1stick3pedals Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thank you for your very clear and unemotional statement. It's good to be talking to the engineer on this topic. As you put it, for someone to put down $500 for a part that changes sound without power benefits must be quite emotionally attached to that outcome. I asked the initial question unaware that the header was designed for n/a cars wishing to emulate the turbo boxer sound, but that question was about its application on a car with an aftermarket turbo kit. As the designer, how do you think the header will effect the car given it has been turbocharged? Getting dynoed this afternoon. Stay tuned for the graph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stick3pedals Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 I know these have probably been answered, but I'm responding quick anyways. Haven't had a chance to get to the comp. since I mounted the headers. this was a custom header for the turbo kit? Ralli Sport's Header. http://www.rallisportracing.com/ 1stick3pedals - How hard was it to replace the headers? I'll have mine coming soon and want to make sure I know what I'm doing before I go pulling off the old ones. Is there anything I should know before pulling them off? Also what other exhaust components do you have? Are you currently running the AVO mufflers? Thanks, Mario For me the exhaust was a little of a pain thanks to the turbo piping. Without the additional pipes, it should not be difficult at all for the n/a crowd. I didn't have to, but if you experience a lot of salt in your area, make sure you use liquid wrench on the exhaust bolts before you attempt to loosen them. Oh and as far as the O2 sensors go, just disconnect the clips, and pull them out of the bracket off the engine. Remove them once the header is off the car. I think they use an 11/16" wrench. You can remove and install while the header is on the car, but it's just so much easier while the header is off. I'm running the AVO Turbo kit UP/DP, and SPT catback exhaust. sounds a bit loud for me... but the clearance for oil changes looks great! Also interested in what these run, what other exhaust components your running and how difficult is the install? lol I'm not sure on noise yet, haven't driven it enough. But I don't drive with music ever and it didn't bother me on my initial run. Exhaust specs above^^ i just went through this thread and i feel the same way. boost is very tempting. i'm at 89k miles. i should be right around 105k miles late spring/early summer so i'm kind of looking for ideas for my timing belt/rebuild/clutch/tune up. as of right now, motor is running strong, no oil burning issues, headgaskets are weeping, throwout bearing is making a little noise on very cold mornings, clutch also chatters a tiny bit then goes away. like N.sane, this is my DD that i will keep for a really long time. has to be reliable, quiet, run on regular, and get decent gas mileage. so i was just going to get everything cleaned up, replace headgaskets, clutch, TOB, etc etc whatever. also thought about cams, headers, and tune just to add a little spice and efficiency. but 1stick3pedals you're awesome and this thread is awesome, and at the back of my mind i want to be awesome LOL. Thanks!! I would advise away from the cams because they cost the same amount as the turbo kit, but you have to take apart the engine to install them. Also you only gain about 20-30whp opposed to 75 for the same price! I've had the turbo kit for 6000 miles and no issues. I love my car and will be keeping it forever, hence the reason I have gone the route I have with my mods. *edit* I'm also averaging 24-26 mpg mixed driving, hovers around 25mpg for mostly hwy and some city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stick3pedals Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Updated post 1 on the 1st page of this thread, should have all the exhaust components I'm running listed there for future reference. I'll post back tonight with the results of the dyno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stick3pedals Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Results are in. I lost 7whp and lost 6wtq. The car feels the same, it's slightly louder. Some quirks the car had before have actually gone away. So despite the loss in power, I think I'm going to run these for a while. The biggest loss is above 4500 rpm where I don't go very often. On the positive side, peak boost is reached sooner. Lower end torque/power is better too. I can't feel the difference, and I don't race the car. So losing a couple ponies isn't the end of the world for me. As far as I can tell, it's just as fast as before despite the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptown4784 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Nice stuff, might have to steal some of your ideas. It sucks I don't know.how to install these things lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 This is a case of a very simple misunderstanding, which I am going to clear up right now, so this awesome thread can get back on track. These are my headers. I designed them, I make them. These are a purpose built UEL header meant to be a direct bolt on solution to achieve boxer rumble on the 06+ 2.5i As of now, this is the only header on planet earth that does so. I know how to make a header designed for power, this is NOT my attempt at such. I'll repeat that: This is meant as a sound mod, NOT as a performance mod. I'll take a zero loss in power as a victory and if it makes a couple more ponies, all the better. Now, you may be scratching your head wondering why the hell anyone would pay over five hundred dollars to purposely go from a EL design to a UEL design just for sound. Well, that is a debate that has been going on for years and is a very polarizing subject. I'll tell you this much, there is a huge demand for such a thing. What it boils down to is personal preference. Yes thank you for the simplistic answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Results are in. I lost 7whp and lost 6wtq. The car feels the same, it's slightly louder. Some quirks the car had before have actually gone away. So despite the loss in power, I think I'm going to run these for a while. The biggest loss is above 4500 rpm where I don't go very often. On the positive side, peak boost is reached sooner. Lower end torque/power is better too. I can't feel the difference, and I don't race the car. So losing a couple ponies isn't the end of the world for me. As far as I can tell, it's just as fast as before despite the numbers. Not far off from what we talked about I was hoping for zero loss and a shift in peak HP and TQ slightly to the left. This is the first data set of Mikes headers and the AVO kit together. When you were logging how where you AFRs and spool affected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stick3pedals Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Not far off from what we talked about I was hoping for zero loss and a shift in peak HP and TQ slightly to the left. This is the first data set of Mikes headers and the AVO kit together. When you were logging how where you AFRs and spool affected? Spool was sooner by a couple hundred rpms. AFRs went from mid 12s to mid 13s. I'll post the graphs once they get published online. My max psi was 6.0 in the original tune, yesterday it was apparently 5.8. So this could account for a couple ponies lost in addition to the header. So I think if the MBC is properly adjusted to 6.0 and tuned with the new header it could potentially be closer to 200 again. At this point though, I'm still about 70whp over stock, so I'm going to enjoy it as is, and enjoy the reliability! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Spool was sooner by a couple hundred rpms. AFRs went from mid 12s to mid 13s. I'll post the graphs once they get published online. My max psi was 6.0 in the original tune, yesterday it was apparently 5.8. So this could account for a couple ponies lost in addition to the header. So I think if the MBC is properly adjusted to 6.0 and tuned with the new header it could potentially be closer to 200 again. At this point though, I'm still about 70whp over stock, so I'm going to enjoy it as is, and enjoy the reliability!If you pull the AFRs back to where they should be (mid-12s) you will loose more power, but be safer... That is scary the headers shifted you that much and the ECU did not compensate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 If you pull the AFRs back to where they should be (mid-12s) you will loose more power, but be safer... That is scary the headers shifted you that much and the ECU did not compensate... Do you think our ECU is as dynamic as the EJ255 folk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Don't know. I thought it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm200 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Great thread and write up on your project! I was following the AVO kit for months while it was in development. Had ~3k miles left on my warranty before I was going to get one. . . then my car was t-boned and totalled : ( Fell into a GT afterwards but I sure do wish I got the chance to try one of these kits out on my car. Definitely a sleeper! Glad to see AVO got the kits together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Nice avatar I used to ride a YZ250 then i left two wheel for a Raptor 660R. I am still fond of the 2 stroke days however..*thinks about TRX250R;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradze Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 i hate sedans, i love my outback and as soon as its paid off id like to put this on. someone is currently trying to figure out a turbo to a 4th gen outback. i had a wrx years ago and i really miss that sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stick3pedals Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 i hate sedans, i love my outback and as soon as its paid off id like to put this on. someone is currently trying to figure out a turbo to a 4th gen outback. i had a wrx years ago and i really miss that sound. Is there a thread on the outback forums documenting that build you mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradze Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 it stopped 2 weeks ago, i wonder if he gave up http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/104-gen-4-2010-present/45410-quest-more-power-little-subbie.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stick3pedals Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 it stopped 2 weeks ago, i wonder if he gave up http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/104-gen-4-2010-present/45410-quest-more-power-little-subbie.html I saw only one picture, maybe he doesn't even have the whole kit yet. It may also need all new custom piping to fit the turbo. Still would be interesting to see how it turns out. I have an outback too that I'm going to upgrade one day. Not sure if I'm going to do a turbo 4 or an h6 yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpalumbo159 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I really want to put a kit on my 07 legacy there just so damn expensive! I've been lookin at the avo kit and it really seems like the best bang for the buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I really want to put a kit on my 07 legacy there just so damn expensive! I've been lookin at the avo kit and it really seems like the best bang for the buck It is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacesells Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 ugh i really wish this would fit a 5th gen legacy just got to wait for the car to age a little for stuff like this to show up i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 ugh i really wish this would fit a 5th gen legacy just got to wait for the car to age a little for stuff like this to show up i guess. It will probably fit the 5th gen the exhaust side of the 5th and 4th is the same if anything it would fit better with the roomier engine bay of the 5th gen. If any one is near (AVO) Seattle area and owns a 5th Gen 2.5i contact Paul (apexjapan) im sure they would love to do a test fit of the piping and turbo placement. There is a growing 5th Gen 2.5i market out there Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I really want to put a kit on my 07 legacy there just so damn expensive! I've been lookin at the avo kit and it really seems like the best bang for the buck The best bang for your buck is to sell your 2.5i and buy a GT. Don't let anyone tell you differently. The total cost of this kit + supporting mods is more than the difference in cost between a 2.5i and a GT. Now if you're just a glutton for punishment and want to fiddle with your car, then by all means, continue on lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Nice avatar I used to ride a YZ250 then i left two wheel for a Raptor 660R. I am still fond of the 2 stroke days however..*thinks about TRX250R;) I had a Fourtrax TRX250R 1987 model bought it for 1700 new sold it for 3600 10 years later. Boy I wish I still had that thing. Every now and then you find a low hour MINT on ebay for about 3500 or so. Used to go sand duning in Oklahoma. Boy I miss those days, im 44 now and have great memories of that with my father and friends. Sorry for the thread jack a bit..... By the way NICE build and also nice to see your Father involved with the build. Great, nice clean job you guys did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby2.5 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 The best bang for your buck is to sell your 2.5i and buy a GT. Don't let anyone tell you differently. The total cost of this kit + supporting mods is more than the difference in cost between a 2.5i and a GT. Now if you're just a glutton for punishment and want to fiddle with your car, then by all means, continue on I have a GT (XT) and my buck and bang is way more than that. Once you start, no matter, you cant stop!!!!!! I say enjoy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I had a Fourtrax TRX250R 1987 model bought it for 1700 new sold it for 3600 10 years later. Boy I wish I still had that thing. Every now and then you find a low hour MINT on ebay for about 3500 or so. Used to go sand duning in Oklahoma. Boy I miss those days, im 44 now and have great memories of that with my father and friends. Sorry for the thread jack a bit..... By the way NICE build and also nice to see your Father involved with the build. Great, nice clean job you guys did. Yeah ours (my Brother and I shared most of the mechanical toys) end with destroyed top end and bent front end. Multiple crashes, failed jumps, lack of proper fuel mixing knowledge (this was 1989-92) if only we knew that some advocacy group would deem them "deadly" we would have maintained it better. And for that matter the LT500 dammit two strokes and your insane top ends... ah the late 80's and early 90's Quads * sighs thinks of CR500r dirt bikes Oh uh, GREAT BUILD I like you r current setup from the wheels to the turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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