner with the engine at full song. But I bought the 5EAT.

 

Why?

 

1. I don't get to drive the kind of roads the allow me to fully enjoy a manual transmission very often; certainly not in my everyday use of the car. There's not much thrill involved in matching engine and road speed as you creep along in traffic or as you progress from one speed bump to the next.

 

2. The 5EAT does allow me to choose a gear that is appropriate for the particular road and conditions I find myself driving. I can't wait to try the buttons out on one of those twisty coubtry roads where you can leave it in second or third and saw away at the sterring wheel while balancing the gas and brakes.

 

3. My wife can take over and drive the car with confidence (she can drive a manual, just doesn't like to) if I get too tired.

 

4. After the small cars I have driven over the past 35 years, most of which were manuals, I find the LGT limited is a very quite, comfortable, luxurious vehicle that also goes like stink when I want it to. I didn't buy it just for its performance.

 

5. In case I really yearn for the fun of a manual transmission, I have a little red 5-spd two-seater roadster parked in my garage. It is one of the best driver's cars ever built, with amazing balance in handling and power and one of the best shifting manual transmissions.

 

Lucky, aren't I?

 

 

You forgot another advantage of the 5EAT - it doesn't have a stinky clutch like the 5MT does