Do you really hate your 5EAT and why?

[AKLGT]

wow 3 pages of manny tranny vs auto tranny. i have the 5eat in my lgtl and so far i love it. i do miss the manny tranny (in all my previous cars) when i want to rev up the engine and let her rip. but since i do so much city driving, it's actually nice to give my left foot a rest yet, still be able to shift gears when i want to. i don't think auto breeds laziness, it really is more of a personal preference or what your needs are. my vibe gt was 6 spd manny tranny and i ate, wrote notes, shifted, and talked on the phone all at the same time..... so i figure the auto tranny is safer for everyone! lol.

[AKLGT]

Couldn't have said it any better. I ended up buying a 5EAT with the exact same perspective. Having been biased towards manuals all my life, the 5MT is more fun, but the flexibility and performance of the 5EAT more than make up for it. If I had the budget, I'd get one of each, but in real life 5EAT>5MT for many folks.

 

Also, one other reason for going with 5EAT was that Subaru didn't offer the 6MT with the LGT. Reinforced or not, the 5MT is still based on a 20-year old design.

Ken

 

if they'd offer a 6 MT in the LGT, it would have been a completely DIFFERENT story!!!

[Boxer2Blower]

This is my reply from another thread and I find it equally relevant here. I can't believe this topic keeps coming up, seems like the 5mt guys just can't drop it

 

---

I've been an ardent supporter of manual transmissions for my entire life. Even before I was driving I snobbishly looked down at friends parents who had automatics. All my cars to this point at age 29 have been manuals. My last car, a 98 RS had a lightened flywheel and was a joy to drive, when driving aggresively.

 

Then I had a rental car, a crappy sentra that was automatic, I noticed I was much calmer in traffic and commuting when operating that vehicle. I liked that. I also enjoyed the fact that my left leg wasn't getting an unbalanced workout compared to nothing for my right. You see I am a competitive cyclist and need to keep strength balanced in my lower limbs for optimal performance. Also after 100 mile rides or big races, clutching for hours coming home is a major PITA. These are all lifestyle factors that influenced my decision for a 5eat in my new GT wagon.

 

I have found in my test drives that the manual mode gives me the best of both worlds concerning transmission dynamics. Yes I lose some power, and takeoff is slower, but the difference is truly negligible for anyone but those competing in their vehicles. If that is important to you a 5mt is the way to go, however if you just enjoy a quick well balanced vehicle the score becomes much closer. I believe that manual mode auto shifts are actually faster than the 5mt can hope to be even with the best driver. It may seem slow but that view can be easily skewed as you are not doing anything after requesting the shift, whereas in a 5mt you must clutch etc, down shifting when compared with a double clutching technique is definitely faster in 5eat.

 

So really it is about what makes you happy. If you want the fastet 0-60 go 5mt, absolutely, however from a roll things begin to get a lot closer. Certainly close enough to elicit a similiar seat of the pants feel, which is all that is important to me as I am not racing and will not street race. So the comparisons are physical in nature as to my reactions to the dynamics of the car which are very close once moving.

 

I experienced this today. I had my STI in to get the infamous rear strut clunk fixed and had a Legacy Wagon (2.5i) for the day. I LOVE THIS CAR! I drive all day, everyday, and only in City traffic. I can only have one car, and after 2 WRX's, and then a MB w/ a 6MT, I went to the STI (one of my dream cars for as long as I can remember...seriously). Well the terrible Philly roads, the shifting, personal stress, and maintenance on the STI are getting to me. I think I will go for a 5EAT....my first auto....very soon....in an Outback 2.5 XT L. I will go w/ silver w/ LGT sport grill and a set of Prodrive wheels!

[stewthebassman]

This is great, obviously a lot of passion for our trannies, eh? Interesting to see how many people are using an auto for the first time in many years...that's why we're in Legacies I think, it's the perfect compromise between boy racer and responsible citizen...the AT allows us to be both as well!

[stewthebassman]

Couldn't have said it any better. I ended up buying a 5EAT with the exact same perspective. Having been biased towards manuals all my life, the 5MT is more fun, but the flexibility and performance of the 5EAT more than make up for it. If I had the budget, I'd get one of each, but in real life 5EAT>5MT for many folks.

 

Also, one other reason for going with 5EAT was that Subaru didn't offer the 6MT with the LGT. Reinforced or not, the 5MT is still based on a 20-year old design.

 

Here's some interesting reading: http://www.subaru-global.com/about/parts/05.html

 

 

Between the issues I had with my Forester S 5MT and all the problems you read about at NASIOC with the WRX, I just didn't want to find out how it would hold up with a 250HP engine.

 

Ken

 

Good reading Ken, thanks for the link!

[undecidedbuyer]

Manual Transmissions are slowly dying out.

Look at the new Audi DSG tranny it is actually faster than the manual.

 

06 A3 2.ot Dsg 0-60 6.8 sec

6spd 0-60 7.2 sec

 

I can`t wait for the 3.2 quattro dsg. You gt 5mt drivers will be seeing taillights, all night long.

[gt_ltd]

u getting a tt dsg?

[emorphien]

Manual Transmissions are slowly dying out.

Look at the new Audi DSG tranny it is actually faster than the manual.

 

06 A3 2.ot Dsg 0-60 6.8 sec

6spd 0-60 7.2 sec

 

I can`t wait for the 3.2 quattro dsg. You gt 5mt drivers will be seeing taillights, all night long.

I expect to see them disappear, but it's not happening yet.

 

And plenty of people will probably be disappointed. Some will love it, some won't care!

[Colonel Angus]

as long as the love for manual transmission is out there and the mental connection between manual transmission and 'real' driving is out there, it will be a while before the masses will resign to technology completely replacing it. that feeling of complete control - engaging the clutch, dropping it to the next gear, then dumping the clutch; those feelings that make the driver feel more involved, and in tune with the car... that'll be very hard to compete with.

 

but then again, it's past 2am and i'm out of it, so might i digress...

[JonFo]

The 5EAT is a marvel of Computer control. With the tight integration between tranny and engine CPU’s, the shifts are quick, the revs optimized and the run from 5mph to 60 is faster than my WRX 5MT can muster.

Launches are the only issue in a 5EAT if you are looking for the ultimate in a drag racing.

Torque braking is one technique that works well, just don’t overcook the ATF if you do this a lot. An aftermarket tranny cooler is a must if you have an aggressive driving style.

 

I’m actually wondering if there is a hidden ‘launch’ mode sequence in the software. I’d love to be able to hold down a button (say the ‘minus’ shift button on the wheel), hold the brake, bring revs above 2,500 and then let go of brake and button at the same time and have the CPU’s optimize the tranny pressures and settings along with the engine RPM’s and boost to maximize the run through first gear.

 

If not there stock, this would be a hot ‘aftermarket’ feature to add. It’s just software. Which is one of the reasons auto’s will continue to progress faster than MT’s as there are many tricks one can do with automation that are much more reliable (and faster) than relying on the driver to get it right.

This is the same reasoning why we don’t manually adjust the ‘Choke’ or the spark advance on our engines anymore

[stewthebassman]

The 5EAT is a marvel of Computer control. With the tight integration between tranny and engine CPU’s, the shifts are quick, the revs optimized and the run from 5mph to 60 is faster than my WRX 5MT can muster.

Launches are the only issue in a 5EAT if you are looking for the ultimate in a drag racing.

Torque braking is one technique that works well, just don’t overcook the ATF if you do this a lot. An aftermarket tranny cooler is a must if you have an aggressive driving style.

 

I’m actually wondering if there is a hidden ‘launch’ mode sequence in the software. I’d love to be able to hold down a button (say the ‘minus’ shift button on the wheel), hold the brake, bring revs above 2,500 and then let go of brake and button at the same time and have the CPU’s optimize the tranny pressures and settings along with the engine RPM’s and boost to maximize the run through first gear.

 

If not there stock, this would be a hot ‘aftermarket’ feature to add. It’s just software. Which is one of the reasons auto’s will continue to progress faster than MT’s as there are many tricks one can do with automation that are much more reliable (and faster) than relying on the driver to get it right.

This is the same reasoning why we don’t manually adjust the ‘Choke’ or the spark advance on our engines anymore

 

Ha ha, I remember the choke on my aunt's Sunbeam back in the sixties...I thought she was so sool 'cause she knew how to work it! And now I still have a choke on all my garden tractor. The M3 has a secret launch device. It's interesting to hear the comparisons between an '04 WRX and the Legacy GT.

[WayneM]

Interesting thread! I decided to buy the GT auto - after 25 years of driving manual trannys. Curiously, the quickest car I ever owned had an auto. In the 60's (yeah, I'm a geezer), I had a '33 Ford coupe with a Dodge super stock (426 Stage III wedge) and a Torqueflite trans (modified with a 3000 rpm stall converter and manual valve body). The car would run high 12's @ 117 on street tires and would eat most 427 4-speed 'Vettes for lunch. So, high performance automatics are not really all that new. Each has its virtues - I'm finding that I really like not having to row the shifter in traffic any more. Back in the day, we had the same arguements. Funny how some things never change. What has changed, however, is that high performance is now much more accessible and user friendly. Fast cars aren't beasts to drive anymore.

[Scotty]

Manual Transmissions are slowly dying out.

Look at the new Audi DSG tranny it is actually faster than the manual.

 

06 A3 2.ot Dsg 0-60 6.8 sec

6spd 0-60 7.2 sec

 

That's because it is a computer controlled manual gearbox. A computer will beat a human in shifting a manual gearbox. If you were to compare the DSG gearbox with the Tiptronic gearbox, the Tiptronic (conventional automatic gearbox) will be slower.

 

The future of the transmission industry is to go towards computer controlled manual gearboxes. Before, it was expensive technology only auto racing can afford. By going with a computer controlled manual gearboxes, the manufactures don't have to stock two completely different drivetrains. The manual gearboxes are also more effecient than a conventional auto gearbox.

[undecidedbuyer]

u getting a tt dsg?

 

No not a TT, but i`ll wait for the A3 3.2 quattro to come out before replacing my current vehicle.

 

 

The 2.0t is already impressing the press and current drivers let’s see if the 3.2 Quattro will live up to the hype. And hopefully stay under 35K.

 

 

Possible coices:

 

Audi A3 3.2-

 

Audi A4 3.2-Most Expensive

 

Infiniti G35X

 

Subaru Legacy LTD 5EAT-cheapest

 

Volvo S40 T5 AWD

 

Volvo S60 AWD

 

Volvo S60 R-Nicest enterior

 

[emorphien]

I think computer controlled manuals are a good way to go. We'll hopefully see only those and CVTs. They computer controlled manuals have the advantage of efficiency and speed of a manual system over a traditional auto, and speed and convenience over a traditional manual. You can run full auto or use it as a real manual (- the clutch bit).

 

CVTs will probably be the only other major transmission type available as time passes.

 

In the mean time though neither is ready for every car yet. Be they too expensive, fragile, can't handle enough power or whatever reason someone can come up with. I don't really expect to see them take over completely for another decade.

[gringo]

manual vs auto for daily driving:

 

void Leg_gt::tranny_select( tranny_type tranny )

{

switch( tranny )

{

case 5MT:

_driver_control++;

_driver_engagement++;

_driver_fun++;

_is_annoying_to_drive_in_traffic = true;

 

// do to worrying about rev matching and stuff

_driver_skill > good ? _driver_concentration_on_road -= 2 :

_driver_concentration_on_road -= 6;

 

_driver_skill > good ? _inline_performance += 3 : _inline_performance -= 5;

_driver_skill > good ? _cornering_performance += 1 : _inline_performance -= 6;

break;

case 5EAT:

_driver_control--;

_driver_engagement--;

_driver_fun--;

_is_annoying_to_drive_in_traffic = false;

_driver_skill > good ? _inline_performance += 1 : _inline_performance -= 1;

_driver_skill > good ? _cornering_performance += 1 : _inline_performance -= 1;

break;

}

}

 

As far as the best type of transmission goes, I think the SMG is the way to go for both performance and efficiency goes. Of course, you lose some fun factor unless the option for manual clutch is retained. (Note: I've never driven one). The *best* type of transmission for all around use is the Toyota hybrid CVT in the Prius, Escape and the Lexus RX400h. The lexus has a added electric motors in the rear for AWD. This setup is awesome because there is no slippage in the drivetrain, except at the front and rear LSDs. This could be eliminated too with by using two electric motors in the front with an open differential and two independent motors in the rear. http://www.lexus.com/models/hybrid/overview/innovation.html

 

I would like to see an AWD sports sedan hybrid setup with the main power going to the rear and the addt'l electric motors in the front. Again, you lose the fun factor, but you make up for it with increased performance and fuel efficiency. And the technology is way cool.

[gt_ltd]

No not a TT, but i`ll wait for the A3 3.2 quattro to come out before replacing my current vehicle.

 

The 2.0t is already impressing the press and current drivers let’s see if the 3.2 Quattro will live up to the hype. And hopefully stay under 35K.

 

i test drove an a3 2.0T 6mt with another member yesterday, even though i liked the transmission, wipers (sound very interesting according to the tech guy), rims and the moonroof, i can tell you that the interior space (especially 2nd row) is pretty small even compared to my japanese sedan, and with some options our test drive already carried a msrp of more than 30K. with 3.2l engine, dsg and awd, it will likely cost over 35k.

[Tommunist]

i test drove an a3 2.0T 6mt with another member yesterday, even though i liked the transmission, wipers (sound very interesting according to the tech guy), rims and the moonroof, i can tell you that the interior space (especially 2nd row) is pretty small even compared to my japanese sedan, and with some options our test drive already carried a msrp of more than 30K. with 3.2l engine, dsg and awd, it will likely cost over 35k.

 

yeah - the A3 is waaaaayyy overpriced IMO (as a VW/Audi enthusiast mainly I feel okay saying this in "rival" forum). with the 4door GTI V coming to the states (with the same engine and essentially the same tranny) I think the A3 will be a pointless vehicle. from a personal standpoint and after having seen both gti Vs (in Europe) and A3s in person I am suprised to say that I think the gti V is a more attractive vehicle. I didn't expect this from the pictures I had seen. My guess is there will be a few options available on the A3 that won't be on the GTI (but I also guess I wouldn't want those options anyway). But honestly the biggest and greatest thing about these new Audis/VWs is FSI - the 2.0T is fairly powerful (~200hp, ~200ft-lb of torque) and still gets over 30mpg on the highway and mid 20s in the city. This kind of performence to mpg ratio will most likely win me over for my next car - now all they need to do IS GET THE F'ING GTI OVER HERE!!!!! (ROAR!!!!!!)

[rc0032]

manual vs auto for daily driving:

 

void Leg_gt::tranny_select( tranny_type tranny )

{

switch( tranny )

{

case 5MT:

_driver_control++;

_driver_engagement++;

_driver_fun++;

_is_annoying_to_drive_in_traffic = true;

 

// do to worrying about rev matching and stuff

_driver_skill > good ? _driver_concentration_on_road -= 2 :

_driver_concentration_on_road -= 6;

 

_driver_skill > good ? _inline_performance += 3 : _inline_performance -= 5;

_driver_skill > good ? _cornering_performance += 1 : _inline_performance -= 6;

break;

case 5EAT:

_driver_control--;

_driver_engagement--;

_driver_fun--;

_is_annoying_to_drive_in_traffic = false;

_driver_skill > good ? _inline_performance += 1 : _inline_performance -= 1;

_driver_skill > good ? _cornering_performance += 1 : _inline_performance -= 1;

break;

}

}

 

As far as the best type of transmission goes, I think the SMG is the way to go for both performance and efficiency goes. Of course, you lose some fun factor unless the option for manual clutch is retained. (Note: I've never driven one). The *best* type of transmission for all around use is the Toyota hybrid CVT in the Prius, Escape and the Lexus RX400h. The lexus has a added electric motors in the rear for AWD. This setup is awesome because there is no slippage in the drivetrain, except at the front and rear LSDs. This could be eliminated too with by using two electric motors in the front with an open differential and two independent motors in the rear. http://www.lexus.com/models/hybrid/overview/innovation.html

 

I would like to see an AWD sports sedan hybrid setup with the main power going to the rear and the addt'l electric motors in the front. Again, you lose the fun factor, but you make up for it with increased performance and fuel efficiency. And the technology is way cool.

:lol:

[meathead]

No not a TT, but i`ll wait for the A3 3.2 quattro to come out before replacing my current vehicle.

 

 

 

The 2.0t is already impressing the press and current drivers let’s see if the 3.2 Quattro will live up to the hype. And hopefully stay under 35K.

 

 

 

Possible coices:

 

Audi A3 3.2-

 

Audi A4 3.2-Most Expensive

 

Infiniti G35X

 

Subaru Legacy LTD 5EAT-cheapest

 

Volvo S40 T5 AWD

 

Volvo S60 AWD

 

Volvo S60 R-Nicest enterior

 

Only the LGT will keep you under 35K. Been there, done that, good luck.

[gurpman]

Are the gear ratios the same for the AT and MT?

 

Regardless, the main issue is driver engagement vs. traffic hassle. Personally I feel much more connected to the car in a MT, and I can live with the traffic hassle. Others may not.

 

DSG sounds great, but I wonder if it gives you the same feel as a regular manual, as far as regulating power with the clutch through corners and whatnot.

 

It's been years since I drove a sporty MT, but it sure was fun

[Tommunist]

Are the gear ratios the same for the AT and MT?

 

Regardless, the main issue is driver engagement vs. traffic hassle. Personally I feel much more connected to the car in a MT, and I can live with the traffic hassle. Others may not.

 

DSG sounds great, but I wonder if it gives you the same feel as a regular manual, as far as regulating power with the clutch through corners and whatnot.

 

It's been years since I drove a sporty MT, but it sure was fun

 

since there is no clutch the DSG should feel a lot like any other manual except you can shift a lot faster as it has the "on deck" system going for it.

[SoldonSubie]

Manual Transmissions are slowly dying out.

Look at the new Audi DSG tranny it is actually faster than the manual.

 

06 A3 2.ot Dsg 0-60 6.8 sec

6spd 0-60 7.2 sec

 

I can`t wait for the 3.2 quattro dsg. You gt 5mt drivers will be seeing taillights, all night long.

 

Not quite.

 

6.4 seconds to 62mph (100k) in Europe. A little slower than an OBXT or an LGT.

 

Go here for Euro data:

 

http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/range.jsp?section=/models/a3/a3sportback

 

Where I live Audi easily outsells BMW and MN combined, just as Subiar will outsell Totata and Honda.

 

So far i haven't had an Audi get close to my OBXT, 5MT, including gaggles of allroad 2.7t's and a few 4.2's, + all varieties of the a4.

 

Haven't met a current generation s4 yet though I hear the auto is equal to the LGT/OBXT MT and the MT in the s4 will pull away. It better with an extra 4 cyl.

[Tommunist]

Not quite.

 

6.4 seconds to 62mph (100k) in Europe. A little slower than an OBXT or an LGT.

 

Go here for Euro data:

 

http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/range.jsp?section=/models/a3/a3sportback

 

Where I live Audi easily outsells BMW and MN combined, just as Subiar will outsell Totata and Honda.

 

So far i haven't had an Audi get close to my OBXT, 5MT, including gaggles of allroad 2.7t's and a few 4.2's, + all varieties of the a4.

 

Haven't met a current generation s4 yet though I hear the auto is equal to the LGT/OBXT MT and the MT in the s4 will pull away. It better with an extra 4 cyl.

 

i never trust the numbers they give on 0-60 when comparing 2 diff cars - I'd wager the 3.2 DSG should compete pretty well - especially with no turbo lag (i know the LGT has very little but it's still there).

[JonFo]

manual vs auto for daily driving:

... [Cut cute code snippet]....

I would like to see an AWD sports sedan hybrid setup with the main power going to the rear and the addt'l electric motors in the front. Again, you lose the fun factor, but you make up for it with increased performance and fuel efficiency. And the technology is way cool.

 

Check out the Honda DualNote, this is exactly what that car provides.

If it had been on the market today, even at $60K, that's what I would have bought instead of the LGT (almost got the '05 RL but could not talk myself into that much for a gas burning only car).

 

My take is the DualNote is the design and chassis study for the '08 Acura RL.

 

In the meantime, Subaru showed a Miata class (B9SC) two seater with a boxer driving front wheels and electrics for rear. Also very cool. But it had the horrible new corporate nose on it that would guarantee I'd not be caught dead in it.