undecidedbuyer Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Check out the Honda DualNote, this is exactly what that car provides. If it had been on the market today, even at $60K, that's what I would have bought instead of the LGT (almost got the '05 RL but could not talk myself into that much for a gas burning only car). My take is the DualNote is the design and chassis study for the '08 Acura RL. In the meantime, Subaru showed a Miata class (B9SC) two seater with a boxer driving front wheels and electrics for rear. Also very cool. But it had the horrible new corporate nose on it that would guarantee I'd not be caught dead in it. Please tell me that ugly nose is not going to be used in the 06 / 07 legacy. If they do make it look like that i will steer clear of Subaru dealerships from now on. Volvo S40 here I come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt_ltd Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 06 looks exactly the same as 05. This Space For Rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewthebassman Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Please tell me that ugly nose is not going to be used in the 06 / 07 legacy. If they do make it look like that i will steer clear of Subaru dealerships from now on. Volvo S40 here I come. Ha ha, first BMW screws up the 3 series design and now Subaru may screw up their whole line too...I'll have to buy an Avalon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoldonSubie Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Ha ha, first BMW screws up the 3 series design and now Subaru may screw up their whole line too...I'll have to buy an Avalon. :-) Cars do have a way of growing on you though. When the 01 v70 came out I hated it compared to the prior model, now I love it. Same with the current BMW 5 series. Now that one is starting to grow on me. Will the same happen with the b9, I'm not so sure.......The GT/OBXT turbo + an MT may change my mind though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I saw the tribeca the other day at van bortel subaru (ok maybe 2 weeks ago). A bit weird seeing it in person but it wasn't that bad. The interior is certainly nice. I think it will grow on me as have many of the other more daring redesigns in the past 6 or 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeFlyIsTheEye Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I like my 5EAT- it's one of the best I've driven and besides it's designed by Prodrive too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommunist Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Check out the Honda DualNote, this is exactly what that car provides. If it had been on the market today, even at $60K, that's what I would have bought instead of the LGT (almost got the '05 RL but could not talk myself into that much for a gas burning only car). My take is the DualNote is the design and chassis study for the '08 Acura RL. In the meantime, Subaru showed a Miata class (B9SC) two seater with a boxer driving front wheels and electrics for rear. Also very cool. But it had the horrible new corporate nose on it that would guarantee I'd not be caught dead in it. that's quite the engine in the dualnote - not sure how they'd get that kind of fuel econ with that kind of power as well as make the people in the backseat not go nuts from having a 3.5L V6 right behind them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 All-right, as my plea went on deaf ears...... Here's my two-cents, from this thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13177&page=1&pp=10 I totally bought the stickshift as I thought it was just more fun to row through the gears myself. Screw traffic deadlocks - I had an ACT 2600 with a push rated at 43 lbs. on my TSi, and I didn't mind traffic (for those who think I'm nuts - I used to do a lot of martial arts back when I was younger, more limber, and a lot less fatter! that helps...the other part that helps is that for the past few years, I've had to rely on my left leg a lot as my right ankle has been giving me some problems. So my left leg is 2x that of "normal human," and my right leg is - well - let's just say that it looks like my dads? ). For me, it's all about being one with the car - being more mechanically connected to Winky as she's motoring down the road. But that said, there's almost equal fun to be had in a well-designed slushbox in trying to get it to do exactly what you want, when you want. It's a game of driver-vs-machine instead of being one with the machine, in my humble view, though. But honeslty, it's fun, too. I think that if I ever have to switch to an auto, a TRUE semi-auto (with complete auto capability), along the lines of BMW's SMG, would be what I'd prefer as a compromise. But until that day, as long as I can have some fun, I'll row myself, thank yee. I don't think any less of enthusiasts who either must use (whether by physical handicap or by limited drivetrain choices) or choose to use (be it out of frustration of everyday traffic or simply out of enjoyment) slushboxes. Similarly, I don't think more of any moron who chooses a manual. I respect the driver, not the machine he/she chooses. -A PS: As to whether or not I feel the 5MT makes me more aggressive..... I honestly don't think that it does - at least not me, personally. As another LGT-brother described, I'll sometimes catch myself downshifting - and then think better of the situation. Whereas in the wife's 4EAT WRX I just mash the pedal to the carpet, in Winky, the conscious decision to drop a gear often gives me just enough time to calm down and -NOT- respond in-kind to another's act of displaced and misplaced rage. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevmac Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 It's very interesting reading this thread from over here in Ireland. On this side of the pond if you buy a performance car then you must get the MT version or you won't be able to sell it later on. Our roads are very twisty and we have no space for many extensive motorways (freeways) so manuals are the norm on most cars. The only car I have heard off that completly pairs its auto transmission to the engine is the seven-speed M5 and now BMW is going back on its word and introducing a MT version for the U.S. market. Subaru need to upgrade their boxes to at least six-speed to catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommunist Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 All-right, as my plea went on deaf ears...... As another LGT-brother described, I'll sometimes catch myself downshifting - and then think better of the situation. Whereas in the wife's 4EAT WRX I just mash the pedal to the carpet, in Winky, the conscious decision to drop a gear often gives me just enough time to calm down and -NOT- respond in-kind to another's act of displaced and misplaced rage. excellent point - when you have to actually down shift to really get crankin' you are much less apt to go for it. I generally cruise around in my car at about 2000 rpm - while I do have some power it would either take me a second to get serious power if I just mashed on it or I would have to downshift. either of these will give me that all important 1/2 second to stop and not be a 'tard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronix Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Just to clear up the shift time issue. The automatic shifts faster than a manual transmission. period. From the time the computer actually engages the shift until the gear is engaged IS indeed faster than the time any human engages the clutch shifts, and lets go and hits the gear. The confusion lies in the lag. When you hit the stick, or the button to shift the automatic, there is a lag up to around 3-400rpm's before the car actually engages the shift. there is no loss of power in between. after a couple weeks of driving it, you know the lag.. you shift 400rpm's before redline, and it kicks in perfect right before fuel cutoff. therefore the lag is unimportant. the automatic shifts extremely fast, and because of that, you do not see a drop in rpms from the shift itself. unlike when you shift a manual, as soon as you start to engage the clutch. you can feel the car jolt and see the rpm's drop before you hit that next gear. You can sit at the drag strip all day long and listen to the cars and you can always tell a manual from an auto. the auto shifts fast and smooth. When you are driving next to a car being manually shifted you can see the shifts plain as day. clutch starts to engage, car drops back, gear selected, car jumps back forward. Is the manual a faster car? well the guy who claims he is "old school" and old school says the manual is always faster, must not be very old. Those of us who own 60's muscle cars know that is not always true. Those guys who own twin turbo Supra's know this is not true.. there are many many exclusions to this rule. however. in the case of the Legacy GT. yes the manual is a little faster than the "manumatic". This argument is always stupid. having both manual and auto's my whole life, there are DEFINITE advantages in both. Racing included. The advantages over the legacy GT and your "average automatic" are that a) the gearing is very close to the same as the manual. Normally automatic transmissions have very TALL gears, which slows it down massively. b) normally an auto has fewer gears. C) you can shift it yourself. normally you cant do that in an automatic. comparing the manual to the auto in real "auto" mode is night and day comparing the manual to the auto in "manual" mode. If you want to see huge differences in manual/auto study your automatic celica vs your manual, or your auto civic vs the manual. THOSE have a huge difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. This one, and many other applications.. such as many of the auto V8's.. (see WS6 or GTO) see very little if any difference in those times. One thing I do notice is.. Why is there more hatred coming from manual guys towards EAT owners than EAT guys? whats the beef? Back to the subject. from reading the replies therin I do not see this group of people who want to trade thier EAT for a manual. there may be one out of 20? but not "many". If this car had a regular automatic trans like most cars have theres no way in hell I would have bought it. but it doesnt. If everyone is happy with what they have then forget about it. we are all proud GT owners. -Tronix(dont become nazioc)GT for more pics and info... http://angevine.org/legacy/legacy.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoldonSubie Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Just to clear up the shift time issue. The automatic shifts faster than a manual transmission. period. From the time the computer actually engages the shift until the gear is engaged IS indeed faster than the time any human engages the clutch shifts, and lets go and hits the gear. The confusion lies in the lag. When you hit the stick, or the button to shift the automatic, there is a lag up to around 3-400rpm's before the car actually engages the shift. there is no loss of power in between. after a couple weeks of driving it, you know the lag.. you shift 400rpm's before redline, and it kicks in perfect right before fuel cutoff. therefore the lag is unimportant. the automatic shifts extremely fast, and because of that, you do not see a drop in rpms from the shift itself. unlike when you shift a manual, as soon as you start to engage the clutch. you can feel the car jolt and see the rpm's drop before you hit that next gear. You can sit at the drag strip all day long and listen to the cars and you can always tell a manual from an auto. the auto shifts fast and smooth. When you are driving next to a car being manually shifted you can see the shifts plain as day. clutch starts to engage, car drops back, gear selected, car jumps back forward. Is the manual a faster car? well the guy who claims he is "old school" and old school says the manual is always faster, must not be very old. Those of us who own 60's muscle cars know that is not always true. Those guys who own twin turbo Supra's know this is not true.. there are many many exclusions to this rule. however. in the case of the Legacy GT. yes the manual is a little faster than the "manumatic". This argument is always stupid. having both manual and auto's my whole life, there are DEFINITE advantages in both. Racing included. The advantages over the legacy GT and your "average automatic" are that a) the gearing is very close to the same as the manual. Normally automatic transmissions have very TALL gears, which slows it down massively. b) normally an auto has fewer gears. C) you can shift it yourself. normally you cant do that in an automatic. comparing the manual to the auto in real "auto" mode is night and day comparing the manual to the auto in "manual" mode. If you want to see huge differences in manual/auto study your automatic celica vs your manual, or your auto civic vs the manual. THOSE have a huge difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. This one, and many other applications.. such as many of the auto V8's.. (see WS6 or GTO) see very little if any difference in those times. One thing I do notice is.. Why is there more hatred coming from manual guys towards EAT owners than EAT guys? whats the beef? Back to the subject. from reading the replies therin I do not see this group of people who want to trade thier EAT for a manual. there may be one out of 20? but not "many". If this car had a regular automatic trans like most cars have theres no way in hell I would have bought it. but it doesnt. If everyone is happy with what they have then forget about it. we are all proud GT owners. -Tronix(dont become nazioc)GT Tronix: Great reply. Your description of the lag is great. Sure, when you put it that way, the computer is faster than I am. However, if you go from driver input (sport-shift) to the actual shift the time is painfully slow if you are used to doing it yourself. BTW, no hatred intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeLoo Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I love my car but I always keep thinking how much more fun the 5MT would be. To me, it was a compromise that I had to do for my wife. As for performance, I couldn't care less which is faster (I'm sure the 5MT is), it's all about the pleasure and feeling you get when driving a car. IMO, a 5MT adds enjoyment to the ride vs. a 5EAT. 2005 Legacy GT Wagon Ltd 5EAT Garnet Red 1999 GTI VR6 Black - sold but not forgotten... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurpman Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 One thing I do notice is.. Why is there more hatred coming from manual guys towards EAT owners than EAT guys? whats the beef? -Tronix(dont become nazioc)GT The purists always harbor more resentment towards the non-purists than the other way around. Some of my other hobbies include rock climbing and powerlifting, and it's the same way in those activities. Traditional outdoor climbing vs. sport climbing, unequipped powerlifting vs. equipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 The purists always harbor more resentment towards the non-purists than the other way around. Some of my other hobbies include rock climbing and powerlifting, and it's the same way in those activities. Traditional outdoor climbing vs. sport climbing, unequipped powerlifting vs. equipped. I've found it goes both ways, the guys that favor the new things bash on the older technology which is just as good in its own ways compared to the new. Each wins in some categories, loses in others. It's the same thing in computers (mac vs pc for media) and photography (film vs digital, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undecidedbuyer Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 :-) Cars do have a way of growing on you though. When the 01 v70 came out I hated it compared to the prior model, now I love it. Same with the current BMW 5 series. Now that one is starting to grow on me. Will the same happen with the b9, I'm not so sure.......The GT/OBXT turbo + an MT may change my mind though. No. That will never grow on me. The B9 Tribecca is nasty worst then the ugly @ss Pontiac Aztek http://a137.g.akamai.net/n/137/3538/20031229190757/www.cars.com/features/autoshows/2004/detroit/coverage/images/subaru_b9_scrambler_front_430.jpg Notice that Subaru doesn`t have many pictures of the Tribecca on their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm3 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I think the B9 scrambler concept is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I love my 5EAT Legacy GT LTD. I still wouldn't take it with a 5MT, and I have owned my 5EAT for about a year now. - Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Are the gear ratios the same for the AT and MT? Regardless, the main issue is driver engagement vs. traffic hassle. Personally I feel much more connected to the car in a MT, and I can live with the traffic hassle. Others may not. DSG sounds great, but I wonder if it gives you the same feel as a regular manual, as far as regulating power with the clutch through corners and whatnot. It's been years since I drove a sporty MT, but it sure was fun I driven an Audi TT 3.2 with the DSG transmission and will say it was an absolute thrill to drive. The DSG is by far the greatest automatic I've ever driven. I'd love to see how those Mercedes 7 speed automatics are, but that is way too rich for me - so maybe some years from now I'll see. I would love to drive an Audi A3 equipped with the DSG, especially after having driven an Audi TT 3.2 equipped with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 No not a TT, but i`ll wait for the A3 3.2 quattro to come out before replacing my current vehicle. The 2.0t is already impressing the press and current drivers let’s see if the 3.2 Quattro will live up to the hype. And hopefully stay under 35K. Possible coices: Audi A3 3.2- Audi A4 3.2-Most Expensive Infiniti G35X Subaru Legacy LTD 5EAT-cheapest Volvo S40 T5 AWD Volvo S60 AWD Volvo S60 R-Nicest enterior I strongly recommend test driving the Audi TT 3.2 (DSG), especially if your looking for an A3 with the DSG. If you live in NJ, beware of Bell Audi - see this thread why - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1469 I was set on getting a TT 3.2, but after the craptastic dealership experience and the fact that the LGT was just as quick and almost as comfortable for about $13K less, I went with the LGT. I really loved and still love the TT 3.2, especially the outstanding exhaust sounds and the amazing DSG transmission. That's why I recommend test driving the TT 3.2, because it'll probably be very similar to what the A3 3.2 DSG will be like. If you test drive it, let me know what you thought about it. - Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franklin Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Hate is such a strong emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewthebassman Posted June 14, 2005 Author Share Posted June 14, 2005 Hate is such a strong emotion. Indeed, this thread has inspired some truly passionate remarks.......fun, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 20 year old technology => 5MT && <5 year old technology => 5EAT && True => ( ( 5EAT > 5MT ) && ( 5EAT ()\/\/|\|2 5MT) ) QED I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 20 year old technology => 5MT && <5 year old technology => 5EAT && True => ( ( 5EAT > 5MT ) && ( 5EAT ()\/\/|\|2 5MT) ) QED Some of your posts have really begun to prove how silly you can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trm Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 no one mensioned tranmission power loss whatsoever... that's the main reason why traditional auto is slower than manual, speed wise. more power is going through the transmission in manual that overcome the small shifting time difference. Traditional auto is designed for comfort and convinience. but auto does provide the driver more concentration during spirited driving. Manual with computer controlled hydraulic shifting is the way to go (Sequencial Gear boxes), best of both worlds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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